Hi,

I have been trying to come up with some rules for running an Epic level campaign starting at level 20, using DDB. 

Can I get your thoughts on these? 

Character Building 

All characters are the Chosen of their God or Goddess.  You have been invested with a portion of the divine power of your God or Goddess, and as such have been raised above the level of other mortals.  You are now far more than you were -- more than you could have ever been, but you are still mortal.

• Use Variant Encumbrance rules.
• Ignore coin weight.
• All characters get a free feat.
• Take the max HP for your character (do not roll or use the average)

The following is allowed:

• Multiclass characters
• Homebrew (only after DM review).

The following is NOT allowed:

• Noncore Content
• Critical Roll

Ability Score Generation

We are using a modified point buy system.

You will have to use the manual method on DDB, put 3 into all ability scores and then override the ability scores -- this is a limitation of the DDB character creator.

• Ability Score Base = 0 (all ability scores).
• Point Pool = 110 points.
• DO NOT apply any racial modifiers.  
• All ability scores MUST be at least 10, and no ability score can be above 30.
• You must choose the Feat option for all ASIs.

Equipment Rules

Characters can equip the following types of permanent (not consumable) items during character creation:

• 1 legendary item
• 1 very rare item
• 1 rare item
• 2 uncommon items

When creating your character, you can take the following items:

• Weapon
• Armour
• Sheild
• Spellbook (spell casters only)
• 1 Bag of holding 
• 2000 gold pieces

All other items and gear MUST be purchased within game. 

Character Advancement

You start at level 20, as the Chosen of your God or Goddess, and your character will advance at the following levels.

• Level 30 - Exarch - You become an Exarch of your chosen God or Goddess
• Level 40 - Divinity - You will finally ascend to Godhood, as Ao will grant you your own divine portfolio -- you will also get a Divine Domain.

At each of those levels, you will receive a power boost: 

At level 30:

• Add 4 points to your Point Pool
• Add 10 HP to your max HP
• Take 1 Feat

You will also get 10 Power Points.  You can spend Power Points to improve your rolls.  Power Points refresh on a Long Rest, and you will have to use the Notes (Other) section of your sheet to track Power Points.  

You can spend Power Points to modify rolls, turning a failed roll into a success.  

At level 40:

• Add 6 points to your Point Pool
• Add 20 HP to your max HP
• Take 1 Feat
• Proficiency in 1 saving throw of your choice

You also gain all benefits of your Divine Domain.  

You also gain an additional 10 Power Points, bringing you up to 20 Power Points.  

Obviously DDB is not designed for going above level 20, as the level cap for 5e is supported to be 20 -- these rules that I have produced are meant to get around the limitations of DDB capping characters at 20th level.  The Level 40 Divine Domains will use homebrew (although they will just be copies of the benefits that Gods get while within their domain), as stated within official Forgotten Realms lore.  

What do you think?

Thanks

XD

I'm curious what sort of feedback you would like.

I mean, this is your game -- you understand the structure of it far better than any of us could.

Is it that you want to know if we would use these ideas ourselves? I wouldn't, but that doesn't make the ideas bad -- I already have a fairly standard set of progression that is simple and allows for continued growth beyond 20, but it is baked into the setting I use.

Is it for gaps in CC process? I don't see any. I would do a lot of things very different, however -- but none of that changes the value here to you. For example, I would assign magical items to them myself. I would also be having to create some spell books (not too hard, since I would be rolling, but still time consuming) because spells have to be found in my world.

Neither of which changes the basis or rationale for wha tyou have done.

SO, I'm confused.

Quote from AEDorsay >>

I'm curious what sort of feedback you would like.

I mean, this is your game -- you understand the structure of it far better than any of us could.

Is it that you want to know if we would use these ideas ourselves? I wouldn't, but that doesn't make the ideas bad -- I already have a fairly standard set of progression that is simple and allows for continued growth beyond 20, but it is baked into the setting I use.

Is it for gaps in CC process? I don't see any. I would do a lot of things very different, however -- but none of that changes the value here to you. For example, I would assign magical items to them myself. I would also be having to create some spell books (not too hard, since I would be rolling, but still time consuming) because spells have to be found in my world.

Neither of which changes the basis or rationale for wha tyou have done.

SO, I'm confused.

It was mostly the viability that i was curious about, and whether it seemed playable.  Is it viable, or would it make the game unplayable?  

Especially because I have tried to work around the limitations of the DDB character creator, without needing to create a lot of homebrews, (although I am still going to have to create some for level 40). 

I had thought about making those who needed a spellbook, have to acquire it within game, but then I changed my mind, as we would assume if they are level 20 characters they would already have spellbooks.  

Quote from TWForgeCleric >>

Quote from AEDorsay >>

I'm curious what sort of feedback you would like.

I mean, this is your game -- you understand the structure of it far better than any of us could.

Is it that you want to know if we would use these ideas ourselves? I wouldn't, but that doesn't make the ideas bad -- I already have a fairly standard set of progression that is simple and allows for continued growth beyond 20, but it is baked into the setting I use.

Is it for gaps in CC process? I don't see any. I would do a lot of things very different, however -- but none of that changes the value here to you. For example, I would assign magical items to them myself. I would also be having to create some spell books (not too hard, since I would be rolling, but still time consuming) because spells have to be found in my world.

Neither of which changes the basis or rationale for wha tyou have done.

SO, I'm confused.

 

It was mostly the viability that i was curious about, and whether it seemed playable.  Is it viable, or would it make the game unplayable?  

Especially because I have tried to work around the limitations of the DDB character creator, without needing to create a lot of homebrews, (although I am still going to have to create some for level 40). 

I had thought about making those who needed a spellbook, have to acquire it within game, but then I changed my mind, as we would assume if they are level 20 characters they would already have spellbooks.  

IT looks viable to me -- I mean, I've run a lot of high end campaigns (albeit at the end of a long one, lol), and that seems like it could work quite well. 

Depends what you mean by "viable". You are likely going to have to homebrew every creature they fight to turn them into a challenge but if you want to do that then you can create something that will challenge any character. Create a creature with +20 to hit and 6 disintegration attacks each round. Create opponents with 1000 or 2000 hit points, 6 attacks, each causing 50 hit points of damage on average. A party of these demi-gods would likely walk over Demogorgon and other iconic high CR creatures with ease.

Basically, anything is "viable" if you want to come up with appropriate challenges for your game world. If you want the characters to be "viable" using published monsters then it still works but since they won't have any combat challenges (unless there are other demigods out there for them to contend against) then the campaign would need to be mostly social and politics as the characters try to gather worshippers to drive their ascension to godhood.

You will likely want to check through the capstone abilities of classes to work out which ones might have dodgy combinations you might want to avoid!

I would also consider what the players will likely do with these next 20 levels. A Fighter would not likely want to sink any levels into anything martial as the Extra Attack features will be wasted. I kinda see level 20 as being the peak - you can't get more attacks as a fighter, more wildshapes as a druid, more powerful spells as a wizard, and so on by gaining levels. So they will be building a second character on top of the first, which means they will likely not use the low-level features of their other class very often. Why would a level 20 moon druid/level 1 bard use a low-level bardic inspiration to give someone +1d4 on a DC30 saving throw (the sort of thing they would be facing) when they could instead wildshape into an elemental using their bonus action?

I can't see anything wrong with your ideas, mind you, I just don't think I would want to play an epic level game, because I would struggle to see the benefits of progression. You'd need hundreds of thousands of XP, to become a level 1 rogue. I appreciate you could start as level 10 in two classes, but it would still feel like slow progress to gain what could be gained by starting a new campaign!

Thoruk's post made me think of something, as well.

So, um, why do you feel a need to run at higher than 20th level? 

I do massive, sprawling campaigns that take years to complete, even playing twice a month. From level 17 to 20, the kinds of things you are talking about are the kinds of things that they are dealing with. 

I have a complete set of classes for my new world that are based in that world. All of them have a set series of additional capabilities they get, and everything increases by level, blah blah. It is all very much just flat out sitting there -- so there is an easy way for me to go beyond 20th level (and in the next campaign, I expect them to reach 21, because they have to stop a war that has the potential to erase people from the planet).

I had 20th level characters face off against a Demon Lord (think the highest possible rank of demonic entity ever) in order to prevent the beastie from ending all of reality in my last game.

Now, I am not saying this to make you change your mind. Nor am I saying you shouldn't do what you want.

I am just saying that the reason you want to play that high may need to be looked at, and if it is a good reason for you, go for it.

I used to run 1e games with level 60 and higher characters. A 20th level 5e character is more powerful than they were (well, once you stripped the magic items off them, lol).

Those super high level games are still achievable with the current 20 "cap". 

Just for my own personal curiosity, why do you allow homebrew but not Critical Role content? Surely that's just homebrew but with a bit more consistent balancing, yeah?

Quote from VanZoeren >>

Just for my own personal curiosity, why do you allow homebrew but not Critical Role content? Surely that's just homebrew but with a bit more consistent balancing, yeah?

To be frank,

I have a general dislike of it, I don't own any of the books, and I don't want to buy them.  

It is not some mad scheme or anything. 

:D