I need ideas on breadcrumbs to leave my party so that they can deduce the veiled threat they are facing is a dragon, and (perhaps) kill it in subsequent adventures. In my world, a dragon is extremely powerful and my party is toast if they perform a frontal assault. I really want them to have a chance to kill it and want to scatter some ideas in the world they could use to do so. (There other options will be to flee the town when the dragon destroys it and/or sue for peace, which may be the wiser options!) I believe that players are the ones responsible for solving problems I create (part of the fun for both sides) but I think for a challenge of this magnitude requires a few hints or least environmental weapons for them to use.
The dragon is a female black dragon named Saphiras. She has high HP/AC, spells, magic resistance, breath weapon and special attacks that are extremely tough. She is fond of eating river alligators from the river that runs through this town. The alligators are 10-25 feet long. She lives in a swampy area upriver from the town and the party found a 10' alligator tail in the river last time with huge puncture marks; she eats the heads and bodies but doesn't like the tails. I have not written much more about her yet.
As far as environmental weapons, I thought about siege weapons in the town. Balloons, like the ones the Allies used on D-Day to prevent aircraft from flying near the beaches. Poisoning an alligator and feeding it to the dragon.
Again, would love ideas on revealing that she is the ultimate enemy in the upcoming town siege AND ideas on defeating her.
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Velstitzen
I am a 40 something year old physician who DMs for a group of 40 something year old doctors. We play a hybrid game, mostly based on 2nd edition rules with some homebrew and 5E components.
The way dragon of ice spire peak does it is by having the dragon take over an orc base and then the orcs are scattered around the surrounding region. They also have monsters like manticores attack towns because they were driven out of their home.
Some other things you could do is
evidence of dragon attacks like large dead alligators or destroyed caravans covered in acid
rumors of a great treasure in the swamp spread
A swamp hag conspires to be rid of the dragon. Either they encourage people to find it or help make an anti dragon weapon or weaken the dragon with a curse
An anti dragon magic item exists some where. Either burried in a grave or in possession of a noble ( like a shield of acid resistance, dragon scale mail or a dragon slayer sword)
Building on what the post above me said, besides obvious acid damage, they could find sonething like the corpse of an animal that died from a fall in a place there is no high ground to hint at a flying enemy.
You could also take advantage of the fact that powerful dragons actively change the environtment around their lair or give the dragon a group of minions (kobolds or lizardmen) that begin raiding the area to increase its hoard. When questioned, they mention that their boss will eat them if they don't pay their quota. They could try to subvert one of the lizardmen as spy if they are obeying reluctantly to the dragon.
Clues of the dragon could include a reptilian-like smell or heavy sounds of wings flap right before the party arrive, huge clawed tracks partially left on the ground that end abruptly, traces of a huge creature that laid in the tall grass, black scale, large patch of vegetation burned by acid, carcasse of animals stuck by large bite, claw or acid burn. I would also look for Regional Effects of Adult Dragon Dragon for inspirations with plants starting to grow thick and twisted, nearbywater sources becoming fouled or light fog starting to appeear.
These are all good ideas, especially regarding alluding to the dragon's existence! I will definitely incorporate some when we play this Wednesday.
Any more ideas on environmental weapons or strategies to defeat the dragon would be welcome. I like the idea of a long lost epic weapon.
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Velstitzen
I am a 40 something year old physician who DMs for a group of 40 something year old doctors. We play a hybrid game, mostly based on 2nd edition rules with some homebrew and 5E components.
A basic story telling idea is just that the dragon represents something and the weapon represents something that defeats that thing. So for example a dragon with powers of rust and decay needs to be challenged by something that doesn't rust or decay. So a sword made of a precious metal like mithril ( magic silver) which represents purity and doesn't rust.
There are allot of options for this kind of story. Dnd Black dragons represent things like
Destruction and decay
The ruin of civilizations
Corruption, evil and hatred.
Pollution
Darkness
You will see related things in their description and abilities. So anything that is a negation to those will work as a foil .
Growth, healing, rebirth and building negate destruction and decay. So think phoenix, something the party has to build, something with healing powers ect...
History, perseverance and descendants overcome the ruin of civilization. So think long lost artifacts, ancient secrets, descendants of a lost city, something defensive like a shield or a test of endurance
Purity, love, faith, devotion and goodness over come corruption. So think holy weapons, chosen ones pure of heart or weapons that represent a relationship like something made by a friend of the dragon
Caring for nature over comes pollution. So think ents, the creatures of the forest or the blessing of a druid.
Light and knowledge overcome darkness. So think holy weapons, secret spells or flaming weapons
You just emphasize one of the themes of the dragon by using that ability often and possibly given them more related ones and similarly emphasize the negating theme of the weapon. These negations are also not hard rules as all of these ideas somewhat relate to each other in a variety of ways that are culturally dependent and very malleable. So fire can both represent destruction and negate it because fire obviously destroys things but is also associated with natural cycles of rebirth, important things for life like warmth and also is a key feature of industry representing innovation. It's also not the only way to set up a story it's just a very simple one that centers the dragon really obviously
If you want something more specific I'd have to know what you want to focus on with the black dragon .
One of my player is a paladin so emphasizing holiness and righteousness would be possible. I am thinking they may unearth an ancient artifact in the chaos of the destruction of the city. They help evacuate some priests and the priests carry as many valuables as possible from the temple. One item is a relic suit of armor, sword, lance, etc that the priests ask them to use to vindicate them against the dragon. If you want to go darker, perhaps a priest is killed in the escape and his blood is captured by one of his brothers. He blesses it and it can then be used as a healing/resistance to acid potion(s) by the party.
I do have some druids in a nebulous "nearby forest grove." (I rarely flesh things out that are not in active play). They might be able to assist in some way as well.
I don't have many more details about the dragon. She lives a few hundred miles upriver in a tributary. She is big and mean and has a small orc army at her disposal. Like the druid grove, most of her life is out of sight and out of mind. Open to suggestions though! ;)
I am a 40 something year old physician who DMs for a group of 40 something year old doctors. We play a hybrid game, mostly based on 2nd edition rules with some homebrew and 5E components.
Maybe the Black Dragon took over and corrupted a magical spring, which is affecting the region. Then the players find away to temporary push back the corruption (with a Relic as you suggested or by having a holy man/maiden pray at the source while they fight the dragon) and that causes the environtment to become hostile to the dragon. Or the Druids do a ritual to the same purpose (first option makes the river damage the dragon if it is wet, second turn the trees against it to ground it or help block her breath weapon)
These are the ideas I accumulated from yall so far on how to foreshadow the dragon's pending attack
Foreshadowing Saphiras existence:
A: The paladin has a vision from his god,
B: Dark slimy water begins to foul the river.
C: More large animal carcasses are seen floating in the river
D: Fisherman see huge “snake” in the river (actually, her tail and back)
E: She raids a farming community and a few survivors seek shelter at Riverfast, bearing a tale of woe.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Velstitzen
I am a 40 something year old physician who DMs for a group of 40 something year old doctors. We play a hybrid game, mostly based on 2nd edition rules with some homebrew and 5E components.
If she took over a tribe of orcs as you said, those should probably appear before the confrontation with the dragon too. Maybe some scouting parties that might make comments about their boss.
I had a similar campaign many moons ago and a similar challenge of trying to set a powerful dragon villain that the group should rightfully fear to simply face in combat and that its a villain for them to pursue but not fight until they are ready.
What I did in that campaign is I spent the first couple of sessions introducing them to a heroic group of adventure mercenaries called "The Bone Company". These guys effectively took the group under their wing as apprentices, training them, introducing them to important people, going out drinking with them and befriending them, and giving them gear. I made sure to show off how powerful the Bone Company was, filling the players with legendary stories of Bone Companies past heroics.
By the third session, the dragon did a raid on a nearby village and so The Bone Company goes off to the rescue. They invite the party to be observers of their heroics and to help them with carrying gear for the caravan etc.. I made sure they got into a couple of fights before the dragon so that they could see the Bone Company in action, specifically so that the players could see how powerful they were.
Then on the 4th session, it was time for the big dragon fight. I made sure the players had a good view of the battle so that they could see The Bone Company engage the dragon. From an overlooking bluff the bone company met the dragon at the foot of its lair. With spells and weapons, they engaged the dragon and then I mercilessly killed them all using rules as written in front of the players in two rounds of combat leaving them with nothing but the smoldering ashes of Bone Company. No tricks, no fudging or cut-scenes, just a straight-up fight round for round, tit-for-tat fight so that they could witness the carnage first hand.
From that point forward, the players had absolutely no doubt about how powerful this dragon was. They spent the rest of the campaign trying to figure out a way to stop the dragon without having to fight it.
Very nice. I may borrow similar ideas. A few of my NPCs may have to bite the dust so they can see her maliciousness and power.
They watched the captain of the town guard absolutely slice through some thugs two adventures ago and they know he is tough. He may have to be the fall guy.....
I had a similar campaign many moons ago and a similar challenge of trying to set a powerful dragon villain that the group should rightfully fear to simply face in combat and that its a villain for them to pursue but not fight until they are ready.....
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Velstitzen
I am a 40 something year old physician who DMs for a group of 40 something year old doctors. We play a hybrid game, mostly based on 2nd edition rules with some homebrew and 5E components.
If she took over a tribe of orcs as you said, those should probably appear before the confrontation with the dragon too. Maybe some scouting parties that might make comments about their boss.
Yes, the orcs are wearing her symbol on their shield and it is branded on their shoulder. (Directly borrowed from LOTR of course!)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Velstitzen
I am a 40 something year old physician who DMs for a group of 40 something year old doctors. We play a hybrid game, mostly based on 2nd edition rules with some homebrew and 5E components.
One of my player is a paladin so emphasizing holiness and righteousness would be possible. I am thinking they may unearth an ancient artifact in the chaos of the destruction of the city. They help evacuate some priests and the priests carry as many valuables as possible from the temple. One item is a relic suit of armor, sword, lance, etc that the priests ask them to use to vindicate them against the dragon. If you want to go darker, perhaps a priest is killed in the escape and his blood is captured by one of his brothers. He blesses it and it can then be used as a healing/resistance to acid potion(s) by the party.
I do have some druids in a nebulous "nearby forest grove." (I rarely flesh things out that are not in active play). They might be able to assist in some way as well.
I don't have many more details about the dragon. She lives a few hundred miles upriver in a tributary. She is big and mean and has a small orc army at her disposal. Like the druid grove, most of her life is out of sight and out of mind. Open to suggestions though! ;)
If you have a dragon who hated the city for it's piousness and wanted to wipe all memory of it from existence then a holy artifact that survived from that city is a great counter to them. If the artifact itself is tied to the cities history and represents a pious lineage for example an item once belonging to an ancient hero then it would be a good counter to the dragon. You can also have a bit of historical echo if the artifact is tied to a story in the past like a hero defeating a great demon with the artifact to save the city.
As an update for those who are keeping score, I did indeed let the dragon destroy the city. It was very fun describing the chaos and wreckage, but painful because I spent a lot of time creating Riverfast, like a child smashing a Lego tower after spending 20 hours to build it. My players were wise enough to run when the invading army AND dragon attacked. Only my paladin hesitated, and only because he thought a paladin might go "down with the ship," even if he knew it hopeless. I guess they know my style!
The party grabbed a few NPCs as the city was being sacked and took a boat downriver to a tiny trading post; we ended it there. They voted to flip back to our other campaign next but it will be interesting to complete the dragon story line at some point.
As I muse about which way to go, I imagine that other refugees would be swimming, boating, walking to this tiny trading post (normal population 25) 100 miles downriver! This would create an unsolvable problem of how to feed and shelter that many people in such a small space. Although that may not be a epic storyline and reminds me of living in Houston when the hurricanes would show man at his worst (looting, etc). This would leave the door open for key NPCs who escaped the looting and ended up at the trading post as well. Maybe they build a new town here but eventually go back to Riverfast for vengeance on any of the conquerors who stayed behind. Perhaps one or two brought key items that would help the PCs eventually kill the dragon.
Thanks for the ideas above. More thoughts always welcome.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Velstitzen
I am a 40 something year old physician who DMs for a group of 40 something year old doctors. We play a hybrid game, mostly based on 2nd edition rules with some homebrew and 5E components.
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Hello everyone.
I need ideas on breadcrumbs to leave my party so that they can deduce the veiled threat they are facing is a dragon, and (perhaps) kill it in subsequent adventures. In my world, a dragon is extremely powerful and my party is toast if they perform a frontal assault. I really want them to have a chance to kill it and want to scatter some ideas in the world they could use to do so. (There other options will be to flee the town when the dragon destroys it and/or sue for peace, which may be the wiser options!) I believe that players are the ones responsible for solving problems I create (part of the fun for both sides) but I think for a challenge of this magnitude requires a few hints or least environmental weapons for them to use.
The dragon is a female black dragon named Saphiras. She has high HP/AC, spells, magic resistance, breath weapon and special attacks that are extremely tough. She is fond of eating river alligators from the river that runs through this town. The alligators are 10-25 feet long. She lives in a swampy area upriver from the town and the party found a 10' alligator tail in the river last time with huge puncture marks; she eats the heads and bodies but doesn't like the tails. I have not written much more about her yet.
As far as environmental weapons, I thought about siege weapons in the town. Balloons, like the ones the Allies used on D-Day to prevent aircraft from flying near the beaches. Poisoning an alligator and feeding it to the dragon.
Again, would love ideas on revealing that she is the ultimate enemy in the upcoming town siege AND ideas on defeating her.
Velstitzen
I am a 40 something year old physician who DMs for a group of 40 something year old doctors. We play a hybrid game, mostly based on 2nd edition rules with some homebrew and 5E components.
The way dragon of ice spire peak does it is by having the dragon take over an orc base and then the orcs are scattered around the surrounding region. They also have monsters like manticores attack towns because they were driven out of their home.
Some other things you could do is
Building on what the post above me said, besides obvious acid damage, they could find sonething like the corpse of an animal that died from a fall in a place there is no high ground to hint at a flying enemy.
You could also take advantage of the fact that powerful dragons actively change the environtment around their lair or give the dragon a group of minions (kobolds or lizardmen) that begin raiding the area to increase its hoard. When questioned, they mention that their boss will eat them if they don't pay their quota. They could try to subvert one of the lizardmen as spy if they are obeying reluctantly to the dragon.
Clues of the dragon could include a reptilian-like smell or heavy sounds of wings flap right before the party arrive, huge clawed tracks partially left on the ground that end abruptly, traces of a huge creature that laid in the tall grass, black scale, large patch of vegetation burned by acid, carcasse of animals stuck by large bite, claw or acid burn. I would also look for Regional Effects of Adult Dragon Dragon for inspirations with plants starting to grow thick and twisted, nearbywater sources becoming fouled or light fog starting to appeear.
These are all good ideas, especially regarding alluding to the dragon's existence! I will definitely incorporate some when we play this Wednesday.
Any more ideas on environmental weapons or strategies to defeat the dragon would be welcome. I like the idea of a long lost epic weapon.
Velstitzen
I am a 40 something year old physician who DMs for a group of 40 something year old doctors. We play a hybrid game, mostly based on 2nd edition rules with some homebrew and 5E components.
Basically do the opposite of the dragon
A basic story telling idea is just that the dragon represents something and the weapon represents something that defeats that thing. So for example a dragon with powers of rust and decay needs to be challenged by something that doesn't rust or decay. So a sword made of a precious metal like mithril ( magic silver) which represents purity and doesn't rust.
There are allot of options for this kind of story. Dnd Black dragons represent things like
You will see related things in their description and abilities. So anything that is a negation to those will work as a foil .
You just emphasize one of the themes of the dragon by using that ability often and possibly given them more related ones and similarly emphasize the negating theme of the weapon. These negations are also not hard rules as all of these ideas somewhat relate to each other in a variety of ways that are culturally dependent and very malleable. So fire can both represent destruction and negate it because fire obviously destroys things but is also associated with natural cycles of rebirth, important things for life like warmth and also is a key feature of industry representing innovation. It's also not the only way to set up a story it's just a very simple one that centers the dragon really obviously
If you want something more specific I'd have to know what you want to focus on with the black dragon .
I like these ideas. Thanks for the post.
One of my player is a paladin so emphasizing holiness and righteousness would be possible. I am thinking they may unearth an ancient artifact in the chaos of the destruction of the city. They help evacuate some priests and the priests carry as many valuables as possible from the temple. One item is a relic suit of armor, sword, lance, etc that the priests ask them to use to vindicate them against the dragon. If you want to go darker, perhaps a priest is killed in the escape and his blood is captured by one of his brothers. He blesses it and it can then be used as a healing/resistance to acid potion(s) by the party.
I do have some druids in a nebulous "nearby forest grove." (I rarely flesh things out that are not in active play). They might be able to assist in some way as well.
I don't have many more details about the dragon. She lives a few hundred miles upriver in a tributary. She is big and mean and has a small orc army at her disposal. Like the druid grove, most of her life is out of sight and out of mind. Open to suggestions though! ;)
Thoughts?
Velstitzen
I am a 40 something year old physician who DMs for a group of 40 something year old doctors. We play a hybrid game, mostly based on 2nd edition rules with some homebrew and 5E components.
Maybe the Black Dragon took over and corrupted a magical spring, which is affecting the region. Then the players find away to temporary push back the corruption (with a Relic as you suggested or by having a holy man/maiden pray at the source while they fight the dragon) and that causes the environtment to become hostile to the dragon. Or the Druids do a ritual to the same purpose (first option makes the river damage the dragon if it is wet, second turn the trees against it to ground it or help block her breath weapon)
These are the ideas I accumulated from yall so far on how to foreshadow the dragon's pending attack
Foreshadowing Saphiras existence:
A: The paladin has a vision from his god,
B: Dark slimy water begins to foul the river.
C: More large animal carcasses are seen floating in the river
D: Fisherman see huge “snake” in the river (actually, her tail and back)
E: She raids a farming community and a few survivors seek shelter at Riverfast, bearing a tale of woe.
Velstitzen
I am a 40 something year old physician who DMs for a group of 40 something year old doctors. We play a hybrid game, mostly based on 2nd edition rules with some homebrew and 5E components.
If she took over a tribe of orcs as you said, those should probably appear before the confrontation with the dragon too. Maybe some scouting parties that might make comments about their boss.
I had a similar campaign many moons ago and a similar challenge of trying to set a powerful dragon villain that the group should rightfully fear to simply face in combat and that its a villain for them to pursue but not fight until they are ready.
What I did in that campaign is I spent the first couple of sessions introducing them to a heroic group of adventure mercenaries called "The Bone Company". These guys effectively took the group under their wing as apprentices, training them, introducing them to important people, going out drinking with them and befriending them, and giving them gear. I made sure to show off how powerful the Bone Company was, filling the players with legendary stories of Bone Companies past heroics.
By the third session, the dragon did a raid on a nearby village and so The Bone Company goes off to the rescue. They invite the party to be observers of their heroics and to help them with carrying gear for the caravan etc.. I made sure they got into a couple of fights before the dragon so that they could see the Bone Company in action, specifically so that the players could see how powerful they were.
Then on the 4th session, it was time for the big dragon fight. I made sure the players had a good view of the battle so that they could see The Bone Company engage the dragon. From an overlooking bluff the bone company met the dragon at the foot of its lair. With spells and weapons, they engaged the dragon and then I mercilessly killed them all using rules as written in front of the players in two rounds of combat leaving them with nothing but the smoldering ashes of Bone Company. No tricks, no fudging or cut-scenes, just a straight-up fight round for round, tit-for-tat fight so that they could witness the carnage first hand.
From that point forward, the players had absolutely no doubt about how powerful this dragon was. They spent the rest of the campaign trying to figure out a way to stop the dragon without having to fight it.
Very nice. I may borrow similar ideas. A few of my NPCs may have to bite the dust so they can see her maliciousness and power.
They watched the captain of the town guard absolutely slice through some thugs two adventures ago and they know he is tough. He may have to be the fall guy.....
Velstitzen
I am a 40 something year old physician who DMs for a group of 40 something year old doctors. We play a hybrid game, mostly based on 2nd edition rules with some homebrew and 5E components.
Yes, the orcs are wearing her symbol on their shield and it is branded on their shoulder. (Directly borrowed from LOTR of course!)
Velstitzen
I am a 40 something year old physician who DMs for a group of 40 something year old doctors. We play a hybrid game, mostly based on 2nd edition rules with some homebrew and 5E components.
Yeah that works.
If you have a dragon who hated the city for it's piousness and wanted to wipe all memory of it from existence then a holy artifact that survived from that city is a great counter to them. If the artifact itself is tied to the cities history and represents a pious lineage for example an item once belonging to an ancient hero then it would be a good counter to the dragon. You can also have a bit of historical echo if the artifact is tied to a story in the past like a hero defeating a great demon with the artifact to save the city.
As an update for those who are keeping score, I did indeed let the dragon destroy the city. It was very fun describing the chaos and wreckage, but painful because I spent a lot of time creating Riverfast, like a child smashing a Lego tower after spending 20 hours to build it. My players were wise enough to run when the invading army AND dragon attacked. Only my paladin hesitated, and only because he thought a paladin might go "down with the ship," even if he knew it hopeless. I guess they know my style!
The party grabbed a few NPCs as the city was being sacked and took a boat downriver to a tiny trading post; we ended it there. They voted to flip back to our other campaign next but it will be interesting to complete the dragon story line at some point.
As I muse about which way to go, I imagine that other refugees would be swimming, boating, walking to this tiny trading post (normal population 25) 100 miles downriver! This would create an unsolvable problem of how to feed and shelter that many people in such a small space. Although that may not be a epic storyline and reminds me of living in Houston when the hurricanes would show man at his worst (looting, etc). This would leave the door open for key NPCs who escaped the looting and ended up at the trading post as well. Maybe they build a new town here but eventually go back to Riverfast for vengeance on any of the conquerors who stayed behind. Perhaps one or two brought key items that would help the PCs eventually kill the dragon.
Thanks for the ideas above. More thoughts always welcome.
Velstitzen
I am a 40 something year old physician who DMs for a group of 40 something year old doctors. We play a hybrid game, mostly based on 2nd edition rules with some homebrew and 5E components.