My players are a large group, which is good because at any moment 1-2 might not be able to join. But we'll have 6 as often as not, and I'm wondering what others have done to make encounters 1) scaled appropriately, and 2) not too bogged down with turns?
I'm thinking to add 1 extra mob, or level up mobs by 1-2 hit dice; for time, I figure like a 1-minute timer for each player. Thoughts, ideas?
Been running a game with 6 for about 2 years now. Action economy and HP are the 2 biggest things, so my standard combat treatment is:
Max HP for monsters
Extra mobs are good, but so are monsters with legendary actions that either grant extra attacks, engage other creatures, or influence the terrain somehow. Watch this video by Matt Colville, super useful.
1-3 legendary resistances depending on how powerful/important a monster is
For combat pacing, I do something weird at my table that started out experimental but has worked out really well. I group turns by I tying 2 PCs initiative to each other and having 2 PCs turns happen simultaneously. Basically what I do is bump the 2nd highest roll up to the 1st, the 4th highest roll up to the 3rd, and the lowest roll up to the 5th, and then I put the monsters between those groups based on where they roll. Then I make the players that share a turn figure out who goes first, and allow them to split their actions and movement up bouncing back and forth between one another. So a normal turn might look as follows:
PC1: I close the distance on the monster and attack
PC2: As she's rushing in I cast hold monster, hoping to paralyze it
Me: *rolls the saving throw first* It fails and is paralyzed, PC1, make your attacks with advantage, and it's a crit if you hit.
PC2: Great, and I'm going to use my movement to back up 30'
On the surface, it seems like the PCs gain pretty significant advantages by doing it this way, but I have found that their advantages are usually only marginal and I can always buff monsters a little bit more to balance it out. The downside is that combat is a little bit more chaotic, so I have slightly more to manage at any given time, but there's a HUGE benefit. I've noticed that players stay way more engaged as they plan for their next turn, since their only waiting for 3 turns to cycle instead of 6. Might be worth trying if you find that your combats really drag.
Hm, interesting initiative process. We'll give it a few tries on the usual, and if things are going slow I might work that in. One player I know is "engaged" but will distract themselves until their next turn (which, fair – with 6 people and however many mobs, it might be 10 minutes before they're up again!). Making it so PCs are paired and separated by mobs could cut that down.
Alright, so it sounds like for usual mobs (i.e. not bosses, just like a gang of thugs) adding a thug and/or max healthing is a way to go. I saw someone else's post on this topic from some time back and noted that fighting to the end is dumb so having non-boss mobs cut and run is a way to end fights too, with the potential for PCs to give chase.
Because this is most of the players' second game ever, I decided to keep it simple to PHB and for me the DMG and loosely SCAG. XgtE and TCE look fun but maybe for the future.
Been running a game with 6 for about 2 years now. Action economy and HP are the 2 biggest things, so my standard combat treatment is:
Max HP for monsters
Huh. I've actually been going through monsters and reducing hp while buffing offense, though that depends on what monsters you're dealing with (it's mostly for monsters that have a lot of toughness relative to offense; my target is dpr equal to 1/3 of effective hp). If I want to make a fight harder I'll just add more monsters or higher end monsters.
Been running a game with 6 for about 2 years now. Action economy and HP are the 2 biggest things, so my standard combat treatment is:
Max HP for monsters
Huh. I've actually been going through monsters and reducing hp while buffing offense, though that depends on what monsters you're dealing with (it's mostly for monsters that have a lot of toughness relative to offense; my target is dpr equal to 1/3 of effective hp). If I want to make a fight harder I'll just add more monsters or higher end monsters.
That's actually not so much about making it harder as it is keeping my monsters alive for more than 1 round (or on low initiative rolls simply keeping them alive until their turn). my party has a battlemaster fighter with 3 attacks, shadow monk/assassin rogue multiclass that usually autocrits on the first strike, totem barbarian great weapon master, oath of the ancients paladin, a moon druid, and a ranger with sharpshooter. Their dpr is insane, so keeping things alive past the 1st round is a challenge without a bigger HP pool
Try picking monsters that focus against your players strengths. At some point it will seem like your out for their blood but it really helps the players know their strengths and weakness'. If the barbarian is not playing add tanky enemies, if the wizards not playing add some casters. I switch up monsters but bring their stats down lower so players can get use to fighting things outside of their comfort zones. Eventually they'll just fight the correct stats for the creature.
Something that do is either double the bonuses to damage or reduce them to 0. That has turned out to be surprisingly well balanced and it’s something that I can do on the fly.
For example, if a monster does 1d6+3 damage I either make the damage 1d6+6 or 1d6 depending on the size of the party. It’s quick, simple, and it tends to work out surprisingly well.
That's actually not so much about making it harder as it is keeping my monsters alive for more than 1 round (or on low initiative rolls simply keeping them alive until their turn). my party has a battlemaster fighter with 3 attacks, shadow monk/assassin rogue multiclass that usually autocrits on the first strike, totem barbarian great weapon master, oath of the ancients paladin, a moon druid, and a ranger with sharpshooter. Their dpr is insane, so keeping things alive past the 1st round is a challenge without a bigger HP pool
What are you using? Remember to reduce the xp multiplier by 0.5 for a party of 6 -- at level 11, filling out 1/3 of your daily budget requires a CR 22 boss.
That's actually not so much about making it harder as it is keeping my monsters alive for more than 1 round (or on low initiative rolls simply keeping them alive until their turn). my party has a battlemaster fighter with 3 attacks, shadow monk/assassin rogue multiclass that usually autocrits on the first strike, totem barbarian great weapon master, oath of the ancients paladin, a moon druid, and a ranger with sharpshooter. Their dpr is insane, so keeping things alive past the 1st round is a challenge without a bigger HP pool
What are you using? Remember to reduce the xp multiplier by 0.5 for a party of 6 -- at level 11, filling out 1/3 of your daily budget requires a CR 22 boss.
Yeah I don't really run the game based on daily XP budgets at this point because it doesn't make sense for the style of play that the game is at currently. So for example, last session the party had 3 days of travel through the mountains and narratively the city they were going to was way more important than the "getting there" so I gave them 2 days of relatively eventless travel and 1 day with some challenges. The first combat was an ambush by 2 bulettes and then a behir joined in the middle of round 2, and then later on in the day I had an encounter on a cliffside mountain pass with a Harpy Matriarch, 3 other Harpys, and 2 Stone Giants high above chucking rocks down at the party. I find that interesting encounters like that 2nd one are more rewarding than throwing massive, damage-dealing monsters at them, and the HP buffs allows me to use monsters that the party would wipe easily and make sure that they stay alive long enough to make the encounter interesting.
Well, interestingly enough, this might be an entirely different - if easier - issue! My players have elected to go with 6 damage dealers of varying capacities, and no healing spells between the lot of them! That may change as they level but I wonder if maybe I'll discount them to being a group of 5 and start with max-HP the standard enemies array for 4 PCs; if too easy, add another enemy of the same or similar CR.
For a group that size, you must , you MUST, YOU MUST, give the monsters Legendary Actions and Legendary Resists. The players will simply bury your monster with Action Economy otherwise.
For a group that size, you must , you MUST, YOU MUST, give the monsters Legendary Actions and Legendary Resists. The players will simply bury your monster with Action Economy otherwise.
Or you can use multiple monsters. It's easier to balance for varying group size with multiple monsters anyway -- for each extra PC, add an extra monster. Though I advise splitting up their initiative even if they're all the same, having six monsters suddenly all go at once can be overwhelming.
For a group that size, you must , you MUST, YOU MUST, give the monsters Legendary Actions and Legendary Resists. The players will simply bury your monster with Action Economy otherwise.
Or you can use multiple monsters. It's easier to balance for varying group size with multiple monsters anyway -- for each extra PC, add an extra monster. Though I advise splitting up their initiative even if they're all the same, having six monsters suddenly all go at once can be overwhelming.
I originally went the route of "more monsters". In fact, the last big battle my crew encountered was 5 monsters, including the BBEG. But that being said, it is far far better to have the BBEG have LA's (as it did in this last fight), to smooth out any vagaries in the Initiative order, and to give the BBEG a fighting chance = tougher fight = more entertainment for players AND DM.
You can access the Basic Rules for Dungeons and Dragons Fifth Edition right here on DND beyond. Check out:
Chapter 13: Building Combat Encounters
Should have everything you need to get you going.
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Check out my Disabled & Dragons Youtube Channel for 5e Monster and Player Tactics. Helping the Disabled Community and Players and DM’s (both new and experienced) get into D&D. Plus there is a talking Dragon named Quill.
Have layered fights. Have an enemy join after round 2 or 3 depending on how they are doing. Once you get a handle on player skill and survivability up the ante. More mobs and higher cr creatures-players start punching above their level at 5(if not before).
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My players are a large group, which is good because at any moment 1-2 might not be able to join. But we'll have 6 as often as not, and I'm wondering what others have done to make encounters 1) scaled appropriately, and 2) not too bogged down with turns?
I'm thinking to add 1 extra mob, or level up mobs by 1-2 hit dice; for time, I figure like a 1-minute timer for each player. Thoughts, ideas?
The rules in Xanathar's Guide might help here, as those rules don't require you to recalculate xp budgets.
Usually I just bump up the health of monsters, but adding an extra mob or two is probably better at actually challenging the party.
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Been running a game with 6 for about 2 years now. Action economy and HP are the 2 biggest things, so my standard combat treatment is:
PC1: I close the distance on the monster and attack
PC2: As she's rushing in I cast hold monster, hoping to paralyze it
Me: *rolls the saving throw first* It fails and is paralyzed, PC1, make your attacks with advantage, and it's a crit if you hit.
PC2: Great, and I'm going to use my movement to back up 30'
On the surface, it seems like the PCs gain pretty significant advantages by doing it this way, but I have found that their advantages are usually only marginal and I can always buff monsters a little bit more to balance it out. The downside is that combat is a little bit more chaotic, so I have slightly more to manage at any given time, but there's a HUGE benefit. I've noticed that players stay way more engaged as they plan for their next turn, since their only waiting for 3 turns to cycle instead of 6. Might be worth trying if you find that your combats really drag.
"To die would be an awfully big adventure"
Hm, interesting initiative process. We'll give it a few tries on the usual, and if things are going slow I might work that in. One player I know is "engaged" but will distract themselves until their next turn (which, fair – with 6 people and however many mobs, it might be 10 minutes before they're up again!). Making it so PCs are paired and separated by mobs could cut that down.
Alright, so it sounds like for usual mobs (i.e. not bosses, just like a gang of thugs) adding a thug and/or max healthing is a way to go. I saw someone else's post on this topic from some time back and noted that fighting to the end is dumb so having non-boss mobs cut and run is a way to end fights too, with the potential for PCs to give chase.
Because this is most of the players' second game ever, I decided to keep it simple to PHB and for me the DMG and loosely SCAG. XgtE and TCE look fun but maybe for the future.
Huh. I've actually been going through monsters and reducing hp while buffing offense, though that depends on what monsters you're dealing with (it's mostly for monsters that have a lot of toughness relative to offense; my target is dpr equal to 1/3 of effective hp). If I want to make a fight harder I'll just add more monsters or higher end monsters.
That's actually not so much about making it harder as it is keeping my monsters alive for more than 1 round (or on low initiative rolls simply keeping them alive until their turn). my party has a battlemaster fighter with 3 attacks, shadow monk/assassin rogue multiclass that usually autocrits on the first strike, totem barbarian great weapon master, oath of the ancients paladin, a moon druid, and a ranger with sharpshooter. Their dpr is insane, so keeping things alive past the 1st round is a challenge without a bigger HP pool
"To die would be an awfully big adventure"
Try picking monsters that focus against your players strengths. At some point it will seem like your out for their blood but it really helps the players know their strengths and weakness'. If the barbarian is not playing add tanky enemies, if the wizards not playing add some casters. I switch up monsters but bring their stats down lower so players can get use to fighting things outside of their comfort zones. Eventually they'll just fight the correct stats for the creature.
Something that do is either double the bonuses to damage or reduce them to 0. That has turned out to be surprisingly well balanced and it’s something that I can do on the fly.
For example, if a monster does 1d6+3 damage I either make the damage 1d6+6 or 1d6 depending on the size of the party. It’s quick, simple, and it tends to work out surprisingly well.
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What are you using? Remember to reduce the xp multiplier by 0.5 for a party of 6 -- at level 11, filling out 1/3 of your daily budget requires a CR 22 boss.
Yeah I don't really run the game based on daily XP budgets at this point because it doesn't make sense for the style of play that the game is at currently. So for example, last session the party had 3 days of travel through the mountains and narratively the city they were going to was way more important than the "getting there" so I gave them 2 days of relatively eventless travel and 1 day with some challenges. The first combat was an ambush by 2 bulettes and then a behir joined in the middle of round 2, and then later on in the day I had an encounter on a cliffside mountain pass with a Harpy Matriarch, 3 other Harpys, and 2 Stone Giants high above chucking rocks down at the party. I find that interesting encounters like that 2nd one are more rewarding than throwing massive, damage-dealing monsters at them, and the HP buffs allows me to use monsters that the party would wipe easily and make sure that they stay alive long enough to make the encounter interesting.
"To die would be an awfully big adventure"
Well, interestingly enough, this might be an entirely different - if easier - issue! My players have elected to go with 6 damage dealers of varying capacities, and no healing spells between the lot of them! That may change as they level but I wonder if maybe I'll discount them to being a group of 5 and start with max-HP the standard enemies array for 4 PCs; if too easy, add another enemy of the same or similar CR.
For a group that size, you must , you MUST, YOU MUST, give the monsters Legendary Actions and Legendary Resists. The players will simply bury your monster with Action Economy otherwise.
Or you can use multiple monsters. It's easier to balance for varying group size with multiple monsters anyway -- for each extra PC, add an extra monster. Though I advise splitting up their initiative even if they're all the same, having six monsters suddenly all go at once can be overwhelming.
I originally went the route of "more monsters". In fact, the last big battle my crew encountered was 5 monsters, including the BBEG. But that being said, it is far far better to have the BBEG have LA's (as it did in this last fight), to smooth out any vagaries in the Initiative order, and to give the BBEG a fighting chance = tougher fight = more entertainment for players AND DM.
You can access the Basic Rules for Dungeons and Dragons Fifth Edition right here on DND beyond. Check out:
Chapter 13: Building Combat Encounters
Should have everything you need to get you going.
Check out my Disabled & Dragons Youtube Channel for 5e Monster and Player Tactics. Helping the Disabled Community and Players and DM’s (both new and experienced) get into D&D. Plus there is a talking Dragon named Quill.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPPmyTI0tZ6nM-bzY0IG3ww
Chapter 2: Dungeon Master's Tools
Encounter Building
How to you determine how many are needed for those rare multiple 21 and over CR monsters?
Have layered fights. Have an enemy join after round 2 or 3 depending on how they are doing. Once you get a handle on player skill and survivability up the ante. More mobs and higher cr creatures-players start punching above their level at 5(if not before).