I have a group of Rogues and Assasins laying a trap for the party. Should I use focus fire on strongest character which probably takes him out. Or spread it around. I hate to take a player out before he even rolls once outside init. But, if it was the group laying a trap for the DM, they would focus fire. It is the logical thing to do, but is it the right thing to do? yes the party has healers, so they can get him back up, but should I keep using focus fire as the encounter goes?
The rogues have been watching them, seen them fighting in the arena so they know the group.
It makes sense to have them target the tank, and who knows, maybe the players have some abilities that might help mitigate the situation and get the tank back on their feet for the rest of the fight.
If you're really concerned about dropping anyone before surprise wears off, consider having the assassins making active stealth rolls and ask players for active perception rolls, thus increasing the chances that either an assassin rolls low or a player rolls high and isn't surprised for the round.
That way, even if the assassins all succeed, the players at least feel like what happened was fair since they'll know that they rolled low on their perception and that the tank going down is the result of that failure.
It depends on the group, and the difficulty they are expecting; having your enemies use focus fire can change the difficulty of an encounter more than one might think. I would ask your players if they are OK with this difficulty change, especially if you plan on using it more often. You don't need to tell them what your planning, just something along the lines of "Would you like the game more/less if smarter enemies used better tactics, such as focus fire, even if it meant that you may get downed in the first round of combat, resulting in less turns playing your character in combat?"
Also, this is a good time to find out exactly what type fantasy they want from the game; some players like feeling powerful and shredding through encounters, while others prefer a high level of challenge with a constant risk of death; most like something in between. Knowing what your party wants is the first step to balancing encounters.
To answer your initial question, I will tell you that players typically get pretty annoyed if they die in a surprise attack, especially if it didn't seem avoidable. If the enemy's goal is capture, however, then I say it's fair game.
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I write homebrew and don't publish it. (evil, I know)
An original idea, most DMs would putthe party against a group of rouges (whatever they are)
This sort of thing should be discussed in session 0. Do the players want intelligent enemies to act intelligently or should they fight "fairly" even though players will not.
Personally I think enemies should focus fire but at minimal risk of PC death. If there is only one healer and no health potions do not focus fire on the healer.
A step beyond this is attacking unconcious PC, if the rogues have been watching 5hem they will know that to take then out of the fight they need to keep hitting them after they go down but this would definitely need to be discussed with the players. If the players do not have revivify I would be careful, an auto crit on an unconcious PC is OK if the healers turn is next to get them back up but not if it is the unconcious PC and there is a 45% chance of death.
Here's a key thing to keep in mind: focus fire, especially out of stealth, will always feel "unfair" to players. This is because it's a smart tactic, and smart tacticians do not fight fair if they can possibly avoid it. So before you do this, think about whether your players will have more fun fighting enemies who are "fair", or enemies who are "smart"; this will vary from group to group.
Make sure you give the players a reasonable chance to spot or anticipate the ambush. If you want to make the encounter feel more balanced once it's started, you can disadvantage the assassins in other ways. I'd recommend really leaning into making them glass cannons; if they could take a hit, they wouldn't be assassins. This will make the fight feel quick, brutal, and most importantly scary, but ultimately very winnable.
Thanks to both. I definieley will use the stealth rolls and perceptions.
They know my encounters are hard. They have been warned numerous times to think like a thieves guild. They know that is what they are up against. Rogues do not play fair, bottom line. They actually may surprise me and do something different.
But he will not be killed killed, but go to death saves unless healed before the saves.
I would do it. And I would target the healer first. That’s what you do in a world where you know people can be popped back up with a bonus action. I wouldn’t do it every time, but once in a while, this sort of thing is a good way to show the players they’re facing a different kind of enemy.
Fortunately the guy who probably gets swacked is a DM and will understand. The party should win the encounter. The guy down will not be killed out right just death saves. But the 1 assassin who is key to the plot will do enough damage with his first shot to take him down.
Fortunately the guy who probably gets swacked is a DM and will understand. The party should win the encounter. The guy down will not be killed out right just death saves. But the 1 assassin who is key to the plot will do enough damage with his first shot to take him down.
As a player, I think I’d be more unhappy about an ambush by an opponent who can take me from full health into death saves in one shot than I would be about getting focus-fired down by a group of enemies before I got a turn. And then that guy also has a group of people with him to attack the rest of my party? Ouch. Sounds a bit over-tuned to me but it’s true that rogues don’t play fair; your encounters are hard and your group might be up for it. Let us know how it goes.
Thanks to both. I definieley will use the stealth rolls and perceptions.
They know my encounters are hard. They have been warned numerous times to think like a thieves guild. They know that is what they are up against. Rogues do not play fair, bottom line. They actually may surprise me and do something different.
But he will not be killed killed, but go to death saves unless healed before the saves.
You can really ramp up the tension by giving them a death save fail or two by hitting them while unconcious. It can also make the party worried about yoyo healing because next time someone goes down the bad guys might be able to kill the PC before they get a chance to heal them.
Since you have warned the players beforehand, then focus fire is entirely fair. Not only that, but sometimes smart enemies should target the party wizard or cleric first, as Xalthu suggested. (Or whoever looks like the party wizard or cleric...*hint hint*). Smart enemies might further do things like set traps or use arrows that inflict the Poisoned condition. Ofc, you should be careful about introducing all of these elements at once, esp. if there are any new-ish players at your table (less than 4 sessions).
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I have a group of Rogues and Assasins laying a trap for the party. Should I use focus fire on strongest character which probably takes him out. Or spread it around. I hate to take a player out before he even rolls once outside init. But, if it was the group laying a trap for the DM, they would focus fire. It is the logical thing to do, but is it the right thing to do? yes the party has healers, so they can get him back up, but should I keep using focus fire as the encounter goes?
The rogues have been watching them, seen them fighting in the arena so they know the group.
Thanks for any insight.
It makes sense to have them target the tank, and who knows, maybe the players have some abilities that might help mitigate the situation and get the tank back on their feet for the rest of the fight.
If you're really concerned about dropping anyone before surprise wears off, consider having the assassins making active stealth rolls and ask players for active perception rolls, thus increasing the chances that either an assassin rolls low or a player rolls high and isn't surprised for the round.
That way, even if the assassins all succeed, the players at least feel like what happened was fair since they'll know that they rolled low on their perception and that the tank going down is the result of that failure.
It depends on the group, and the difficulty they are expecting; having your enemies use focus fire can change the difficulty of an encounter more than one might think. I would ask your players if they are OK with this difficulty change, especially if you plan on using it more often. You don't need to tell them what your planning, just something along the lines of "Would you like the game more/less if smarter enemies used better tactics, such as focus fire, even if it meant that you may get downed in the first round of combat, resulting in less turns playing your character in combat?"
Also, this is a good time to find out exactly what type fantasy they want from the game; some players like feeling powerful and shredding through encounters, while others prefer a high level of challenge with a constant risk of death; most like something in between. Knowing what your party wants is the first step to balancing encounters.
To answer your initial question, I will tell you that players typically get pretty annoyed if they die in a surprise attack, especially if it didn't seem avoidable. If the enemy's goal is capture, however, then I say it's fair game.
I write homebrew and don't publish it. (evil, I know)
An original idea, most DMs would putthe party against a group of rouges (whatever they are)
This sort of thing should be discussed in session 0. Do the players want intelligent enemies to act intelligently or should they fight "fairly" even though players will not.
Personally I think enemies should focus fire but at minimal risk of PC death. If there is only one healer and no health potions do not focus fire on the healer.
A step beyond this is attacking unconcious PC, if the rogues have been watching 5hem they will know that to take then out of the fight they need to keep hitting them after they go down but this would definitely need to be discussed with the players. If the players do not have revivify I would be careful, an auto crit on an unconcious PC is OK if the healers turn is next to get them back up but not if it is the unconcious PC and there is a 45% chance of death.
Here's a key thing to keep in mind: focus fire, especially out of stealth, will always feel "unfair" to players. This is because it's a smart tactic, and smart tacticians do not fight fair if they can possibly avoid it. So before you do this, think about whether your players will have more fun fighting enemies who are "fair", or enemies who are "smart"; this will vary from group to group.
Make sure you give the players a reasonable chance to spot or anticipate the ambush. If you want to make the encounter feel more balanced once it's started, you can disadvantage the assassins in other ways. I'd recommend really leaning into making them glass cannons; if they could take a hit, they wouldn't be assassins. This will make the fight feel quick, brutal, and most importantly scary, but ultimately very winnable.
Thanks to both. I definieley will use the stealth rolls and perceptions.
They know my encounters are hard. They have been warned numerous times to think like a thieves guild. They know that is what they are up against. Rogues do not play fair, bottom line. They actually may surprise me and do something different.
But he will not be killed killed, but go to death saves unless healed before the saves.
I would do it. And I would target the healer first. That’s what you do in a world where you know people can be popped back up with a bonus action.
I wouldn’t do it every time, but once in a while, this sort of thing is a good way to show the players they’re facing a different kind of enemy.
Fortunately the guy who probably gets swacked is a DM and will understand. The party should win the encounter. The guy down will not be killed out right just death saves. But the 1 assassin who is key to the plot will do enough damage with his first shot to take him down.
I think so too.
Thanks to all for your input and ideas.
As a player, I think I’d be more unhappy about an ambush by an opponent who can take me from full health into death saves in one shot than I would be about getting focus-fired down by a group of enemies before I got a turn. And then that guy also has a group of people with him to attack the rest of my party? Ouch. Sounds a bit over-tuned to me but it’s true that rogues don’t play fair; your encounters are hard and your group might be up for it. Let us know how it goes.
You can really ramp up the tension by giving them a death save fail or two by hitting them while unconcious. It can also make the party worried about yoyo healing because next time someone goes down the bad guys might be able to kill the PC before they get a chance to heal them.
I recommend solving the focus fire by giving the assassins someone who can cast fireball, that makes ambushes far more exciting.
Since you have warned the players beforehand, then focus fire is entirely fair. Not only that, but sometimes smart enemies should target the party wizard or cleric first, as Xalthu suggested. (Or whoever looks like the party wizard or cleric...*hint hint*). Smart enemies might further do things like set traps or use arrows that inflict the Poisoned condition. Ofc, you should be careful about introducing all of these elements at once, esp. if there are any new-ish players at your table (less than 4 sessions).