I have a reoccurring issue, at least two of my players can use silvery barbs and they keep using it on basically everything. I’m kind of ticked as I never get to do anything. Wondering if anyone has a solution. I don’t want to just get rid of it but I also don’t want to keep it in as is.
My only issue with that is that one of the players took fey touched and I wouldn’t want to just take that away. I’m wondering if it would be possible to kind of “homebrew a solution”
My only issue with that is that one of the players took fey touched and I wouldn’t want to just take that away. I’m wondering if it would be possible to kind of “homebrew a solution”
Sure. "Feel free to change the character to have a different spell, or even a different feat". Honestly, you're best off just banning the entire Strixhaven book.
2) If you do not want to ban the book, then look hard at it's limitations: a) Sight, b) within 60'.
Suddenly everything is happening at 80 ft range, or in deep fog. Too bad you can only see 5 ft ahead of you - maybe 10 ft if you roll a perception check
I will consider the solutions laid in front of me. I’m not sure how exactly to approach this with my players but I have a pretty good idea. Thank you for the help.
Have you considered having your 'encounters' play by the same rules as the players? Ie...give your bad guys the same spell capabilities as the players including feats and spell selections?
In my homebrew, I threw in the rule that on a crit, you calculate the damage plus any applicable bonuses (as opposed to just doubling the damage dice) before doubling the damage. However, I made it clear that this counted for the enemies as well.
I don't know what level your characters are, but at your next encounter, try throwing enemies with the fey-touched and silvery barbs right back at them. That should at the very least even the playing field.
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Lessons learned in blood are not soon forgotten. - Clyde Shelton
The truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is and you must bow to it's power or live a lie. -Miyamoto Musashi
Silvery Barbs requires a first-level spell slot to be cast.
Flood them with mundane targets and then send in the bosses when they have burned through the spell slots. Goblin swarms, etc. Give them a paradise of targets and, after you know they've burned the spell slots down send in the real fight.
Give the monster the ability to cast Antimagic, it will knock Silvery Barbs away for the the entire encounter. Or just give the monster immunity to that one spell
Have you considered having your 'encounters' play by the same rules as the players? Ie...give your bad guys the same spell capabilities as the players including feats and spell selections?
In my homebrew, I threw in the rule that on a crit, you calculate the damage plus any applicable bonuses (as opposed to just doubling the damage dice) before doubling the damage. However, I made it clear that this counted for the enemies as well.
I don't know what level your characters are, but at your next encounter, try throwing enemies with the fey-touched and silvery barbs right back at them. That should at the very least even the playing field.
I think that should work. Thanks for the idea of throwing what they send at me right back. It should help make the encounters a lot more engaging and longer.
I just feel like sending hordes of enemies to burn their spell slots is kind of cheating. These are somewhat lower level characters and I don’t want to overwhelm them. Especially considering that most of them are spell-casters.
Throw a couple of Helmed Horror at them. Helmed Horrors are immune to three spells of the DM's choosing. So have the Horrors immune to Silvery Barbs (and/or other popular Spells. I do the same when I see Warlocks relying overly heavily on Eldritch Blast.
In addition, get some creatures that have advantage to magical effects. That way I'll end up ruling that the enemy takes the higher of the rolls anyway.
The problem ultimately with Silvery Barbs is that there is no 'distraction' mechanic in 5e beyond what DMs house rule. Silvery Barbs forces such a distraction in. So, as Silvery Barbs is a 1st level spell I've house ruled that it is ineffective against Constructs, and I've added a flat out rule that it just fails on any creature with a WIS of 12 or higher. This to me seemed the best solution. It makes the spell still very effective against a lot of enemies, but it also provides sorely needed balance to the spells.
Of course...the other tactic is just to send some enemies with stupidly high 'to hit' bonuses. When the enemies start to reach to hits of 10+ Silvery Barbs is going to be an entirely pointless spell which wastes a spell slot.
I just feel like sending hordes of enemies to burn their spell slots is kind of cheating. These are somewhat lower level characters and I don’t want to overwhelm them. Especially considering that most of them are spell-casters.
Can you give us a little more information about the type of campaign you running, the party breakup, and how they are using Silvery Barbs that is causing fits? We are at a disadvantage in giving advice without knowing how the proposed solution can impact your game. The are several options that can be suggested (see below) but knowing more about how the spell is being used and the make up of the game will help with focusing on viable options and how to implement.
Some ideas:
1) Research monsters, features, and spells that can impact the players' use of their Reaction. 2) Increase the number of encounters that require the players to make challenging d20 tests. This isn't just fights, this can be traps, riddles, and navigating through the environment. Anything that will require the players to engage in a contest. 3) Add in more moments where the players have to consider using their spell slots. Look at what spells the players have taken (and what good spells they haven't taken) and build elements to the game the players feel they need to use spell slots to ensure success. I say look at spells they do not have, especially if most of them are spell casters, because now you can inspire them to adjust their spell selection for more versatility (thus limiting the number of players who have Silvery Barbs on their spell list). 4) Include elements in the encounters that will entice or temp them to use this spell where you will feel less frustrated. For example, I am assuming your players are low strength being spell casters; so have monsters that put the players at risk of being restrained. Now they have to choose between casting Silvery Barbs to avoid a character being restrained or save it for when they cast a spell to force a creature to reroll a save. 5) Increase the monsters' proficiency bonus. Silvery Barbs doesn't guarantee a favorable role for the player; so if monsters have a 60% to 70% success rate on a given role then forcing another roll may still result in the same outcome. 6) Traps, dangerous terrain, effects related to other actions (i.e. a fire in the cottage, a sinking ship, projectiles being launched form siege weapons, spells). Put the onus on your players to make saving throws to avoid taking damage or other effects. Silvery Barbs won't help them here and you can plan out these elements that might result in the players having to, again, burn spell slots to counter these elements.
I think the most simplistic answer is suggest it is making DM'ing less fun for you when they spam it. It's meant to be fun for both parties, if you let them know that it's making DM'ing less fun for you and they are reasonable folk who are enjoying playing the game, i think there can be a meeting of the minds. I am both a DM and a player at this point, and i have counterspells, but i only use it when i feel like it's necessary. So across about 14 encounters since hitting that level, it's been used twice.
I think peterpan's list is a good example of what to do overall if you want to leave the spell as is. specifically point 5. You don't have to make every single encounter a situation where a mob has a high proficiency bonus, but shifting that number will make silvery barbs work in some situations more effective and in some very rarely. If it's not the go to curing everything anymore, the use it'll see will go down. It sounds to me like every encounter so far is pretty similar in nature if silvery barbs is working every time, but if you want to give us examples that might help diagnose that aspect of things a bit more firmly.
our party consists of a bard/druid, a bard, a cleric, an artificer, a rouge, a paladin, and a wizard. Basically, the part has used silvery barbs every encounter for the last about 7-9 sessions making it so that my monsters don’t get a chance to attack or even take a turn in combat. My codm has been trying to make the encounters more difficult but they always find a way to cheese them. I’ve also been attempting to work with them but was unable to find a work around. I hope me giving a little bit more info helps. If you need to know anything else do not hesitate to ask.
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I have a reoccurring issue, at least two of my players can use silvery barbs and they keep using it on basically everything. I’m kind of ticked as I never get to do anything. Wondering if anyone has a solution. I don’t want to just get rid of it but I also don’t want to keep it in as is.
The solution is to get rid of it. Or just increase encounter difficulty by enough to make up for it.
My only issue with that is that one of the players took fey touched and I wouldn’t want to just take that away. I’m wondering if it would be possible to kind of “homebrew a solution”
Sure. "Feel free to change the character to have a different spell, or even a different feat". Honestly, you're best off just banning the entire Strixhaven book.
I will consider it. I think I’ll wait to see if there are any other solutions that don’t involve banning it entirely
1) Ban the entire book.
2) If you do not want to ban the book, then look hard at it's limitations: a) Sight, b) within 60'.
Suddenly everything is happening at 80 ft range, or in deep fog. Too bad you can only see 5 ft ahead of you - maybe 10 ft if you roll a perception check
I will consider the solutions laid in front of me. I’m not sure how exactly to approach this with my players but I have a pretty good idea. Thank you for the help.
Make it a concentration spell.
Force it into a 3/day usage, or some method of limiting factor that restricts the spamming of it.
or get rid of it, and say because of the excessive use the magic that enabled it has worn out. ( or whatever excuse you can think of.)
Just out of curiosity...
Have you considered having your 'encounters' play by the same rules as the players? Ie...give your bad guys the same spell capabilities as the players including feats and spell selections?
In my homebrew, I threw in the rule that on a crit, you calculate the damage plus any applicable bonuses (as opposed to just doubling the damage dice) before doubling the damage. However, I made it clear that this counted for the enemies as well.
I don't know what level your characters are, but at your next encounter, try throwing enemies with the fey-touched and silvery barbs right back at them. That should at the very least even the playing field.
Aut Inveniam Viam Aut Faciam (Find a way or make one) - Hannibal Allegedly
Lessons learned in blood are not soon forgotten. - Clyde Shelton
The truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is and you must bow to it's power or live a lie. -Miyamoto Musashi
Silvery Barbs requires a first-level spell slot to be cast.
Flood them with mundane targets and then send in the bosses when they have burned through the spell slots. Goblin swarms, etc. Give them a paradise of targets and, after you know they've burned the spell slots down send in the real fight.
How many encounters are you giving them a day? More encounters will make them weigh how much they want to spend in resources.
Give the monster the ability to cast Antimagic, it will knock Silvery Barbs away for the the entire encounter. Or just give the monster immunity to that one spell
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I think that should work. Thanks for the idea of throwing what they send at me right back. It should help make the encounters a lot more engaging and longer.
I just feel like sending hordes of enemies to burn their spell slots is kind of cheating. These are somewhat lower level characters and I don’t want to overwhelm them. Especially considering that most of them are spell-casters.
Throw a couple of Helmed Horror at them. Helmed Horrors are immune to three spells of the DM's choosing. So have the Horrors immune to Silvery Barbs (and/or other popular Spells. I do the same when I see Warlocks relying overly heavily on Eldritch Blast.
In addition, get some creatures that have advantage to magical effects. That way I'll end up ruling that the enemy takes the higher of the rolls anyway.
The problem ultimately with Silvery Barbs is that there is no 'distraction' mechanic in 5e beyond what DMs house rule. Silvery Barbs forces such a distraction in. So, as Silvery Barbs is a 1st level spell I've house ruled that it is ineffective against Constructs, and I've added a flat out rule that it just fails on any creature with a WIS of 12 or higher. This to me seemed the best solution. It makes the spell still very effective against a lot of enemies, but it also provides sorely needed balance to the spells.
Of course...the other tactic is just to send some enemies with stupidly high 'to hit' bonuses. When the enemies start to reach to hits of 10+ Silvery Barbs is going to be an entirely pointless spell which wastes a spell slot.
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This is just a specific case of "my encounters aren't challenging my players". All of the techniques for that will help.
I don't personally find the spell to be a problem, but it is from a specific campaign setting, and you don't have to allow it in other games.
Can you give us a little more information about the type of campaign you running, the party breakup, and how they are using Silvery Barbs that is causing fits? We are at a disadvantage in giving advice without knowing how the proposed solution can impact your game. The are several options that can be suggested (see below) but knowing more about how the spell is being used and the make up of the game will help with focusing on viable options and how to implement.
Some ideas:
1) Research monsters, features, and spells that can impact the players' use of their Reaction.
2) Increase the number of encounters that require the players to make challenging d20 tests. This isn't just fights, this can be traps, riddles, and navigating through the environment. Anything that will require the players to engage in a contest.
3) Add in more moments where the players have to consider using their spell slots. Look at what spells the players have taken (and what good spells they haven't taken) and build elements to the game the players feel they need to use spell slots to ensure success. I say look at spells they do not have, especially if most of them are spell casters, because now you can inspire them to adjust their spell selection for more versatility (thus limiting the number of players who have Silvery Barbs on their spell list).
4) Include elements in the encounters that will entice or temp them to use this spell where you will feel less frustrated. For example, I am assuming your players are low strength being spell casters; so have monsters that put the players at risk of being restrained. Now they have to choose between casting Silvery Barbs to avoid a character being restrained or save it for when they cast a spell to force a creature to reroll a save.
5) Increase the monsters' proficiency bonus. Silvery Barbs doesn't guarantee a favorable role for the player; so if monsters have a 60% to 70% success rate on a given role then forcing another roll may still result in the same outcome.
6) Traps, dangerous terrain, effects related to other actions (i.e. a fire in the cottage, a sinking ship, projectiles being launched form siege weapons, spells). Put the onus on your players to make saving throws to avoid taking damage or other effects. Silvery Barbs won't help them here and you can plan out these elements that might result in the players having to, again, burn spell slots to counter these elements.
I think the most simplistic answer is suggest it is making DM'ing less fun for you when they spam it. It's meant to be fun for both parties, if you let them know that it's making DM'ing less fun for you and they are reasonable folk who are enjoying playing the game, i think there can be a meeting of the minds. I am both a DM and a player at this point, and i have counterspells, but i only use it when i feel like it's necessary. So across about 14 encounters since hitting that level, it's been used twice.
I think peterpan's list is a good example of what to do overall if you want to leave the spell as is. specifically point 5. You don't have to make every single encounter a situation where a mob has a high proficiency bonus, but shifting that number will make silvery barbs work in some situations more effective and in some very rarely. If it's not the go to curing everything anymore, the use it'll see will go down. It sounds to me like every encounter so far is pretty similar in nature if silvery barbs is working every time, but if you want to give us examples that might help diagnose that aspect of things a bit more firmly.
our party consists of a bard/druid, a bard, a cleric, an artificer, a rouge, a paladin, and a wizard. Basically, the part has used silvery barbs every encounter for the last about 7-9 sessions making it so that my monsters don’t get a chance to attack or even take a turn in combat. My codm has been trying to make the encounters more difficult but they always find a way to cheese them. I’ve also been attempting to work with them but was unable to find a work around. I hope me giving a little bit more info helps. If you need to know anything else do not hesitate to ask.