I'll give the cliche long time watcher, first time poster here.
In the coming 3-4 weeks we should be starting Vecna: Eve of Ruin. I will be running and have 2-3 sessions planned prior to actually starting the adventure, where we will be playing Nest of the Eldritch Eye (which I have modified for level 8 characters), then I have another self-created adventure to get the characters invested or at least of a vesting interest in the events of Eve of Ruin. I don't think it's necessary, but it'll be my personalized touch and my way of getting the characters some personalized items for their journey through the multiverse.
With that background out of the way, last evening one of my good buddies, who also runs some of games but will be a player in this one, and I had a conversation about a possible new mechanic (his idea) that we may try and implement into the game. Mind you this is a work in progress, nothing is set in stone, so I wanted to get some additional feedback.
The idea he had stemmed from watching any particular hero movie, hero show, hero anime, where the good guys sometimes just find that little extra boost, and it may be to their advantage or there could be consequences. I'll get into it and would appreciate constructive feedback with any pros or cons any of you can think.
The idea is that at the beginning of each adventuring day, a player will start with an additional d10 (original idea was d20, but I like d10), and let's say there happens to be an attack roll, a saving throw, a skill check, that they completely bomb on, they can choose to roll that d20 roll again, but must also roll that additional d10. That d10 isn't going to be used to add to the d20 roll, but it is used as say your luck die. Whether or not the new roll succeeds, the player must roll the d10. On a roll of 1-3 on the d10, that character suffers one level of exhaustion, 4 and above the character is good. However, after that initial roll, they are given a second d10, regardless of what the first die result was. This is meant to show that eventually your luck is either going to run out or eventually you have just pushed yourself too far. This would continue, if they choose to push their luck or take too many chances, and I think both he and I agreed that a good stopping point would be 5d10. After rolling the first d10, they are given a second d10. Once they roll the 2d10, they are given a third, and so on until they have 5d10.
He suggested the use of the Exhaustion table because it is already a built-in mechanic of the rules, plus that would stack with any other forms of exhaustion due to the environment or one imposed by a monster or other effect. However, step 6 of Exhaustion wouldn't be death, it would simply be that you fall unconscious, and the only way for you to recover is with a long rest. There is no magical healing or anything that can be done, it would be that your body simply couldn't take any more for that day.
That covers the consequence of pushing your luck, but the benefit would let's say for having the one extra d10, you re-roll that d20 that you just horribly failed on, you roll 4 or higher and all is well, but you add a second d10. Once you have the 2d10, maybe the benefit, by pushing yourself, is that you gain an extra attack action for the round, but this is where any feedback and possible perk advice would be good. The last one, once you have 5d10, you gain temporary narrative control of the scene. Best example we thought of was that it looks like the party is completely wrecked and low on health, however, you use your luck and say that you gather enough energy and choose that your next attack against said bad guy is a crit. Resolve the roll, and if it takes them out, it takes them out, if not, good luck.
I will finish this post by saying that in no way do I think this would be abused by any of the players. I know them all very well, and I think most would actually be hesitant, mainly because of the setbacks on the exhaustion table. I do think this could add an interesting dynamic to the game and would make for some interesting decisions when presented.
Thank you for taking the time to read, and thank you in advance for any replies.
Good day all.
Quick edit because I did not include originally, I thought this might be a mechanic that could be tied to the characters after they get Vecna's Link in Chapter 1. This would likely kick in after that point.
Success and Failure are all part of the game, and failure shouldn't be seen as overly negative. Inspiration exists to allow the DM to give players the chance to have advantage (though traditionally it doesn't stack up, so use it or miss it!).
One option you could have is a party pool of inspiration, where they need majority concensus to use it. So the party of 5 starts each day with 2 Inspirations, and if they do cool stuff (I tend to reward roleplay and tactics for this), they can earn more, up to 5. Then, if someone fluffs the roll, they can use the inspiration to reroll, if the party agrees.
Typically though, I would avoid letting "but I wanted to succeed" be a good enough reason for a reroll or advantage. If they want to do something well, then they need to explain how they do so or pick abilities to let them do it well. If it's a save, then I may allow them to try something which expends resources to mitigate a failure - "can I, as the white dragon's ice breath hits, use fireball toreduce the damage?". Rule of cool and all that. "Can I try again?" ain't going to cut it for me!
Not necessarily at-will advantage on checks/saves/attacks. In our scenario, if someone wishes to take that chance, it's not with advantage, they would just re-roll their d20 and accept the new result, good or bad, but you do gain that extra d10 (or more), which then adds to your likelihood of taking that exhaustion if you try and push it again. Mimicking inspiration in that respect.
**As a side note, we originated in D&D 3E/3.5, so we have usually played with flanking rules. However, I intend on having Advantage not be readily available with this method, so it should really only come from spells, class features, or whatever other special means it can be generated.
Regarding the Inspiration, whether it be myself or other friends who run games, that somehow gets lost in the mix and not doled out as readily as we could/should. I have a solution for this, can't remember if I saw it here or on reddit, but someone suggested using metal coins of some sort to be indicative of that inspiration. What I was going to do is buy a handful and hand those out at the beginning of a session. You have that one coin of inspiration for the session, so it is basically use or lose it, and it wouldn't carry over to the next game, and you turn it in when used. But if something heroic is done, I may choose to hand it back out (still determining this). In me and my buddy's conversation, we both agreed having something tangible representing we have that option would simply be helpful (human nature is to fiddle with such items). We do use Beyond and have our campaigns and characters online, so that box is easy to mark on your sheet, but having that physical reminder, we thought it was simple and would keep it in the forefront of the player's minds.
Greater Restoration as a means of removing a level is a good piece, thanks. It would be quite the expenditure of a caster (5th level spell) to aid themselves or a party member.
I have to agree with Arnit the beast that its basically at-will advantage. You'll only choose to do it if you fail a roll. You won't pass and then say I want to pass better, unless you implement a degrees of success mechanic to go along with it. So on a pass, you keep what you have, on a fail, you re-roll. Its pretty much going to work out like advantage.
When you say a second d10, do you mean now they have to roll twice and see if they get under a 3 on each die? If I were going to do it, I'd say something like, you still only roll one, but next roll, 4 is the tipping point number, then 5 and so on.
Tasha's rangers won't mind it very much, as they get to remove an exhaustion level on a short rest. Could be there's also some other class/subclass/abilities in the mix I'm forgetting that make exhaustion not as bad. Also on Greater restoration, mind the component cost. The 100 gp isn't likely to be much at that level, but finding piles and piles of diamond dust could be a problem.
The real issue I'd have with it is the bookkeeping. (And that might not be a problem for everyone) But tracking if I've used my d10 yet today, or how many times I have used it seems like it will get cumbersome. And I also think the exhaustion levels mechanic are a bit cumbersome just in general, but if you're using them a lot, I guess that issue could solve itself over time as you practice more. To me it just seems like the bookkeeping would not be worth the fun it would add, but, again, that's clearly an opinion.
Based on the couple replies, and maybe it's the way my brain is interpreting it, I don't see the at-will advantage.
Example. In one round a character rolls a 2 on the d20, does not hit the enemy. You say I'm going to go ahead and push my luck or what have ya, so you roll the d20 again, as is, no advantage, just the d20 roll, accepting that result. You roll the d10, 1-3 you gain exhaustion, 4 and up you're good. You then get an additional d10, for 2d10 total.
Let's then say 2 combats later, something fireballs the group, and same character rolls a 3 for the Dex save, taking full damage would take them out. They could choose again to push their luck, re-rolling the d20, as is, no advantage, then they roll the 2d10. A result of 3 or below on either die and you gain exhaustion, 4 and up you're good. The d10s are meant to absolutely be present at the table, as we play in person, so the bookkeeping never seemed like a factor in our thinking because you have that physical representation sitting right there in front of you, and to track the exhaustion, you add it to your character sheet in Beyond. The die would be ever-present at the gaming table. I also have, that I found some time ago, a sheet someone created that you, as a DM, can keep track of all your PCs necessary info, AC (in addition to the Encounters in Beyond), passive senses, and I think it had all the statuses and exhaustion on there.
If I view it from a player's perspective, that looming threat of exhaustion and its brutal effects would be enough to make me hesitate to use it, but the payoff could be beneficial to my character in a given moment. But then adding the additional die/dice, and knowing that with more die the likelihood of that 1, 2, or 3, is greater, I feel like that is an emergency situation.
Completely understand the Inspiration viewpoints, I think his idea was to add another wrinkle and not necessarily just making a roll you don't know the result of with advantage. With the good, there could definitely be the bad. This would definitely be put before the table before it was ever implemented, and again, still a work in progress.
Completely understand the Inspiration viewpoints, I think his idea was to add another wrinkle and not necessarily just making a roll you don't know the result of with advantage. With the good, there could definitely be the bad. This would definitely be put before the table before it was ever implemented, and again, still a work in progress.
A common house rule for inspiration is to treat it like the lucky feat and allow using it after rolling. That's obviously significantly more powerful, but at least under the 2014 rules inspiration isn't enormously common.
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Greetings all.
I'll give the cliche long time watcher, first time poster here.
In the coming 3-4 weeks we should be starting Vecna: Eve of Ruin. I will be running and have 2-3 sessions planned prior to actually starting the adventure, where we will be playing Nest of the Eldritch Eye (which I have modified for level 8 characters), then I have another self-created adventure to get the characters invested or at least of a vesting interest in the events of Eve of Ruin. I don't think it's necessary, but it'll be my personalized touch and my way of getting the characters some personalized items for their journey through the multiverse.
With that background out of the way, last evening one of my good buddies, who also runs some of games but will be a player in this one, and I had a conversation about a possible new mechanic (his idea) that we may try and implement into the game. Mind you this is a work in progress, nothing is set in stone, so I wanted to get some additional feedback.
The idea he had stemmed from watching any particular hero movie, hero show, hero anime, where the good guys sometimes just find that little extra boost, and it may be to their advantage or there could be consequences. I'll get into it and would appreciate constructive feedback with any pros or cons any of you can think.
The idea is that at the beginning of each adventuring day, a player will start with an additional d10 (original idea was d20, but I like d10), and let's say there happens to be an attack roll, a saving throw, a skill check, that they completely bomb on, they can choose to roll that d20 roll again, but must also roll that additional d10. That d10 isn't going to be used to add to the d20 roll, but it is used as say your luck die. Whether or not the new roll succeeds, the player must roll the d10. On a roll of 1-3 on the d10, that character suffers one level of exhaustion, 4 and above the character is good. However, after that initial roll, they are given a second d10, regardless of what the first die result was. This is meant to show that eventually your luck is either going to run out or eventually you have just pushed yourself too far. This would continue, if they choose to push their luck or take too many chances, and I think both he and I agreed that a good stopping point would be 5d10. After rolling the first d10, they are given a second d10. Once they roll the 2d10, they are given a third, and so on until they have 5d10.
He suggested the use of the Exhaustion table because it is already a built-in mechanic of the rules, plus that would stack with any other forms of exhaustion due to the environment or one imposed by a monster or other effect. However, step 6 of Exhaustion wouldn't be death, it would simply be that you fall unconscious, and the only way for you to recover is with a long rest. There is no magical healing or anything that can be done, it would be that your body simply couldn't take any more for that day.
That covers the consequence of pushing your luck, but the benefit would let's say for having the one extra d10, you re-roll that d20 that you just horribly failed on, you roll 4 or higher and all is well, but you add a second d10. Once you have the 2d10, maybe the benefit, by pushing yourself, is that you gain an extra attack action for the round, but this is where any feedback and possible perk advice would be good. The last one, once you have 5d10, you gain temporary narrative control of the scene. Best example we thought of was that it looks like the party is completely wrecked and low on health, however, you use your luck and say that you gather enough energy and choose that your next attack against said bad guy is a crit. Resolve the roll, and if it takes them out, it takes them out, if not, good luck.
I will finish this post by saying that in no way do I think this would be abused by any of the players. I know them all very well, and I think most would actually be hesitant, mainly because of the setbacks on the exhaustion table. I do think this could add an interesting dynamic to the game and would make for some interesting decisions when presented.
Thank you for taking the time to read, and thank you in advance for any replies.
Good day all.
Quick edit because I did not include originally, I thought this might be a mechanic that could be tied to the characters after they get Vecna's Link in Chapter 1. This would likely kick in after that point.
Success and Failure are all part of the game, and failure shouldn't be seen as overly negative. Inspiration exists to allow the DM to give players the chance to have advantage (though traditionally it doesn't stack up, so use it or miss it!).
One option you could have is a party pool of inspiration, where they need majority concensus to use it. So the party of 5 starts each day with 2 Inspirations, and if they do cool stuff (I tend to reward roleplay and tactics for this), they can earn more, up to 5. Then, if someone fluffs the roll, they can use the inspiration to reroll, if the party agrees.
Typically though, I would avoid letting "but I wanted to succeed" be a good enough reason for a reroll or advantage. If they want to do something well, then they need to explain how they do so or pick abilities to let them do it well. If it's a save, then I may allow them to try something which expends resources to mitigate a failure - "can I, as the white dragon's ice breath hits, use fireball toreduce the damage?". Rule of cool and all that. "Can I try again?" ain't going to cut it for me!
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Not necessarily at-will advantage on checks/saves/attacks. In our scenario, if someone wishes to take that chance, it's not with advantage, they would just re-roll their d20 and accept the new result, good or bad, but you do gain that extra d10 (or more), which then adds to your likelihood of taking that exhaustion if you try and push it again. Mimicking inspiration in that respect.
**As a side note, we originated in D&D 3E/3.5, so we have usually played with flanking rules. However, I intend on having Advantage not be readily available with this method, so it should really only come from spells, class features, or whatever other special means it can be generated.
Regarding the Inspiration, whether it be myself or other friends who run games, that somehow gets lost in the mix and not doled out as readily as we could/should. I have a solution for this, can't remember if I saw it here or on reddit, but someone suggested using metal coins of some sort to be indicative of that inspiration. What I was going to do is buy a handful and hand those out at the beginning of a session. You have that one coin of inspiration for the session, so it is basically use or lose it, and it wouldn't carry over to the next game, and you turn it in when used. But if something heroic is done, I may choose to hand it back out (still determining this). In me and my buddy's conversation, we both agreed having something tangible representing we have that option would simply be helpful (human nature is to fiddle with such items). We do use Beyond and have our campaigns and characters online, so that box is easy to mark on your sheet, but having that physical reminder, we thought it was simple and would keep it in the forefront of the player's minds.
Greater Restoration as a means of removing a level is a good piece, thanks. It would be quite the expenditure of a caster (5th level spell) to aid themselves or a party member.
I have to agree with Arnit the beast that its basically at-will advantage. You'll only choose to do it if you fail a roll. You won't pass and then say I want to pass better, unless you implement a degrees of success mechanic to go along with it. So on a pass, you keep what you have, on a fail, you re-roll. Its pretty much going to work out like advantage.
When you say a second d10, do you mean now they have to roll twice and see if they get under a 3 on each die? If I were going to do it, I'd say something like, you still only roll one, but next roll, 4 is the tipping point number, then 5 and so on.
Tasha's rangers won't mind it very much, as they get to remove an exhaustion level on a short rest. Could be there's also some other class/subclass/abilities in the mix I'm forgetting that make exhaustion not as bad. Also on Greater restoration, mind the component cost. The 100 gp isn't likely to be much at that level, but finding piles and piles of diamond dust could be a problem.
The real issue I'd have with it is the bookkeeping. (And that might not be a problem for everyone) But tracking if I've used my d10 yet today, or how many times I have used it seems like it will get cumbersome. And I also think the exhaustion levels mechanic are a bit cumbersome just in general, but if you're using them a lot, I guess that issue could solve itself over time as you practice more. To me it just seems like the bookkeeping would not be worth the fun it would add, but, again, that's clearly an opinion.
Honestly, the original request is what Inspiration is meant for.
Based on the couple replies, and maybe it's the way my brain is interpreting it, I don't see the at-will advantage.
Example. In one round a character rolls a 2 on the d20, does not hit the enemy. You say I'm going to go ahead and push my luck or what have ya, so you roll the d20 again, as is, no advantage, just the d20 roll, accepting that result. You roll the d10, 1-3 you gain exhaustion, 4 and up you're good. You then get an additional d10, for 2d10 total.
Let's then say 2 combats later, something fireballs the group, and same character rolls a 3 for the Dex save, taking full damage would take them out. They could choose again to push their luck, re-rolling the d20, as is, no advantage, then they roll the 2d10. A result of 3 or below on either die and you gain exhaustion, 4 and up you're good. The d10s are meant to absolutely be present at the table, as we play in person, so the bookkeeping never seemed like a factor in our thinking because you have that physical representation sitting right there in front of you, and to track the exhaustion, you add it to your character sheet in Beyond. The die would be ever-present at the gaming table. I also have, that I found some time ago, a sheet someone created that you, as a DM, can keep track of all your PCs necessary info, AC (in addition to the Encounters in Beyond), passive senses, and I think it had all the statuses and exhaustion on there.
If I view it from a player's perspective, that looming threat of exhaustion and its brutal effects would be enough to make me hesitate to use it, but the payoff could be beneficial to my character in a given moment. But then adding the additional die/dice, and knowing that with more die the likelihood of that 1, 2, or 3, is greater, I feel like that is an emergency situation.
Completely understand the Inspiration viewpoints, I think his idea was to add another wrinkle and not necessarily just making a roll you don't know the result of with advantage. With the good, there could definitely be the bad. This would definitely be put before the table before it was ever implemented, and again, still a work in progress.
A common house rule for inspiration is to treat it like the lucky feat and allow using it after rolling. That's obviously significantly more powerful, but at least under the 2014 rules inspiration isn't enormously common.