So I have a player who is going to take part in a campaign I'm starting on Jan 9 and they gave me a backstory for their Chaotic Neutral Warlock. In essence, the PC's story is this:
A demon observes the PC as an orphan boy and -- after the boy ran away to a cave where he meets the demon -- offers the boy '...the power to defend yourselves against others...' while in return requiring a relatively small bloody sacrifice regularly. The boy agrees and is immediately granted a small amount of power, but the demon would become ever-present in the boy's mind (We've not decided how the demon's will come into play in the game, but it could be very cool). One thing that they have also expresses with regards to the demon itself is that the demon is a very powerful one (which could mean many things, but that's all the info I have so far).
Now -- As part of my setting (because -- ya know -- I'm in love with creating my own setting :P), I have a True Neutral God who lords over Arcane Magic, Mystery and Knowledge. I think this God could fit in very well with a Warlock because it doesn't have any associating with being good or evil and aligns with a Warlock's typical nature which is the seeking of knowledge and power. So my overall task revolves around the following: I want to create at least the outlines of a story whereby -- at the very least -- the player can be rid of their original patron and replace them with a new one. I also want to suggest this particular God, but I don't want to railroad them into it.
So as a DM, how would you handle this? Is there a specific way in which you would go about creating and/or presenting such a story to the party (and the player in question in particular)?
Would you make the demon relatively weak such as a Shadow Demon since even they would be powerful compared to a Level 1 PC let alone that PC as a child? Or would you make it significantly more powerful?
How would you handle any period where they had no patron? (i.e. if they get rid of the demon but haven't found a new patron).
Would you restrict what sort of patrons they could take? For example, I personally think it's a bit odd for a Warlock to take a Good Deities or Entities (e.g. a Lawful Good Deity or Entity) as their patron. Neutral or Evil Deities or Entities make more sense to me.
It depends on what sort of arc your player has in mind. If the player is fine having a demonic patron, then no real amount of nudging is going to get them to swap patrons. However, if they want to play out a sort of arc where they are fought over by competing powers, there are interesting places it could go.
As for the demon itself, it could either be an already powerful demon looking for a pawn in some scheme that involves your magical deity, or it could be just a lowly little shadow demon that has aims of gaining power along with the ever increasing sacrifices from its mortal servant.
As for patron choice, outside of the original infernal pact, you may want to look to some pact choices from the new XGE book. There's a divine-like option in there that would be a good swap. I would also caution against having there be a gap between patrons. Unless the player is really up for it, hamstringing the character like that might really impact the fun of playing.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Interesting idea. My initial impression upon first read was perhaps you could have the demon and the god being rivals. The PC could encounter agents of these factions by coincidence, perhaps slowly piecing together something of the story of the opposition of these two supernatural beings. It could be that each wages war through pawns such as this PC, and that luring pawns to the other side is “part of the game”. The other thing to consider is where the god exists within the deity-metaverse. Is it a god because it is within the pantheon of the other gods that exist? Is it simply a being powerful enough to be “god-like”? Or is it a personification of some magical force or primeval magic? The heart of the warlock is that their power source is an external entity of some sort. It really doesn’t matter who or what this external entity is, so long as it is able to grant the requisite power to do warlocky things. Having an idea of what the god actually is might make it easier to figure out whether it is suitable to act as a warlock patron.
It depends on what sort of arc your player has in mind. If the player is fine having a demonic patron, then no real amount of nudging is going to get them to swap patrons. However, if they want to play out a sort of arc where they are fought over by competing powers, there are interesting places it could go.
As for the demon itself, it could either be an already powerful demon looking for a pawn in some scheme that involves your magical deity, or it could be just a lowly little shadow demon that has aims of gaining power along with the ever increasing sacrifices from its mortal servant.
As for patron choice, outside of the original infernal pact, you may want to look to some pact choices from the new XGE book. There's a divine-like option in there that would be a good swap. I would also caution against having there be a gap between patrons. Unless the player is really up for it, hamstringing the character like that might really impact the fun of playing.
Well I don't want to push them into or railroad them along an arc whereby they have to change their patron. It's more along the lines of at least needing to have an idea of what their demonic patron is like so I can:
At least help to paint an interesting picture of the dynamic between the player and their patron.
I can have an idea of how to deal with the situation should they wish to change their patron.
I do prefer the idea of a low-level demon fighting up the ranks through becoming the patrons of unsuspecting mortals, but it's something I'll flesh out then present to the player to make sure they like it, too :)
As for the gap without a patron, it's not that I want them to go any length of time without a patron, but let's be honest - this is D&D and players can be unpredictable, meaning that going for a period of time (whether it be in-game hours, days, or longer) has a decent chance of happening.
Interesting idea. My initial impression upon first read was perhaps you could have the demon and the god being rivals. The PC could encounter agents of these factions by coincidence, perhaps slowly piecing together something of the story of the opposition of these two supernatural beings. It could be that each wages war through pawns such as this PC, and that luring pawns to the other side is “part of the game”. The other thing to consider is where the god exists within the deity-metaverse. Is it a god because it is within the pantheon of the other gods that exist? Is it simply a being powerful enough to be “god-like”? Or is it a personification of some magical force or primeval magic? The heart of the warlock is that their power source is an external entity of some sort. It really doesn’t matter who or what this external entity is, so long as it is able to grant the requisite power to do warlocky things. Having an idea of what the god actually is might make it easier to figure out whether it is suitable to act as a warlock patron.
Well I don't see the demon and the God being rivals in the strictest sense because they are - as I said - a God of True Neutral alignment, so the demon and the God would not have the same sort of rivalry that a Good Entity vs a Bad Entity might. Though I do like your thoughts on the demon and the God opposing each other for the following reason:
The God I'm talking about is indeed a God that is part of my world's Pantheon and is described as follows.
Aspetius, God of Wisdom, Mystery and the Arcane is one of three Deities who is Elemental in nature and is more powerful than most other Deities as a result. ... He always had an interest in developing the basis of Arcane Magic.
So the demon could be seeking the knowledge and knowledge of the Arcane Magics that Aspetius possesses in order to acquire the power it desires, but Aspetius is (actively) trying to prevent this. Could be a cool dynamic as well as a 'Plot Hook' that the player could choose to bite if they wish to change their patron from this demon to Aspetius.
I like the player's concept, but I agree with some of the other posters. The entity he has a Pact with should be relatively (insanely powerful to a person, weak for a demon) weak. A middle manager of a demon whose trying to play the game and gain power. If you and player want the Patron to be present in the game it's an interesting way to lay plot hooks and goals. Question. Does he want a demon or a devil? The difference being chaotic or lawful.
I do disagree with the idea that the Celestial Pact is any less valid. Nothing says that angels don't have their own personal motives and ambitions. The D&D gods are full of deities that usurp each other, even the good ones. These gods are much more like the Greek and Egyptian gods then how you'd look at the heirachy of a monotheistic religion. I actually have a Celestial Pact Warlock in a game right now. He's a Tiefling. He wanted to be a paladin to prove that his infernal heritage doesn't stop people from being Heroes, but wasn't allowed in paladin school... because they thought he was "evil". So, he convinced some Clerics to use one of the Contact spells and beseeched a middle manager angel to make a Pact. Now he's a "Gentleman Adventurer".
As for Pacts. One thing I like how about the Dev intent Pacts. They are bargins and can't be revoked, think of the entity's power going into escrow. Now I do like the idea of being able to change, but I would see it requiring both parties to agree. Player Agency is really important to me. So with this a Patron can't randomly "take back" power. Heck a Warlock could actively fight his Patron's goals and there is nothing the Patron could do about it, unless the Warlock dies ending the contract. I guess I like the idea of a Patron going "OK, FINE. You don't want this anymore... what do *I* have to do to have you end this?"
For changing patrons, I agree with the previous mention of the celestial patron from Xanathar's Guide. Time in between patrons feels tricky because there's no set rules or offical guidlines, but that just means you can make it fit the story or stick with simple ideas. First thing that comes to mind would be to strip the player of all the patron specific perks once they break the pact. Spell casting can be kept or lost depending on narrative. Is all the power of magic directly from the patron, or do the spells come from studies done by the individual warlock and, therefore, aren't dependant of a patron at all? Was the bond with the patron so intense and in twining that maybe it left some essence of it's power within the warlock after severing ties? Maybe his powers slowly fade over time until a new patron is found? Talk things like this over with your player, see what ideas he comes up with and think of how you can midigate them fairly. If they lose their abilities between patrons, it'd be neat to send them on a pilgrimage or quest to regain those abilities from their new patron. So long as the player is cool with the challenge of getting temporarily nerfed, that is.
Hey,
So I have a player who is going to take part in a campaign I'm starting on Jan 9 and they gave me a backstory for their Chaotic Neutral Warlock. In essence, the PC's story is this:
A demon observes the PC as an orphan boy and -- after the boy ran away to a cave where he meets the demon -- offers the boy '...the power to defend yourselves against others...' while in return requiring a relatively small bloody sacrifice regularly. The boy agrees and is immediately granted a small amount of power, but the demon would become ever-present in the boy's mind (We've not decided how the demon's will come into play in the game, but it could be very cool). One thing that they have also expresses with regards to the demon itself is that the demon is a very powerful one (which could mean many things, but that's all the info I have so far).
Now -- As part of my setting (because -- ya know -- I'm in love with creating my own setting :P), I have a True Neutral God who lords over Arcane Magic, Mystery and Knowledge. I think this God could fit in very well with a Warlock because it doesn't have any associating with being good or evil and aligns with a Warlock's typical nature which is the seeking of knowledge and power. So my overall task revolves around the following: I want to create at least the outlines of a story whereby -- at the very least -- the player can be rid of their original patron and replace them with a new one. I also want to suggest this particular God, but I don't want to railroad them into it.
So as a DM, how would you handle this? Is there a specific way in which you would go about creating and/or presenting such a story to the party (and the player in question in particular)?
Would you make the demon relatively weak such as a Shadow Demon since even they would be powerful compared to a Level 1 PC let alone that PC as a child? Or would you make it significantly more powerful?
How would you handle any period where they had no patron? (i.e. if they get rid of the demon but haven't found a new patron).
Would you restrict what sort of patrons they could take? For example, I personally think it's a bit odd for a Warlock to take a Good Deities or Entities (e.g. a Lawful Good Deity or Entity) as their patron. Neutral or Evil Deities or Entities make more sense to me.
Cheers guys
It depends on what sort of arc your player has in mind. If the player is fine having a demonic patron, then no real amount of nudging is going to get them to swap patrons. However, if they want to play out a sort of arc where they are fought over by competing powers, there are interesting places it could go.
As for the demon itself, it could either be an already powerful demon looking for a pawn in some scheme that involves your magical deity, or it could be just a lowly little shadow demon that has aims of gaining power along with the ever increasing sacrifices from its mortal servant.
As for patron choice, outside of the original infernal pact, you may want to look to some pact choices from the new XGE book. There's a divine-like option in there that would be a good swap. I would also caution against having there be a gap between patrons. Unless the player is really up for it, hamstringing the character like that might really impact the fun of playing.
Interesting idea. My initial impression upon first read was perhaps you could have the demon and the god being rivals. The PC could encounter agents of these factions by coincidence, perhaps slowly piecing together something of the story of the opposition of these two supernatural beings. It could be that each wages war through pawns such as this PC, and that luring pawns to the other side is “part of the game”. The other thing to consider is where the god exists within the deity-metaverse. Is it a god because it is within the pantheon of the other gods that exist? Is it simply a being powerful enough to be “god-like”? Or is it a personification of some magical force or primeval magic? The heart of the warlock is that their power source is an external entity of some sort. It really doesn’t matter who or what this external entity is, so long as it is able to grant the requisite power to do warlocky things. Having an idea of what the god actually is might make it easier to figure out whether it is suitable to act as a warlock patron.
I do prefer the idea of a low-level demon fighting up the ranks through becoming the patrons of unsuspecting mortals, but it's something I'll flesh out then present to the player to make sure they like it, too :)
As for the gap without a patron, it's not that I want them to go any length of time without a patron, but let's be honest - this is D&D and players can be unpredictable, meaning that going for a period of time (whether it be in-game hours, days, or longer) has a decent chance of happening.
So the demon could be seeking the knowledge and knowledge of the Arcane Magics that Aspetius possesses in order to acquire the power it desires, but Aspetius is (actively) trying to prevent this. Could be a cool dynamic as well as a 'Plot Hook' that the player could choose to bite if they wish to change their patron from this demon to Aspetius.
I like the player's concept, but I agree with some of the other posters. The entity he has a Pact with should be relatively (insanely powerful to a person, weak for a demon) weak. A middle manager of a demon whose trying to play the game and gain power.
If you and player want the Patron to be present in the game it's an interesting way to lay plot hooks and goals.
Question. Does he want a demon or a devil? The difference being chaotic or lawful.
I do disagree with the idea that the Celestial Pact is any less valid. Nothing says that angels don't have their own personal motives and ambitions. The D&D gods are full of deities that usurp each other, even the good ones. These gods are much more like the Greek and Egyptian gods then how you'd look at the heirachy of a monotheistic religion.
I actually have a Celestial Pact Warlock in a game right now. He's a Tiefling. He wanted to be a paladin to prove that his infernal heritage doesn't stop people from being Heroes, but wasn't allowed in paladin school... because they thought he was "evil". So, he convinced some Clerics to use one of the Contact spells and beseeched a middle manager angel to make a Pact. Now he's a "Gentleman Adventurer".
As for Pacts. One thing I like how about the Dev intent Pacts. They are bargins and can't be revoked, think of the entity's power going into escrow.
Now I do like the idea of being able to change, but I would see it requiring both parties to agree.
Player Agency is really important to me. So with this a Patron can't randomly "take back" power. Heck a Warlock could actively fight his Patron's goals and there is nothing the Patron could do about it, unless the Warlock dies ending the contract.
I guess I like the idea of a Patron going "OK, FINE. You don't want this anymore... what do *I* have to do to have you end this?"
For changing patrons, I agree with the previous mention of the celestial patron from Xanathar's Guide. Time in between patrons feels tricky because there's no set rules or offical guidlines, but that just means you can make it fit the story or stick with simple ideas. First thing that comes to mind would be to strip the player of all the patron specific perks once they break the pact. Spell casting can be kept or lost depending on narrative. Is all the power of magic directly from the patron, or do the spells come from studies done by the individual warlock and, therefore, aren't dependant of a patron at all? Was the bond with the patron so intense and in twining that maybe it left some essence of it's power within the warlock after severing ties? Maybe his powers slowly fade over time until a new patron is found? Talk things like this over with your player, see what ideas he comes up with and think of how you can midigate them fairly. If they lose their abilities between patrons, it'd be neat to send them on a pilgrimage or quest to regain those abilities from their new patron. So long as the player is cool with the challenge of getting temporarily nerfed, that is.
#OpenDnD. #DnDBegone
Can a Warlock Pact Of The Chain get a ABYSSAL CHICKEN?