As the title states I've got a group of players who no matter how much I tell them there more to fighting than attacking. Also they aren't very descriptive on what they say/do. Fyi I'm playing dragon of icespire peak and there at tower of storms and are level 3.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If your eyes tell you what your seeing how do you know there not lying?
What do you expect them to be doing other than attacking? Sure, there are other things to do in combat, but "I attack" is usually not a terrible choice in combat conditions.
You need to give them narrative hints that there are other options to take, and reward them for taking them. Otherwise, sacrificing an attack will seem like a wasted action.
If they are in combat, what exactly do you want them to do?
After the blows start falling it's often too late for negotiation.
Players almost to a fault do NOT run from fights. I've GM'd for a long long time and only once did a party run from a fight. So if you want them to run, do not expect them to even under crushing overwhelming odds, PCs do not run.
For the most part only Rogues benefit from hiding but there is low benefit for that after combat has started.
What do you want them to do?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Sometimes doing those kinds of things to them can be a reminder. Like shoving someone off a cliff. Or grappling the spellcaster so they can’t move their arms to cast. Or throwing oil and then lighting it. But just trying to kill the enemy is often the best tactical move.
Try changing up encounters to provide secondary goals in combat. I don't know the adventure you're running, but some ways to do this could be to have innocent civilians nearby for the party to protect. Another idea would be to impose a time limit, like if an explosive on a timer is set to trigger an avalanche that'll destroy a town below, and the players need to disarm/destroy the explosive in a certain amount of rounds while also trying to hold off or apprehend the bad guy.
Secondary goals tend to help break combat up, and otherwise it can get very locked in once everyone is in melee.
If they are in combat, what exactly do you want them to do?
After the blows start falling it's often too late for negotiation.
Players almost to a fault do NOT run from fights. I've GM'd for a long long time and only once did a party run from a fight. So if you want them to run, do not expect them to even under crushing overwhelming odds, PCs do not run.
For the most part only Rogues benefit from hiding but there is low benefit for that after combat has started.
What do you want them to do?
So what I've manly been thinking to teach them is to make them fight cryvain early to make them realize they need to run. Fyi I mean not at icespire
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If your eyes tell you what your seeing how do you know there not lying?
Sometimes doing those kinds of things to them can be a reminder. Like shoving someone off a cliff. Or grappling the spellcaster so they can’t move their arms to cast. Or throwing oil and then lighting it. But just trying to kill the enemy is often the best tactical move.
This is good advice, thanks
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If your eyes tell you what your seeing how do you know there not lying?
Dnd's combat doesn't really encourage much other than attacking. In particular movement in combat is rare because of the combination of attacks of opportunity and the fact movement has it's own action. If you want them to move you need to motivate it and the incentive needs to be greater than taking a hit.
If they are in combat, what exactly do you want them to do?
After the blows start falling it's often too late for negotiation.
Players almost to a fault do NOT run from fights. I've GM'd for a long long time and only once did a party run from a fight. So if you want them to run, do not expect them to even under crushing overwhelming odds, PCs do not run.
For the most part only Rogues benefit from hiding but there is low benefit for that after combat has started.
What do you want them to do?
So what I've manly been thinking to teach them is to make them fight cryvain early to make them realize they need to run. Fyi I mean not at icespire
The best way to encourage players to run is to have them be unable to attack when the go to fails they need to improvise. A dragon can do this by keeping it's distance and flying in/ out for breath attacks.
The easiest way I found, is to have an NPC travel with them. Then have that NPC do the things you want them to learn to do (modelling the behaviour). In the last campaign I ran, I had an important NPC (one that would become one of the most important NPCs in the campaign) travel with them on their first adventure. I then used that NPC to stimulate conversation between the characters (I'd have the NPC ask questions of them, and make sure everyone participated by having the NPC call them out specifcially). Did the same for combat, instead of the NPC just standing in one spot attacking, they used shove, help actions, dodge, terrain for cover/concealment or unorthodox fighting styles.
It didn't take long for them to start doing it too. I then brought that NPC back for adventures or parts of adventures as they went up in level whenever they needed refreshers.
It worked really well.
[By the way, that NPC turned out to be the Princess in disguise, later became Queen and later still married one of the PCs - the vast majority of that grew out of their first interactions with her (it wasn't planned on my part, at least not at first). And they frequently referred to the fight where the Paladin Princess, wearing no armor, went toe to toe with a Troll for 3 rounds with her having but a single hitpoint remaining all three of those rounds, yet didn't back down and won the fight through her unorthodox style.]
If an encounter can be avoided with parlay, you can suggest them the possibility. If a combat is going against the party, you can suggest them to flee.
Regardless of the options the party choose instead of attacking, an important aspect to remember is to try avoid punish them for doing so or else it will urge them to do the opposite.
If other creatures always strike back when the party tries to parlay or flee they will think twice next time before doing so.
Dnd's combat doesn't really encourage much other than attacking. In particular movement in combat is rare because of the combination of attacks of opportunity and the fact movement has it's own action. If you want them to move you need to motivate it and the incentive needs to be greater than taking a hit.
That can be
Traps and hazards
Alternative win conditions
Cover and terrain advantages
The best way to encourage players to run is to have them be unable to attack when the go to fails they need to improvise. A dragon can do this by keeping it's distance and flying in/ out for breath attacks.
Yah like that or maybe launch one away like off the tower so they go to save them. 3 things happen 1 they die 2 they learn or3 they slay it somehow
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If your eyes tell you what your seeing how do you know there not lying?
Regardless of the options the party choose instead of attacking, an important aspect to remember is to try avoid punish them for doing so or else it will urge them to do the opposite.
If other creatures always strike back when the party tries to parlay or flee they will think twice next time before doing so.
You have a point, I've had one of my two rogues hide for a sneak attack on a manticore and haven't done it since cause after they struck they got sent flying from the manticores tail
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If your eyes tell you what your seeing how do you know there not lying?
As the title states I've got a group of players who no matter how much I tell them there more to fighting than attacking. Also they aren't very descriptive on what they say/do. Fyi I'm playing dragon of icespire peak and there at tower of storms and are level 3.
If your eyes tell you what your seeing how do you know there not lying?
What do you expect them to be doing other than attacking? Sure, there are other things to do in combat, but "I attack" is usually not a terrible choice in combat conditions.
You need to give them narrative hints that there are other options to take, and reward them for taking them. Otherwise, sacrificing an attack will seem like a wasted action.
If they are in combat, what exactly do you want them to do?
After the blows start falling it's often too late for negotiation.
Players almost to a fault do NOT run from fights. I've GM'd for a long long time and only once did a party run from a fight. So if you want them to run, do not expect them to even under crushing overwhelming odds, PCs do not run.
For the most part only Rogues benefit from hiding but there is low benefit for that after combat has started.
What do you want them to do?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Sometimes doing those kinds of things to them can be a reminder. Like shoving someone off a cliff. Or grappling the spellcaster so they can’t move their arms to cast. Or throwing oil and then lighting it. But just trying to kill the enemy is often the best tactical move.
Try changing up encounters to provide secondary goals in combat. I don't know the adventure you're running, but some ways to do this could be to have innocent civilians nearby for the party to protect. Another idea would be to impose a time limit, like if an explosive on a timer is set to trigger an avalanche that'll destroy a town below, and the players need to disarm/destroy the explosive in a certain amount of rounds while also trying to hold off or apprehend the bad guy.
Secondary goals tend to help break combat up, and otherwise it can get very locked in once everyone is in melee.
So what I've manly been thinking to teach them is to make them fight cryvain early to make them realize they need to run. Fyi I mean not at icespire
If your eyes tell you what your seeing how do you know there not lying?
This is good advice, thanks
If your eyes tell you what your seeing how do you know there not lying?
Dnd's combat doesn't really encourage much other than attacking. In particular movement in combat is rare because of the combination of attacks of opportunity and the fact movement has it's own action. If you want them to move you need to motivate it and the incentive needs to be greater than taking a hit.
That can be
The best way to encourage players to run is to have them be unable to attack when the go to fails they need to improvise. A dragon can do this by keeping it's distance and flying in/ out for breath attacks.
The easiest way I found, is to have an NPC travel with them. Then have that NPC do the things you want them to learn to do (modelling the behaviour). In the last campaign I ran, I had an important NPC (one that would become one of the most important NPCs in the campaign) travel with them on their first adventure. I then used that NPC to stimulate conversation between the characters (I'd have the NPC ask questions of them, and make sure everyone participated by having the NPC call them out specifcially). Did the same for combat, instead of the NPC just standing in one spot attacking, they used shove, help actions, dodge, terrain for cover/concealment or unorthodox fighting styles.
It didn't take long for them to start doing it too. I then brought that NPC back for adventures or parts of adventures as they went up in level whenever they needed refreshers.
It worked really well.
[By the way, that NPC turned out to be the Princess in disguise, later became Queen and later still married one of the PCs - the vast majority of that grew out of their first interactions with her (it wasn't planned on my part, at least not at first). And they frequently referred to the fight where the Paladin Princess, wearing no armor, went toe to toe with a Troll for 3 rounds with her having but a single hitpoint remaining all three of those rounds, yet didn't back down and won the fight through her unorthodox style.]
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
If an encounter can be avoided with parlay, you can suggest them the possibility. If a combat is going against the party, you can suggest them to flee.
Regardless of the options the party choose instead of attacking, an important aspect to remember is to try avoid punish them for doing so or else it will urge them to do the opposite.
If other creatures always strike back when the party tries to parlay or flee they will think twice next time before doing so.
Yah like that or maybe launch one away like off the tower so they go to save them. 3 things happen 1 they die 2 they learn or3 they slay it somehow
If your eyes tell you what your seeing how do you know there not lying?
You have a point, I've had one of my two rogues hide for a sneak attack on a manticore and haven't done it since cause after they struck they got sent flying from the manticores tail
If your eyes tell you what your seeing how do you know there not lying?
Sorry I forgot to mention but it's parties of 2 rogues a fighter and a cleric soon to have a sorcerer
If your eyes tell you what your seeing how do you know there not lying?
open up the idea of ranged combat.
Rogues still can get a sneak attack if they work it correctly.
The cleric could buff up the other party members before combat if given a chance.
The fighter should have a way to make their first hit at range then switch to melee. At least a hand ax.at best a long bow.
They might want to learn the full capability of their characters.