Hey guys, i have a question about handling players who comes on too thick with haggling literally every time.
So i have this player in my group who always haggles, and she's new to dnd so i don't expect her to know what's a reasonable price, but we've had like 8 sessions now and she's still doing it.
Story:
So they were at an herbalist in the little starter village, literally level 1, first day of a new campaign. They go into the little herbalist's shop, (who is a 70 year old woman with a cane) and they ask what she has in terms of potions.
I list a few, they ask their prices (pot of invis.: 180g, pot of hill giant strength: 300g, 2 healing pots: 40g each) and they're like that's too steep how about you give us all for 50 gold? Old lady says "lol no". They keep on insisting, "how about the strength one and the healing pots for 40?" "How about the druid grows your herbs faster with druidcraft in a few minutes and you give it to us for free?" etc.
So i take pity on them and want to progress the story so i say ok, give me 20 gold and grow my plants and you can have the healing pots. They're like "OK but give us the other ones too fro free.
I just couldn't take it anymore so i was like ok, consequences: The lady asked them to get out of the store. They didn't go and kept haggling. so random huge bouncer guy comes in with 50hp and a greatclub, saying: The lady asked you to leave so kindly leave. The fighter double hits the bouncer with the butt of her sword, old lady starts running out to get guards.
the druid runs after the old lady and tackles her, pins her to the ground. Next turn, the bouncer misses and the fighter rolls a double nat 20 so i'm like "ok he's knocked out" because what else can i do with 2 nat 20's?
They tie the lady, grab all the pots and start growing the lady's plants because they think if they do the previous deal they can get away with it. So guards come, yelling "get them" and they bolt.
They try hiding in a nearby forest, fighter gets noticed because of armor and they start fighting. 4 guards hold the fighter down, 4 other guards hold the druid, Druid wildshapes into bear (it's a wow homebrew campaign, they have forms at level 1) and the guards are like wtf so they let her go.
So to sum it up druid almost kills 1 guard, but one of the guards had a healing pot so he goes and picks him up. Druid feels bad. They go back to the captain og the guard who "because the party was recommended to him" says that if they dedicate all the payment they're getting for their quest to the lady and the guard's family who they knocked, they get to walk free. (because i didn't want to derail the story.
What would you guys do in this case? Did i handle it poorly? What can i do to make my haggling player realise that she can't just harass everyone with her haggling?
Sounds fair to me - you gave them community service that happens to send them on an interesting adventure, while smoothing over their bad behavior in town. Maybe play up the pariah status, the disturbance is hot gossip, and other storekeepers either bar the party from entry, or set a firm no haggling policy up front. Show consequences of their actions in the change of attitude NPCs have towards them. Add in a sob story that the herbalist is beloved in the town, and often gives her services away for free or for what people can spare when the stakes arehigh. Adventurers paying full price helps her break even.
Potentially, the aggressive haggling could be softened if it was a cultural difference - that character might be from an area where it is expected, while this area gives non-negotiable prices up front.
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Currently homebrewing the Mistveil Rogue, an elusive infiltrator that can vanish into thin air.
Sounds pretty fair. Of course no other business in town will work with them is a possibility leading to sleeping in the woods (random encounters) no food store (survival checks to eat) no restocking of equipment. Lucky the result wasn't the town guard hunting them and being branded as outlaws in surrounding towns.
I'd have an out of game discussion about expectations. Explain that Persuasion does not equal mind control, and that when haggling for the price of something, shopkeepers aren't going to under any circumstances just give stuff away for free.
In the example of the druid growing the herbs, the shopkeeper would at best break even on that deal, and shopkeepers don't set up shop just to break even, they need to make a profit.
When talking about a successful haggle, you're talking about convincing someone to give you a percentage (10 or 12 max) off the price. "Give me everything for half the price of one of them" isn't a haggle, that's just madness. Same as if I walked up to someone in town square and said "give me all your possessions"-- no amount of skill at persuasion will make that work. It is simply unreasonable.
Sounds like you handled it fine, but I'd try to find some time outside of game to talk to the player about this. Keep it light, make it clear you're not upset with them for just trying to have fun, but also make it clear that you find the aggressive haggling disruptive to the flow of the game.
Try to come up with a clear boundary for how much haggling is acceptable; maybe agree to have NPCs always use the phrase "That's my final offer" when you want to low-key signal to the player, "Hey, please let me move this along". Most players are agreeable and don't want to be disruptive, but I find that new players especially have a problem knowing when their fun bits are not actually fun for everyone at the table. Bringing them into your confidence and establishing a boundary -- which you can subtly enforce with an agreed upon phrase -- is usually a good way to help them help you. Remember that you want to foster trust and cooperation, not put them on blast.
She's pushing you to see how much she can get away with. Pulling the I'm your girlfriend, give me whatever I want.
Try to have a reasonable conversation about the party doing disruptive things to the townsfolk is not fun for you and will have consequences in game. How does it make sense to demand cheap prices then attack the vendor and a guard?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I set reasonable limits on how much the price can be reduced and it's linked to a Persuasion check. (Can be Deception or Intimidation.) Reducing 560 gold worth of potions down to 40 gold is unreasonable. 380 gold down to 40 gold is also unreasonable.
So set up whatever rules you think are fair and let your girlfriend know what they are. Something like:
I set reasonable limits on how much the price can be reduced and it's linked to a Persuasion check. (Can be Deception or Intimidation.) Reducing 560 gold worth of potions down to 40 gold is unreasonable. 380 gold down to 40 gold is also unreasonable.
So set up whatever rules you think are fair and let your girlfriend know what they are. Something like:
less than 15 there's no discount.
15 to 20 a ten percent discount.
21 to 25 a fifteen percent.
26 to 29 a twenty percent.
30+ a twenty-five percent.
Just to expand on this idea...The way I did haggling in my last game to have the player roll a charisma persuasion/intimidation/deception check (depending on how the pc was trying to influence the merchant) and have their roll dictate the maximum discount the merchant would give, so if a PC rolls a 15 then the max discount the merchant would give them would be 15% BUT remember each merchant wants to make money so their "best price" will still make them a profit and this price is one they won't go below so they won't get things for free.
Also, as others note, definetly remind the players that the fantasy world has laws and assaulting merchants, their other patrons or security will have consequences.
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* Need a character idea? Search for "Rob76's Unused" in the Story and Lore section.
You did well. You gave the characters consequences. That's perfection.
I agree with others on setting reasonable expectations and making it a roll. When you call for the roll, you create a pass/fail situation that most players can accept as final. In my Session Zero sessions, I tell my players their characters can try anything, but a roll of 20 won't let them do everything. Then, I cite two examples:
PC: "My character wants to make a running jump to cross the Grand Canyon." DM: "OK, let's roll falling damage. Kidding. Your character falls a mile and dies."
PC: "I want to Intimidate/Persuade the King to give me all the gold in his treasury. I rolled a 25!" DM: "The king laughs and almost falls out of his chair. 'I like you. You're my kind of funny!' he says. Your wild success has prevented him from reacting in a hostile manner and having you jailed."
Each set clear examples that the world will do its best to make sense. Sure, try anything! But expect realistic responses!
Sounds like you handled it well to me. You set up a perfectly reasonable shopping session, the players decided to FAFO and there were consequences. The only other thing I would do would be to have the rest of the village reluctant to do business with them. Not outright refuse, since they are doing "community service" to atone as it were, but definitely raise the DC on any checks for future haggling to reflect their reputation about town now.
I set reasonable limits on how much the price can be reduced and it's linked to a Persuasion check. (Can be Deception or Intimidation.) Reducing 560 gold worth of potions down to 40 gold is unreasonable. 380 gold down to 40 gold is also unreasonable.
So set up whatever rules you think are fair and let your girlfriend know what they are. Something like:
less than 15 there's no discount.
15 to 20 a ten percent discount.
21 to 25 a fifteen percent.
26 to 29 a twenty percent.
30+ a twenty-five percent.
Just to expand on this idea...The way I did haggling in my last game to have the player roll a charisma persuasion/intimidation/deception check (depending on how the pc was trying to influence the merchant) and have their roll dictate the maximum discount the merchant would give, so if a PC rolls a 15 then the max discount the merchant would give them would be 15% BUT remember each merchant wants to make money so their "best price" will still make them a profit and this price is one they won't go below so they won't get things for free.
Also, as others note, definetly remind the players that the fantasy world has laws and assaulting merchants, their other patrons or security will have consequences.
Expanding on this expanding:
Another thing to think of is that maybe the fantasy of being a great haggler is part of the fun for your players, and there's nothing necessarily wrong about letting them.
But, to make it meaningful, start prices out much higher-- like double--than they would normally be and allow players to talk the shopkeeper down to what you as the DM would've listed it anyways.
That way the players gain the satisfaction of knowing they are "savvy negotiators" and you still get to know that you're not overpowering your players by just giving them gear for basically free all the time.
If too much haggling to your taste occur in your game, you can always discuss this issue with your players and explain you don't have much fun when it drags the game like past sessions and as DM you wish to simplify trades as much as possible to carry on adventuring. You can establish that merchants usually sell gears, armors, weapons, gemstones, art objects etc. at PHB listed price and buy them at half price for example. This would reduce a lot of it instantly.
It sounds to me as though you handled it about as well as you could. You imposed reasonable consequences for their actions though the captain of the guard let them off lightly. Attacking and almost killing townsfolk, merchants and guards is a quick way to get labeled as a bandit (or murder hobo).
Another consideration would be whether the players consider giving up their reward as any sort of punishment. With some parties, some characters would say, "No Rewards for me then I'm out of here ... let's find something more rewarding to do." ... depending on the level of organization within the society you have created, the characters might be able to just wander off to the next town to avoid the consequences. Doing some sort of community service as a punishment only works if the characters/players care about that consequence.
In terms of dealing with it longer term, you should have an out of character discussion with the players telling them how the society in the game world works. NPCs need to make a living. They sell goods at a profit and use the proceeds to pay rent/buy food/support their families. Trying to force them to give unreasonable discounts just isn't going to work since the NPC can't afford to do it. It isn't the DM giving the players stuff through some thinly veiled NPC vendor bot ... NPCs, even merchants or someone walking down the street, have a personality and backstory too. You can often find parties doing "unreasonable" things because they don't really understand how the game world functions and the consequences to the characters for in game actions.
That said, there are cultures today where haggling is a part of daily business, where a 50% mark up might be typical when a stranger enters the store since if the stranger pays it because they lack the knowledge about the items value then the merchant makes a tidy profit. If not, the merchant and the purchaser haggle to determine a final price with the purchaser trying not to insult the merchant by offering too little but also trying to offer low enough that they don't overypay while the merchant tries to talk the purchaser into paying as much as possible. In your example though, all the "haggling" was really some scheme to steal the merchandise for a pittance.
Another aspect for you to consider is what is the actual value of the item being sold which would be the minimum that a merchant could afford to sell the item for .. this gets into game world economy which is a bit broken to start with.
Consider the following comparison ... a longsword is 15gp ... it takes the time and effort of a skilled craftsman (black smith) to create a longsword - acquiring the metal, converting the raw iron into steel, owning a forge and smithy, training to make the items, time hammering, folding, creating an edge, tempering, sharpening - creating an item that is flexible but strong, not brittle and which won't break the first time it strikes armor or something else hard. I'm not an expert but typically this might take a week for one sword - especially considering the need to smelt the iron and create the steel to make the sword in the first place (or the smith buys the steel which then adds to the cost).
So, what goes into a healing potion that makes it so valuable? A healing potion is in the PHB at 50gp. Three times the cost of a long sword. This would tend to indicate that finding and processing the herbs or other materials needed for one potion can take weeks, making healing potions rare and valuable. There could also be price inflation due to the demand by Adventurer's. Healing potions save lives. Adventurers tend to be rich and can afford the cost. The PHB gives lifestyle costs of 1gp/day for Modest and 2gp/day for Comfortable. A typical merchant would need to make 10+gp a week to maintain a Comfortable lifestyle for themselves. Extra for any family members.
The point of this is that potions can be rare and valuable, costing a significant amount of time and resources to create. If the players understand that a bit then it might also help with their preference for haggling.
P.S. One more thing :)
You mentioned "Next turn, the bouncer misses and the fighter rolls a double nat 20 so i'm like "ok he's knocked out" because what else can i do with 2 nat 20's?" What else you can do with two nat 20s is treat them exactly like they are - nat 20s are critical hits. A nat 20 doesn't do anything more, you don't need to make nat 20s do anything more than what they say they do .. in fact, setting up a precedent that nat 20s (even two in a row) do extra cool things will likely become a problem because the players will expect some extra cool benefit (like an instant "I win" button) to happen. Ideally, this is probably something you want to avoid .. have cool and unusual things happen in response to players taking some cool and unusual action, try to avoid die rolls driving the narrative (though it can be fun to do from time to time, it is an expectation that you probably want to avoid in the long run).
Anyway, if the two crits were enough to knock the bouncer to zero hit points (or close to it) anyway then it just made for a dramatic moment and knocking the bouncer out didn't change anything. On the other hand, if the bouncer would have been still more or less healthy after the two crits then you helped the plot go off the rails by not allowing the bouncer to do their job and effectively escalated the encounter.
Hey guys, i have a question about handling players who comes on too thick with haggling literally every time.
So i have this player in my group who always haggles, and she's new to dnd so i don't expect her to know what's a reasonable price, but we've had like 8 sessions now and she's still doing it.
Story:
So they were at an herbalist in the little starter village, literally level 1, first day of a new campaign. They go into the little herbalist's shop, (who is a 70 year old woman with a cane) and they ask what she has in terms of potions.
I list a few, they ask their prices (pot of invis.: 180g, pot of hill giant strength: 300g, 2 healing pots: 40g each) and they're like that's too steep how about you give us all for 50 gold? Old lady says "lol no". They keep on insisting, "how about the strength one and the healing pots for 40?" "How about the druid grows your herbs faster with druidcraft in a few minutes and you give it to us for free?" etc.
So i take pity on them and want to progress the story so i say ok, give me 20 gold and grow my plants and you can have the healing pots. They're like "OK but give us the other ones too fro free.
I just couldn't take it anymore so i was like ok, consequences: The lady asked them to get out of the store. They didn't go and kept haggling. so random huge bouncer guy comes in with 50hp and a greatclub, saying: The lady asked you to leave so kindly leave. The fighter double hits the bouncer with the butt of her sword, old lady starts running out to get guards.
the druid runs after the old lady and tackles her, pins her to the ground. Next turn, the bouncer misses and the fighter rolls a double nat 20 so i'm like "ok he's knocked out" because what else can i do with 2 nat 20's?
They tie the lady, grab all the pots and start growing the lady's plants because they think if they do the previous deal they can get away with it. So guards come, yelling "get them" and they bolt.
They try hiding in a nearby forest, fighter gets noticed because of armor and they start fighting. 4 guards hold the fighter down, 4 other guards hold the druid, Druid wildshapes into bear (it's a wow homebrew campaign, they have forms at level 1) and the guards are like wtf so they let her go.
So to sum it up druid almost kills 1 guard, but one of the guards had a healing pot so he goes and picks him up. Druid feels bad. They go back to the captain og the guard who "because the party was recommended to him" says that if they dedicate all the payment they're getting for their quest to the lady and the guard's family who they knocked, they get to walk free. (because i didn't want to derail the story.
What would you guys do in this case? Did i handle it poorly? What can i do to make my haggling player realise that she can't just harass everyone with her haggling?
P.S. the haggling player is my girlfriend i can't just make her leave the group. lol
Sounds fair to me - you gave them community service that happens to send them on an interesting adventure, while smoothing over their bad behavior in town. Maybe play up the pariah status, the disturbance is hot gossip, and other storekeepers either bar the party from entry, or set a firm no haggling policy up front. Show consequences of their actions in the change of attitude NPCs have towards them. Add in a sob story that the herbalist is beloved in the town, and often gives her services away for free or for what people can spare when the stakes are high. Adventurers paying full price helps her break even.
Potentially, the aggressive haggling could be softened if it was a cultural difference - that character might be from an area where it is expected, while this area gives non-negotiable prices up front.
Currently homebrewing the Mistveil Rogue, an elusive infiltrator that can vanish into thin air.
Sounds pretty fair. Of course no other business in town will work with them is a possibility leading to sleeping in the woods (random encounters) no food store (survival checks to eat) no restocking of equipment. Lucky the result wasn't the town guard hunting them and being branded as outlaws in surrounding towns.
I'd have an out of game discussion about expectations. Explain that Persuasion does not equal mind control, and that when haggling for the price of something, shopkeepers aren't going to under any circumstances just give stuff away for free.
In the example of the druid growing the herbs, the shopkeeper would at best break even on that deal, and shopkeepers don't set up shop just to break even, they need to make a profit.
When talking about a successful haggle, you're talking about convincing someone to give you a percentage (10 or 12 max) off the price. "Give me everything for half the price of one of them" isn't a haggle, that's just madness. Same as if I walked up to someone in town square and said "give me all your possessions"-- no amount of skill at persuasion will make that work. It is simply unreasonable.
Sounds like you handled it fine, but I'd try to find some time outside of game to talk to the player about this. Keep it light, make it clear you're not upset with them for just trying to have fun, but also make it clear that you find the aggressive haggling disruptive to the flow of the game.
Try to come up with a clear boundary for how much haggling is acceptable; maybe agree to have NPCs always use the phrase "That's my final offer" when you want to low-key signal to the player, "Hey, please let me move this along". Most players are agreeable and don't want to be disruptive, but I find that new players especially have a problem knowing when their fun bits are not actually fun for everyone at the table. Bringing them into your confidence and establishing a boundary -- which you can subtly enforce with an agreed upon phrase -- is usually a good way to help them help you. Remember that you want to foster trust and cooperation, not put them on blast.
She's pushing you to see how much she can get away with. Pulling the I'm your girlfriend, give me whatever I want.
Try to have a reasonable conversation about the party doing disruptive things to the townsfolk is not fun for you and will have consequences in game. How does it make sense to demand cheap prices then attack the vendor and a guard?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I set reasonable limits on how much the price can be reduced and it's linked to a Persuasion check. (Can be Deception or Intimidation.) Reducing 560 gold worth of potions down to 40 gold is unreasonable. 380 gold down to 40 gold is also unreasonable.
So set up whatever rules you think are fair and let your girlfriend know what they are. Something like:
Just to expand on this idea...The way I did haggling in my last game to have the player roll a charisma persuasion/intimidation/deception check (depending on how the pc was trying to influence the merchant) and have their roll dictate the maximum discount the merchant would give, so if a PC rolls a 15 then the max discount the merchant would give them would be 15% BUT remember each merchant wants to make money so their "best price" will still make them a profit and this price is one they won't go below so they won't get things for free.
Also, as others note, definetly remind the players that the fantasy world has laws and assaulting merchants, their other patrons or security will have consequences.
You did well. You gave the characters consequences. That's perfection.
I agree with others on setting reasonable expectations and making it a roll. When you call for the roll, you create a pass/fail situation that most players can accept as final. In my Session Zero sessions, I tell my players their characters can try anything, but a roll of 20 won't let them do everything. Then, I cite two examples:
PC: "My character wants to make a running jump to cross the Grand Canyon."
DM: "OK, let's roll falling damage. Kidding. Your character falls a mile and dies."
PC: "I want to Intimidate/Persuade the King to give me all the gold in his treasury. I rolled a 25!"
DM: "The king laughs and almost falls out of his chair. 'I like you. You're my kind of funny!' he says. Your wild success has prevented him from reacting in a hostile manner and having you jailed."
Each set clear examples that the world will do its best to make sense. Sure, try anything! But expect realistic responses!
Sounds like you handled it well to me. You set up a perfectly reasonable shopping session, the players decided to FAFO and there were consequences. The only other thing I would do would be to have the rest of the village reluctant to do business with them. Not outright refuse, since they are doing "community service" to atone as it were, but definitely raise the DC on any checks for future haggling to reflect their reputation about town now.
Expanding on this expanding:
Another thing to think of is that maybe the fantasy of being a great haggler is part of the fun for your players, and there's nothing necessarily wrong about letting them.
But, to make it meaningful, start prices out much higher-- like double--than they would normally be and allow players to talk the shopkeeper down to what you as the DM would've listed it anyways.
That way the players gain the satisfaction of knowing they are "savvy negotiators" and you still get to know that you're not overpowering your players by just giving them gear for basically free all the time.
If too much haggling to your taste occur in your game, you can always discuss this issue with your players and explain you don't have much fun when it drags the game like past sessions and as DM you wish to simplify trades as much as possible to carry on adventuring. You can establish that merchants usually sell gears, armors, weapons, gemstones, art objects etc. at PHB listed price and buy them at half price for example. This would reduce a lot of it instantly.
It sounds to me as though you handled it about as well as you could. You imposed reasonable consequences for their actions though the captain of the guard let them off lightly. Attacking and almost killing townsfolk, merchants and guards is a quick way to get labeled as a bandit (or murder hobo).
Another consideration would be whether the players consider giving up their reward as any sort of punishment. With some parties, some characters would say, "No Rewards for me then I'm out of here ... let's find something more rewarding to do." ... depending on the level of organization within the society you have created, the characters might be able to just wander off to the next town to avoid the consequences. Doing some sort of community service as a punishment only works if the characters/players care about that consequence.
In terms of dealing with it longer term, you should have an out of character discussion with the players telling them how the society in the game world works. NPCs need to make a living. They sell goods at a profit and use the proceeds to pay rent/buy food/support their families. Trying to force them to give unreasonable discounts just isn't going to work since the NPC can't afford to do it. It isn't the DM giving the players stuff through some thinly veiled NPC vendor bot ... NPCs, even merchants or someone walking down the street, have a personality and backstory too. You can often find parties doing "unreasonable" things because they don't really understand how the game world functions and the consequences to the characters for in game actions.
That said, there are cultures today where haggling is a part of daily business, where a 50% mark up might be typical when a stranger enters the store since if the stranger pays it because they lack the knowledge about the items value then the merchant makes a tidy profit. If not, the merchant and the purchaser haggle to determine a final price with the purchaser trying not to insult the merchant by offering too little but also trying to offer low enough that they don't overypay while the merchant tries to talk the purchaser into paying as much as possible. In your example though, all the "haggling" was really some scheme to steal the merchandise for a pittance.
Another aspect for you to consider is what is the actual value of the item being sold which would be the minimum that a merchant could afford to sell the item for .. this gets into game world economy which is a bit broken to start with.
Consider the following comparison ... a longsword is 15gp ... it takes the time and effort of a skilled craftsman (black smith) to create a longsword - acquiring the metal, converting the raw iron into steel, owning a forge and smithy, training to make the items, time hammering, folding, creating an edge, tempering, sharpening - creating an item that is flexible but strong, not brittle and which won't break the first time it strikes armor or something else hard. I'm not an expert but typically this might take a week for one sword - especially considering the need to smelt the iron and create the steel to make the sword in the first place (or the smith buys the steel which then adds to the cost).
So, what goes into a healing potion that makes it so valuable? A healing potion is in the PHB at 50gp. Three times the cost of a long sword. This would tend to indicate that finding and processing the herbs or other materials needed for one potion can take weeks, making healing potions rare and valuable. There could also be price inflation due to the demand by Adventurer's. Healing potions save lives. Adventurers tend to be rich and can afford the cost. The PHB gives lifestyle costs of 1gp/day for Modest and 2gp/day for Comfortable. A typical merchant would need to make 10+gp a week to maintain a Comfortable lifestyle for themselves. Extra for any family members.
The point of this is that potions can be rare and valuable, costing a significant amount of time and resources to create. If the players understand that a bit then it might also help with their preference for haggling.
P.S. One more thing :)
You mentioned "Next turn, the bouncer misses and the fighter rolls a double nat 20 so i'm like "ok he's knocked out" because what else can i do with 2 nat 20's?" What else you can do with two nat 20s is treat them exactly like they are - nat 20s are critical hits. A nat 20 doesn't do anything more, you don't need to make nat 20s do anything more than what they say they do .. in fact, setting up a precedent that nat 20s (even two in a row) do extra cool things will likely become a problem because the players will expect some extra cool benefit (like an instant "I win" button) to happen. Ideally, this is probably something you want to avoid .. have cool and unusual things happen in response to players taking some cool and unusual action, try to avoid die rolls driving the narrative (though it can be fun to do from time to time, it is an expectation that you probably want to avoid in the long run).
Anyway, if the two crits were enough to knock the bouncer to zero hit points (or close to it) anyway then it just made for a dramatic moment and knocking the bouncer out didn't change anything. On the other hand, if the bouncer would have been still more or less healthy after the two crits then you helped the plot go off the rails by not allowing the bouncer to do their job and effectively escalated the encounter.