New DM here! I am going to be running one-shot for five of my more experienced friends (all have DM'd before) and I am having a bit of trouble figuring out how I want to handle the final encounter.
Essentially, I planned on having the final encounter be a Lich the party will have to face so I had originally planned to set the player level at a higher level (13-15) but the players in my party have since advised against it since it's my first time DMing, and recommended I start it at level 8. They don't know what I have planned for my final encounter since I wanted to keep it a surprise but now I am struggling with how to make it more balanced for the players since the Lich has such a higher level and CR.
I have had other friends not in the session advise me to keep the Lich as is and just beef up my party with items/gear, and I have had other friends state I should scale down the Lich to make it easier for the party. I am not sure which would be better, because I don't want to make the encounter too hard or too easy because both would be rather unfun for the players. Any advice is greatly appreciated!
Well, other than maybe just using a different boss (a lich is not only problematic from a power level, it's also quite hard to run), I would probably scale down the lich.
New DM here! I am going to be running one-shot for five of my more experienced friends (all have DM'd before) and I am having a bit of trouble figuring out how I want to handle the final encounter.
Essentially, I planned on having the final encounter be a Lich the party will have to face so I had originally planned to set the player level at a higher level (13-15) but the players in my party have since advised against it since it's my first time DMing, and recommended I start it at level 8. They don't know what I have planned for my final encounter since I wanted to keep it a surprise but now I am struggling with how to make it more balanced for the players since the Lich has such a higher level and CR.
I have had other friends not in the session advise me to keep the Lich as is and just beef up my party with items/gear, and I have had other friends state I should scale down the Lich to make it easier for the party. I am not sure which would be better, because I don't want to make the encounter too hard or too easy because both would be rather unfun for the players. Any advice is greatly appreciated!
To be honest, I would need to know what encounters you have planned for that day and the class/subclass of the PCs. For example in 2014 a Gloomstalker Ranger/fighter and a Twilight Cleric can throw the challenge all over the place. (Cleric basically is healing everyone every round). A gloomstalker/fighter with the right feats can end up doing like 120+ damage in round one.
First thing, I would have recommended to go with a level one game to get use to things. The friends who told you to keep the Lich at its current power are just giving you bad advice straight up. Power Word Kill should straight up kill any PC in the group. Not even the Barbarian is going to have more than 100hp at Level 8. A well placed Disintegrate is going to wipe a character off the board as well.
With that said at 135 hp, Its just not going to last long with the right builds. So by itself it is going to either TPK the party or die way too fast to be a challenge for them. A Gloomstalker/Fighter could end the LIch before it does anything. But if the LIch wins initiative, it could end the PCs. Paralyzing Touch is going to likely paralyze a PC for at least a round.
You can lower the lich, but honestly I would probably go with something else. LIke the LIch needs additional monsters with it to keep it from dying in round one. But additional monsters are just going to TPK the party with bad luck.
I'll gladly offer better advice once I know what PCs are going to be playing and the other encounters you have planned for that adventuring day. But I think going with something else would be a good idea.
Also Note: Most of the monsters with Immunity or resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from non-magical attacks (which if your party doesn't have magic Items a Linch is autokill) need their HP adjusted because the game accounts for them taking half/or no damage and so they have way to low Hp.
If I was going to edit it, I would probably have only Spell levels 1-4/5. Keep Paralyzing Touch, but make it +8 to hit and change the DC to 15ish. Change all the DCs to 15.
If the party is not going to have magical weapons, I would change the immunities to resistances. And depending on what is going with the Lich in combat, you need to do something with its HP as it isn't going to survive two rounds.
For example my current Level 5 party of 4 does about 40-50 points of damage per round, and that is on the low side because the Twilight cleric usually has to spend a round getting set up.
A lich, like most spellcasting monsters, is a glass cannon (though with 135 hp, base AC 17, and shield it probably won't go down instantly). It also has a bad spell list, but officially its CR is not changed for adjusting its spell list, which can cause problems if the DM swaps out its bad spells for good spells.
With its standard spell list, it just auto-kills (no save) one PC on turn 1 with power word kill, and it has finger of death and disintegrate in reserve, both of which are probably one-hit kills. The PCs might still win, see glass cannon, but in general glass cannons do not make for fun boss fights.
If you want to keep the feel of a Lich as an enemy but suitable for level 8 party I'd advise a slightly modified Eldritch Lich from the Spelljammer books (you should be able to find the statblock via Google). It's a CR 15 but with a much easier to use statblock - fewer spells and more abilities. To modify it for a level 8 party just remove the "Parasitic Tentacle" attack - that probably isn't thematic for your dungeon anyway, and decrease it's DCs by 1. However it is still glass-cannon-y so make sure you have the fight in a room where it can use it's Far step reaction to teleport behind pillars or walls to gain cover from the party.
Alternatively, I recommend running a level 3 or level 5 one-shot. Both levels give players enough tools to avoid player deaths if you accidentally put them up against enemies who are too dangerous, without having so many abilities or MC options that you'll have trouble challenging the players.
New DM here! I am going to be running one-shot for five of my more experienced friends (all have DM'd before) and I am having a bit of trouble figuring out how I want to handle the final encounter.
Essentially, I planned on having the final encounter be a Lich the party will have to face so I had originally planned to set the player level at a higher level (13-15) but the players in my party have since advised against it since it's my first time DMing, and recommended I start it at level 8. They don't know what I have planned for my final encounter since I wanted to keep it a surprise but now I am struggling with how to make it more balanced for the players since the Lich has such a higher level and CR.
I have had other friends not in the session advise me to keep the Lich as is and just beef up my party with items/gear, and I have had other friends state I should scale down the Lich to make it easier for the party. I am not sure which would be better, because I don't want to make the encounter too hard or too easy because both would be rather unfun for the players. Any advice is greatly appreciated!
Well, other than maybe just using a different boss (a lich is not only problematic from a power level, it's also quite hard to run), I would probably scale down the lich.
To be honest, I would need to know what encounters you have planned for that day and the class/subclass of the PCs. For example in 2014 a Gloomstalker Ranger/fighter and a Twilight Cleric can throw the challenge all over the place. (Cleric basically is healing everyone every round). A gloomstalker/fighter with the right feats can end up doing like 120+ damage in round one.
First thing, I would have recommended to go with a level one game to get use to things. The friends who told you to keep the Lich at its current power are just giving you bad advice straight up. Power Word Kill should straight up kill any PC in the group. Not even the Barbarian is going to have more than 100hp at Level 8. A well placed Disintegrate is going to wipe a character off the board as well.
With that said at 135 hp, Its just not going to last long with the right builds. So by itself it is going to either TPK the party or die way too fast to be a challenge for them. A Gloomstalker/Fighter could end the LIch before it does anything. But if the LIch wins initiative, it could end the PCs. Paralyzing Touch is going to likely paralyze a PC for at least a round.
You can lower the lich, but honestly I would probably go with something else. LIke the LIch needs additional monsters with it to keep it from dying in round one. But additional monsters are just going to TPK the party with bad luck.
I'll gladly offer better advice once I know what PCs are going to be playing and the other encounters you have planned for that adventuring day. But I think going with something else would be a good idea.
Also Note: Most of the monsters with Immunity or resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from non-magical attacks (which if your party doesn't have magic Items a Linch is autokill) need their HP adjusted because the game accounts for them taking half/or no damage and so they have way to low Hp.
If I was going to edit it, I would probably have only Spell levels 1-4/5. Keep Paralyzing Touch, but make it +8 to hit and change the DC to 15ish. Change all the DCs to 15.
If the party is not going to have magical weapons, I would change the immunities to resistances. And depending on what is going with the Lich in combat, you need to do something with its HP as it isn't going to survive two rounds.
For example my current Level 5 party of 4 does about 40-50 points of damage per round, and that is on the low side because the Twilight cleric usually has to spend a round getting set up.
A lich, like most spellcasting monsters, is a glass cannon (though with 135 hp, base AC 17, and shield it probably won't go down instantly). It also has a bad spell list, but officially its CR is not changed for adjusting its spell list, which can cause problems if the DM swaps out its bad spells for good spells.
With its standard spell list, it just auto-kills (no save) one PC on turn 1 with power word kill, and it has finger of death and disintegrate in reserve, both of which are probably one-hit kills. The PCs might still win, see glass cannon, but in general glass cannons do not make for fun boss fights.
If you want to keep the feel of a Lich as an enemy but suitable for level 8 party I'd advise a slightly modified Eldritch Lich from the Spelljammer books (you should be able to find the statblock via Google). It's a CR 15 but with a much easier to use statblock - fewer spells and more abilities. To modify it for a level 8 party just remove the "Parasitic Tentacle" attack - that probably isn't thematic for your dungeon anyway, and decrease it's DCs by 1. However it is still glass-cannon-y so make sure you have the fight in a room where it can use it's Far step reaction to teleport behind pillars or walls to gain cover from the party.
Alternatively, I recommend running a level 3 or level 5 one-shot. Both levels give players enough tools to avoid player deaths if you accidentally put them up against enemies who are too dangerous, without having so many abilities or MC options that you'll have trouble challenging the players.