Bored on a bus trip and thinking about a campaign I'm writing and for some strange reason I invented a card game for the PC's to play in a gambling den, aka Temple to Norebo. I have zero interest in card or board games generally so have absolutely no understanding of what is good, bad, ugly, etc. I'm literally drawing on no experience, no underlying knowledge, nothing, just pure making stuff up.
Hence why I'm asking for feedback. For all I know, this game could be close to or even identical to something that already exists in which case by all means point that out and I'll probably just use that instead. But if it's not then I'd appreciate knowing if it has holes in its logic and could stall or would just be interminably boring or, honestly, whatever problems you can think of. If it's utterly horrendous and a waste of my time, all four hours that I've spent on it, then maybe I should know that too. You know, kindly.
Anyway, here it is in all its potentially ugly glory:
Cops and Dobbers
This game is known under several other names and there are numerous rules variations across the Flanaess depending on cultural sensitivities and historical attitudes. This version is the most common and the conceit of it assumes that most people are operatives in a criminal underworld where the only valorous individuals are representative of the state, upstanding citizenry, or those who turn on their criminal brethren.
It is not known where this game was originally conceived but it was popularised in old Aerdi Kingdom times amongst the bored nobility who all prided themselves on being loyal to the state. Their version was called Knights and Dragons with the 'Cop' being the Knight and the 'Dobber' being the Dragon.
In the Free City of Greyhawk there is a version called Rebels and Rousers with the roles of Cop and Dobber reversed so that Rousers are considered the 'Cop' and Rebels the 'Dobber' and the obvious connotations of positive and negative also being reversed.
The game's current popularity can probably be attributed to how profitable it is for gambling houses. They have to contribute little other the playing space, beverages for sale, maybe some food or snacks, and a bit of security to prevent any violence from the participants. Despite it being relatively easy for the House to cheat by planting players in games it is in their best interest not to as reputations for fair and safe games can wither quickly, turning a profitable den into a dead one overnight.
The game can be played with a minimum of two and up to twenty-six participants. There are numerous variants which limit play to three, ten or thirteen participants. Even amongst these variants the amount of cards used in the Cover deck can vary. The most common version of the game has a two to ten player limit with a twenty card Cover deck and that is what is detailed here.
To start, everyone first agrees as to what currency is used for contributions to the pot and whether or not the pot goes to the House or continues to grow until claimed. This, however, substantially changes how players balance the risks and so should be a consideration whenever starting a game. The pot has different names depending on the version being played. The most common term is the Hoard. Copper, Silver, Gold or Platinum coinage is the most common contribution currency with each contribution usually being one coin. Any variation is dependent on the players.
In private games the 'House' is whomever is hosting the game, most often an inn or tavern that is not a formal gambling establishment, and is usually what pays for the labour as well as the drinks and food consumed during play.
There are two decks in all versions. In this version the Cover deck has twenty cards (ace to ten of a black and a red suit) and the Undercover deck has twenty-two cards (ace to ten of the remaining suits plus a black and a red Joker). Dealers are chosen randomly by whatever means is agreeable to the group, usually dice, and it's common for the dealer to change for every game played, rotating clockwise, anti-clockwise or randomly determined as agreed before start of play.
The Cover deck only has Professions in it. There are no doubles of any Profession within the Cover deck. With a real world deck with a ten player limit and twenty card Cover deck this would be represented using the ace to ten cards of one red and one black suit. In Greyhawk decks, these are all individually named and usually of commoner professions.
The Undercover deck has all Professions in it as well but has two additional cards, a Cop and a Dobber. Thus even with twenty-six players using a twenty-six card Cover deck, it is possible to have both a Cop and a Dobber in a game, to not have either a Cop or a Dobber, or to just have one of either in any game. No player in a game will know for sure until the game ends. The amount of players in a game and how many cards make up the Cover deck are therefore significant factors in the choices that players make as they alter the chances of there being a Cop, Dobber, both, or neither in any given game as well as how many Professions can mix or match between Cover and Undercover cards.
Decks in the Greyhawk setting are made specifically for this game but using a real world deck then the same colour of the same rank of card is considered the same Profession in each deck, i.e. if the Cover deck has Spades and Hearts then the Undercover equivalent for Spades would be the same ranking card of Clubs and for Hearts, Diamonds. So an Ace of Spades from the Cover deck would be the same Profession as the Ace of Clubs from the Undercover deck.
The game is ended under a wide variety of circumstances with many different possible outcomes. The point is to either retain a claim to a share of the Hoard by the time the game is ended and the Hoard is distributed, or to deny everyone else a share and claim the entire Hoard for yourself.
The game is begun by each player first making a contribution to the Hoard.
The decks are then shuffled separately by the dealer. Each player is dealt an Undercover card face down. Once everyone has an Undercover card, each player checks what their Profession is, places the Undercover card back down and then a Cover card is dealt face up atop the Undercover cards.
Next the starting player is chosen. There is no set rule but randomness and fairness is generally favoured. Dice are the main go to due to ease and availability. Like with dealing, the starting player in further games can be rotated or randomly determined, as decided by the group.
On each player's turn they must make a contribution of the agreed value to the Hoard unless gameplay has changed their circumstances in any of the ways detailed below.
The player whose turn it is and who still has these options available to them, chooses whether to pass, question or accuse.
If they pass then the turn shifts to the next valid player to the left of them.
Instead they can either question or accuse the first valid player to their right.
Accusing a player comes with risk but also potential reward. The Accused must reveal their Undercover card. They place their Undercover card atop their Cover card perpendicular to it so as to ensure everyone knows they revealed. If their Undercover card is the Cop card then the game ends and the Hoard goes to the State, i.e. the gambling establishment.
If the Undercover card of the Accused is a Dobber, however, then the Accuser wins the Hoard with no other consideration taking precedence. It is the ultimate victory condition. With great accusation comes great reward.
If the Undercover card of the Accused is the same as their Cover card, however, then the Accused is vindicated as an upstanding citizen of the realm and the Accuser forfeits their claim to a share of the Hoard but must continue to make contributions each turn they remain a valid participant and can only choose to pass. They can also still be accused but not questioned.
If the Undercover card of the Accused is not the same as their Cover card, however, then the Accuser retains their right to a claim of a share of the Hoard but must still make a contribution each turn and must pass, thus losing their ability to question or accuse whilst still being a valid target of accusations but not questions.
If the player chooses to Question the other player then the Questioned must make a decision as to whether they maintain or reveal their Undercover card. There are risks and rewards to either choice.
If they choose to maintain their Undercover status then they must make one additional contribution to the Hoard and the turn ends and goes to the next player with no further repercussions to the Questioner or Questioned. They paid their due.
The risk to the Questioner here is that they increase suspicion on themselves and can still be accused and questioned.
If the Questioned chooses to reveal their Undercover card then this can play out in a number of ways depending on the nature of that card. They place their Undercover card atop their Cover card perpendicular to it so as to ensure everyone knows they revealed. If the Questioned has the Cop card then the game ends and the Hoard goes to the State as mentioned above.
If the Undercover card of the Questioned is the same Profession as their Cover card and they choose to reveal that card then they can no longer be questioned or accused and no longer have to contribute to the Hoard on their turn. They must make one further choice to either maintain a claim to a share of the Hoard or renounce that claim. If they renounce then they can no longer accuse or question but may still win a share of the Hoard if the Dobber is revealed when Questioned. In this case, they slide their Undercover card, still perpendicular, to the side of the Cover card to show that they Renounced. Their fate is then left entirely up to conditions which they no longer play a role in determining.
If the Undercover card of the Questioned is the same as their Cover card and they wish to retain a claim to a share of the Hoard then they can continue to accuse or question but due to revealing and not renouncing, they only share rank with those who don't have the same Cover and Undercover cards but *did* reveal. They've proven they're every bit as underhanded as those Undercover scoundrels.
If the Undercover card of the Questioned is the Dobber and the Dobber chooses to reveal, however, then everyone must reveal their Undercover cards to determine what happens. In this case, they place their Undercover cards next to their Cover cards in the same orientation to show that they did not Reveal or Renounce. If there is a Cop amongst the revealed Undercover cards then the Hoard goes to the State. If there isn't a Cop then there's a primacy of share claims which must be considered.
Anyone who maintained their Undercover status until this turn has primacy over any who revealed prior to this turn. Any player who has not revealed and also has the same Cover and Undercover Profession gains primacy over all others who don't share their rank, including the Dobber.
The State rewards honest, honourable, innocent citizens after all.
If, however, everyone has different Cover and Undercover cards or revealed before this turn, then the Dobber gets the entire Hoard to themselves. Snitches get riches.
Any player who cannot contribute on their turn becomes Bankrupt and loses their claim to a share of the Hoard and is no longer a valid participant who can accuse or question or be accused or questioned, irrespective of the rank of their Undercover card. This includes a last turn. For instance, if there are only two valid players left and one goes Bankrupt, then the other player must be able to make a final contribution in order to claim the Hoard or else it goes to the State. Gotta pay those back taxes after all.
Games can also end once all players have revealed their Undercover cards through questioning.
Given there is an advantage to claim a share of the pot through primacy of not revealing, turns can continue until Bankruptcy, or by players who must still contribute each turn choosing to forfeit a claim to a share by not contributing. A player can forfeit on their turn at any point during the game.
In the incredibly rare and very silly circumstance where all players pass until they're Bankrupt then the Hoard goes to the State. I mean... that's great if you're feeling generous but otherwise it pays to actually play the game, not give your money away.
If the game does not end under any other circumstance and there are enough participants with enough wealth to continue beyond good reason, high spirits and the establishment's stores of wine, then the game can end if all valid participants agree to end it.
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
I suggest not trying to have players play out actual games in-character. It pulls focus from the D&D game. In general, if the characters are gambling, or whatever, they're doing it for a reason, and the focus should be on whether they achieve their goal, whether it be making money, getting contacts in the shadier side of town, or whatever. How the game plays out should be covered with a skill roll or two and some descriptive narration. (Among many other reasons not to play it out, your players may well not be as good at said game as their characters.)
Also, if you "have zero interest in card or board games generally", the odds of you coming up with a game that works and is fun on the first try are pretty low. (Even people who are into such things have trouble. Game design is its own skill.) Which isn't to say you shouldn't try, but you should do it separately from your D&D, and be prepared for a lot of iteration on the concept.
This sounds very similar to the existing game called "Coup" I'd highly recommend it as a game, but I don't know why you would want to play it within D&D. If you want to play a card game just play the card game. The only reason to play a game within D&D is if the characters can use their D&D abilities to get some kind of advantage in it - e.g. cheating with Sleight of Hand, manipulating the other players with Deception or Persuasion. etc... in which case the simpler the game the better, because the point is not to play the game-within-the-game but you figure out how to cheat at it using your character's abilities.
Whenever I run any kind of gambling scenario in D&D I always run a version of 21 with players rolling d10's. The rules are simple, most are familiar with the game already, and it's one of the more fair and balanced casino games.
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Bored on a bus trip and thinking about a campaign I'm writing and for some strange reason I invented a card game for the PC's to play in a gambling den, aka Temple to Norebo. I have zero interest in card or board games generally so have absolutely no understanding of what is good, bad, ugly, etc. I'm literally drawing on no experience, no underlying knowledge, nothing, just pure making stuff up.
Hence why I'm asking for feedback. For all I know, this game could be close to or even identical to something that already exists in which case by all means point that out and I'll probably just use that instead. But if it's not then I'd appreciate knowing if it has holes in its logic and could stall or would just be interminably boring or, honestly, whatever problems you can think of. If it's utterly horrendous and a waste of my time, all four hours that I've spent on it, then maybe I should know that too. You know, kindly.
Anyway, here it is in all its potentially ugly glory:
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
I suggest not trying to have players play out actual games in-character. It pulls focus from the D&D game. In general, if the characters are gambling, or whatever, they're doing it for a reason, and the focus should be on whether they achieve their goal, whether it be making money, getting contacts in the shadier side of town, or whatever. How the game plays out should be covered with a skill roll or two and some descriptive narration. (Among many other reasons not to play it out, your players may well not be as good at said game as their characters.)
Also, if you "have zero interest in card or board games generally", the odds of you coming up with a game that works and is fun on the first try are pretty low. (Even people who are into such things have trouble. Game design is its own skill.) Which isn't to say you shouldn't try, but you should do it separately from your D&D, and be prepared for a lot of iteration on the concept.
This sounds very similar to the existing game called "Coup" I'd highly recommend it as a game, but I don't know why you would want to play it within D&D. If you want to play a card game just play the card game. The only reason to play a game within D&D is if the characters can use their D&D abilities to get some kind of advantage in it - e.g. cheating with Sleight of Hand, manipulating the other players with Deception or Persuasion. etc... in which case the simpler the game the better, because the point is not to play the game-within-the-game but you figure out how to cheat at it using your character's abilities.
Whenever I run any kind of gambling scenario in D&D I always run a version of 21 with players rolling d10's. The rules are simple, most are familiar with the game already, and it's one of the more fair and balanced casino games.