Hey everyone, I've been a DM for almost two years now, but one thing that I'm always bad at it the mathematics involved in combat encounters. Here's the scenario.
We're on session two of my new campaign and one character is a level 5 fighter (Rune Knight) who really likes to prove himself with feats of strength. So he found that the city the party is in has a big competitive arena, for glory and blood. So naturally, he wants to fight there. Last session, he entered into a battle to the death with an NPC that he beat rather easily, though it was a fun battle. He now accepted another challenge to the death, and I feel I want to challenge him a bit. After all, a battle to the death should feel like a battle to the death.
I have wipped up an NPC stat block that is essentially a CR6 creature with two attacks of 1d12, about 152 hit points and all the traits a Barbarian player class would have at level 6, including +4 STR and an AC of 17. More info can be supplied if necessary.
Now, my main gripe is that I don't want this player to die. It's only the second session and the player invested a ridiculous amount of work into their backstory, but I feel I should let him taste the sand of the arena a little, if that makes any sense. Do you feel this NPC character would pose a fair challenge to a level 5 fighter in one-on-one combat? Should I nerf the NPC? Buff it, even?
This really is my weakest point as a DM, so I would appreciate any advice. :)
With a decent ac (17) and high health, plus resistance (as a barbarian) that seems incredibly tough for a 1:1 fight at level 5.
You don't have to be afraid of character death in this though, perhaps if the character puts on a good show a cleric from the arena will raise them from the dead. This then sets up other possibilities (depending on how big the city is, how popular the arena is, and how much magic you have in your game).
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"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
Assuming CR is a reasonable gauge of difficulty (it's not, but assuming...) CR6 is wildly overpowered for a single 5th-level character. For multi-PC, multi-monster fights, Xanathar's Guide suggests that one 5th-level character matches up against a CR2 monster. Those match-ups are meant to be challenging but winnable.
What I would probably do is just... build a sixth-level barbarian and pay attention during the actual fight, tweaking things up or down as needed.
With a decent ac (17) and high health, plus resistance (as a barbarian) that seems incredibly tough for a 1:1 fight at level 5.
You don't have to be afraid of character death in this though, perhaps if the character puts on a good show a cleric from the arena will raise them from the dead. This then sets up other possibilities (depending on how big the city is, how popular the arena is, and how much magic you have in your game).
Thanks for your feedback! I really like that way of thinking. It opens up roleplaying options, which I know that player will appreciate, and it unburdens me a little of too much mathematical tinkering. I didn't think of that yet, so thanks!
Assuming CR is a reasonable gauge of difficulty (it's not, but assuming...) CR6 is wildly overpowered for a single 5th-level character. For multi-PC, multi-monster fights, Xanathar's Guide suggests that one 5th-level character matches up against a CR2 monster. Those match-ups are meant to be challenging but winnable.
What I would probably do is just... build a sixth-level barbarian and pay attention during the actual fight, tweaking things up or down as needed.
Thanks for the tip! That seems like a good way to go. It's hard to figure out how to properly balance encounters, I guess. Last time, this player went up against the Gladiator NPC (CR5) and had no trouble whatsoever defeating him. Of course, it did help that he had his dice luck on his side with two nat 20s, but still. Anyway, it's probably best, as you say, to tweak things mid-fight, if necesary. Thanks!
Two crits will absolutely swing a fight pretty immediately, especially at low levels. If you want a somewhat even match, it’s obviously going to be heavily influenced by RNG, and the dice will mean the difference between a very easy victory and death.
This might be a little lame but maybe as long as the player doesn’t know it could be ok, I’ve done this in the past when I am uncertain of an encounter: I give the creature multiple HP stats. So if you wanted to give it a range, it could be like 75, 100, 125, 150.
but I will say, 152 hp seems like a ton for a single lvl 5 fighter to handle. I’d go with like 55, 75, 90
but maybe if it’s a really good fight and he’s about to die, the crowd is chanting “Kill him! Kill him!” the npc has a change of heart, holding him up by his throat he sets him back down on his feet and says something like “we will fight again someday” then head butts him and walks out of the arena like a boss.
Okay, here's how to crunch numbers, though it's going to depend on build.
Determine PC DPR vs target AC. This is (average damage per hit) * (number of attacks) * (attack bonus+21-AC)/20.
Determine target DPR vs PC AC, in the same way
Add special actions. These can usually be computed in the same way.
Work out who runs out of hp first.
Now, I don't know the stats of this PC, but I'll make the assumption of:
Str 18 (base), Con 14, HP 44, dueling fighting style, +1 longsword, shield, plate; attack +8/1d8+7 twice, AC 20. Has an extra 9.5 effective hp because of second wind.
Runes Haug (resistant to weapons), Ise (gives attack +9/1d8+8). We assume both are active
Opponent is a Gladiator. Note that the mechanics of parry generally mean you can treat AC as 19, because you decide after resolving whether the attack would hit, and you probably aren't going to have more than one attack per round that is between 16 and 18.
Okay, PC DPR is 12.5*2*(9+21-19)/20 = 13.75. Monster DPR is 11*3*(7+21-20)/20/2(resistance)=6.6.
It will take the PC 8.1 rounds to burn through 112 hp; we reduce that to 7.1 rounds because of action surge.
It will take the gladiator 8.1 rounds to burn through 53.5 hp.
Randomness being what it is, this is pretty close to a coin flip with a slight edge to the PC. Better stats or gear for the PC will swing it the other way.
I'd let the gladiator trash the PC, teach him he's not invincible, but maybe stop short of killing him (normally I'd just let him die, but it's a pretty epic duel and I wouldn't want to punish a player for heroics, no matter how foolish). Instead, he knocks him out, taunts him, and leaves him, like Count Rugen and Inigo in The Princess Bride. Or maybe he spares him more honorably, leaving the PC to feel like an idiot...and owe the gladiator a favor.
You need to do something to put him off declaring fights to the death - otherwise there is going to be a point where he'll be out of his depth!
Perhaps set him up with a fair challenge, if the NPC wins get someone to step in. If the player wins, have him ambushed whilst still weakened and threatened by a local thug/mafia house or something.
Okay, here's how to crunch numbers, though it's going to depend on build.
Determine PC DPR vs target AC. This is (average damage per hit) * (number of attacks) * (attack bonus+21-AC)/20.
Determine target DPR vs PC AC, in the same way
Add special actions. These can usually be computed in the same way.
Work out who runs out of hp first.
Now, I don't know the stats of this PC, but I'll make the assumption of:
Str 18 (base), Con 14, HP 44, dueling fighting style, +1 longsword, shield, plate; attack +8/1d8+7 twice, AC 20. Has an extra 9.5 effective hp because of second wind.
Runes Haug (resistant to weapons), Ise (gives attack +9/1d8+8). We assume both are active
Opponent is a Gladiator. Note that the mechanics of parry generally mean you can treat AC as 19, because you decide after resolving whether the attack would hit, and you probably aren't going to have more than one attack per round that is between 16 and 18.
Okay, PC DPR is 12.5*2*(9+21-19)/20 = 13.75. Monster DPR is 11*3*(7+21-20)/20/2(resistance)=6.6.
It will take the PC 8.1 rounds to burn through 112 hp; we reduce that to 7.1 rounds because of action surge.
It will take the gladiator 8.1 rounds to burn through 53.5 hp.
Randomness being what it is, this is pretty close to a coin flip with a slight edge to the PC. Better stats or gear for the PC will swing it the other way.
Thanks! This in particular offers a useful insight. I will use this more to check out encounter balances, I think.
He knows the risk, so let him play. If he dies, so be it. Remember: you should not play his character!
Very true, and it's a good reminder for me. I tend to be the type of DM players could potentially walk all over and this player in particular sometimes does. I should at least remind him that choices have consequences; something I know this player likes experiencing in DnD.
Thanks to everyone for their input! It is much appreciated. Sometimes when I'm stuck on a problem like this, I forget that this is DnD and that every in-game/mechanics problem is actually an opportunity in disguise. Thanks for reminding me. :)
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Hey everyone, I've been a DM for almost two years now, but one thing that I'm always bad at it the mathematics involved in combat encounters. Here's the scenario.
We're on session two of my new campaign and one character is a level 5 fighter (Rune Knight) who really likes to prove himself with feats of strength. So he found that the city the party is in has a big competitive arena, for glory and blood. So naturally, he wants to fight there. Last session, he entered into a battle to the death with an NPC that he beat rather easily, though it was a fun battle. He now accepted another challenge to the death, and I feel I want to challenge him a bit. After all, a battle to the death should feel like a battle to the death.
I have wipped up an NPC stat block that is essentially a CR6 creature with two attacks of 1d12, about 152 hit points and all the traits a Barbarian player class would have at level 6, including +4 STR and an AC of 17. More info can be supplied if necessary.
Now, my main gripe is that I don't want this player to die. It's only the second session and the player invested a ridiculous amount of work into their backstory, but I feel I should let him taste the sand of the arena a little, if that makes any sense. Do you feel this NPC character would pose a fair challenge to a level 5 fighter in one-on-one combat? Should I nerf the NPC? Buff it, even?
This really is my weakest point as a DM, so I would appreciate any advice. :)
With a decent ac (17) and high health, plus resistance (as a barbarian) that seems incredibly tough for a 1:1 fight at level 5.
You don't have to be afraid of character death in this though, perhaps if the character puts on a good show a cleric from the arena will raise them from the dead. This then sets up other possibilities (depending on how big the city is, how popular the arena is, and how much magic you have in your game).
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
Assuming CR is a reasonable gauge of difficulty (it's not, but assuming...) CR6 is wildly overpowered for a single 5th-level character. For multi-PC, multi-monster fights, Xanathar's Guide suggests that one 5th-level character matches up against a CR2 monster. Those match-ups are meant to be challenging but winnable.
What I would probably do is just... build a sixth-level barbarian and pay attention during the actual fight, tweaking things up or down as needed.
Thanks for your feedback! I really like that way of thinking. It opens up roleplaying options, which I know that player will appreciate, and it unburdens me a little of too much mathematical tinkering. I didn't think of that yet, so thanks!
Thanks for the tip! That seems like a good way to go. It's hard to figure out how to properly balance encounters, I guess. Last time, this player went up against the Gladiator NPC (CR5) and had no trouble whatsoever defeating him. Of course, it did help that he had his dice luck on his side with two nat 20s, but still. Anyway, it's probably best, as you say, to tweak things mid-fight, if necesary. Thanks!
Two crits will absolutely swing a fight pretty immediately, especially at low levels. If you want a somewhat even match, it’s obviously going to be heavily influenced by RNG, and the dice will mean the difference between a very easy victory and death.
This might be a little lame but maybe as long as the player doesn’t know it could be ok, I’ve done this in the past when I am uncertain of an encounter: I give the creature multiple HP stats. So if you wanted to give it a range, it could be like 75, 100, 125, 150.
but I will say, 152 hp seems like a ton for a single lvl 5 fighter to handle. I’d go with like 55, 75, 90
but maybe if it’s a really good fight and he’s about to die, the crowd is chanting “Kill him! Kill him!” the npc has a change of heart, holding him up by his throat he sets him back down on his feet and says something like “we will fight again someday” then head butts him and walks out of the arena like a boss.
Okay, here's how to crunch numbers, though it's going to depend on build.
Now, I don't know the stats of this PC, but I'll make the assumption of:
Okay, PC DPR is 12.5*2*(9+21-19)/20 = 13.75. Monster DPR is 11*3*(7+21-20)/20/2(resistance)=6.6.
It will take the PC 8.1 rounds to burn through 112 hp; we reduce that to 7.1 rounds because of action surge.
It will take the gladiator 8.1 rounds to burn through 53.5 hp.
Randomness being what it is, this is pretty close to a coin flip with a slight edge to the PC. Better stats or gear for the PC will swing it the other way.
I'd let the gladiator trash the PC, teach him he's not invincible, but maybe stop short of killing him (normally I'd just let him die, but it's a pretty epic duel and I wouldn't want to punish a player for heroics, no matter how foolish). Instead, he knocks him out, taunts him, and leaves him, like Count Rugen and Inigo in The Princess Bride. Or maybe he spares him more honorably, leaving the PC to feel like an idiot...and owe the gladiator a favor.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
As a side note, a physical melee attacker is totally playing to the character's strengths and fighters are generally single target attackers.
You need to do something to put him off declaring fights to the death - otherwise there is going to be a point where he'll be out of his depth!
Perhaps set him up with a fair challenge, if the NPC wins get someone to step in. If the player wins, have him ambushed whilst still weakened and threatened by a local thug/mafia house or something.
"He now accepted another challenge to the death"
He knows the risk, so let him play. If he dies, so be it. Remember: you should not play his character!
Cedo nulli, Calcanda semel via leti.
Parvi sed magni.
Thanks! This in particular offers a useful insight. I will use this more to check out encounter balances, I think.
Very true, and it's a good reminder for me. I tend to be the type of DM players could potentially walk all over and this player in particular sometimes does. I should at least remind him that choices have consequences; something I know this player likes experiencing in DnD.
Thanks to everyone for their input! It is much appreciated. Sometimes when I'm stuck on a problem like this, I forget that this is DnD and that every in-game/mechanics problem is actually an opportunity in disguise. Thanks for reminding me. :)