My last session with my players turned out to be one of the better ones we've had. The thing is I am wondering if I could have handled the situation any differently than what I did and I'd like your input/ideas. I'll start with some information then on to the session:
Vistra: Bard, has an ocarina which is an ancient artifact, one of two items used to seal tears between the realms. Dwalin: NPC has a dulcimer which is the other artifact used to seal the tears. Is currently in a different plane of existence, but can be felt by Vistra. Mhurren: Barbarian, this session was dealing with the emotions of being the cause of the almost death of another party member while under mind-altering magics. Aloxyis: Monk/Warlock, the one who was almost killed by Mhurren, was being very belligerent toward Mhurren and his melancholy attitude that day. Nivarrah: Rogue, played it safe that night, didn't do much as she felt ineffective against the creature and had no idea what to do when things went south. Karrana: Druid, instrumental in the defeat of the elemental, but didn't do much when things got all weird after the fight.
The group found themselves in front of a large tear while in the mining tunnels of the Dwarven kingdom they were helping. This was the first time they'd visibly seen one since Vistra could only "feel" them and when she played the ocarina they'd just pop out of existence. There was a large elemental standing in front of the rift, motionless, Mhurren decided to attack it since the group reasoned the other rifts closed after all threats had been dealt with in previous instances. Just after the opening volley the group watched a strange gnome like creature run through the rift, they don't know it is a Korred, but they heard it say something about "Not pass rift". The elemental fight went well, it took a while to down, and it caused havoc with some of the NPCs around the area. The strikers felt worthless due to being unable to do anything significant in the fight other than try to get it's attention. It wasn't my intent to exclude them from the fight, but it was refreshing seeing them have to change their tactics significantly to address this threat.
Vistra tried to play her instrument to close the rift and there seemed to be no effect. She tried a couple times and seemed to find that there was something missing when she played her song. Mhurren happened to notice that her instrument was changing colors, and Vistra took a moment to look. The group was able to look at the ocarina and there was a moving image, similar to scrying, that showed Dwalin was in the middle of a fight with a strange creature, a Xorn. Aloxyis, without any warning, took off toward the rift in an attempt to cross over, her thinking was to help Dwalin. Mhurren reached out and grabbed her, pulling her back just as Aloxyis's arm crossed through the rift. When she fell back on to the ground her arm was severed just below the shoulder, and a strange crystalline film was covering the wound.
Aloxyis and Mhurren began to argue, Karrana was scolding Aloxyis and it was getting heated. This was all in character. Vistra, without saying anything, strode through the rift, at the same time Mhurren got upset with Aloxyis and pushed her through the rift. Karrana started yelling at Mhurren and he just walked through the rift, tired of listening to Karrana and still feeling guilty about Aloxyis.
Here's where I'd have your input: This rift led to the Elemental Plane of Earth, which has the chance to instantly kill a normal human when they cross through. I had each of them roll a percentile to see if they crossed over safely, I figured a 20% chance to succeed was fair. Vistra rolled high enough to make it through safely 89%, Aloxyis rolled lower but not low enough for me to feel it was deadly 64%, and Mhurren failed 10%. I had Vistra appear in a room with nothing but rock surrounding her, and the portal, a moment later Aloxyis appeared with an arm and leg fused into the stone of the room, and shortly after her I had Mhurren appear buried up to his shoulder in the stone, dead.
How would you have handled the situation?
In the interest of disclosure I did have everyone come out of it alive, but there was some very serious RP that had to happen for it to work out that way...at least one of them is in a very sticky situation at the hands of a Dietie's avatar.
I think the way you handled it was pretty reasonable, if not a little bit much. I assume that given the prevalence of these rifts in your campaign it is extremely likely, nay, inevitable that the group will be passing through these rifts at least one more time. The risk here is that the next time they do this, if most or all of them roll badly you're looking at visibly pulling a punch on the players and they will know it. I am a relatively new DM but one thing I've learned is that the constant fear of death or someone else's death is important for fun to be had. I've pulled a few punches when things have gone horribly wrong (Debuffed HP/Buffed HP of monsters/stretched the rules) and certainly will again, but I try to never let the players know that I did it. As I get deeper into this campaign with my relatively newer group and they have become more attached to the story and their characters webs within the story. I have warned them that reckless actions will almost certainly result in their death. Given the difficulty of handling an insanely stupid decision to randomly jump into a wall of energy that just maimed someone. I think you handled it really well!
Is the idea that crossing through a rift could instantly kill a normal human something that's well-known in your world? If not, did you give the players (and the PCs) any chance to discover this information? The way this is presented, especially with the Korred passing through the rift during the fight with no apparent consequences (it's a fey, of course, but the PCs don't seem to have known that), it doesn't seem like the danger was entirely clear in this situation.
I guess one might argue that a character losing an arm should have been an obvious warning, but it would be easy to conclude this was because they only partially entered the portal- something to me that seems instinctively more risky than just going full speed ahead.
I probably would have given the players a very dire warning about passing through the rift. But if they'd persisted, I don't think I would have handled things any differently than you did.
Out of curiosity, how did you expect the PCs would approach this situation? If anything, it seems like the vision of the NPC in danger was a clear signal to the PCs (and players) that they should enter the rift and mount a rescue.
Also, how was Mhurren grabbing Aloxyis handled? Having a character lose an arm as a result of another PC's actions would have been very frustrating to me as a player.
There was a rift earlier, probably 6 or so sessions previous where they saw that a rift had cleanly cut an entire Elven wagon, and some of the passengers, when it appeared. The group helped tend to the wounded. There was a Korred present there, which also left through the portal, though this one left some basilisks for the group to deal with, as well as another Earth elemental. I also believed that Aloxyis losing an arm would have been enough to give them pause when considering the idea of entering the rift. I feel that this set a precedence, though I am aware that what a DM sees as obvious is not always translated well by the players.
As to the vision, I do understand the vague nature of what was presented. The ocarina and dulcimer are very new items for the party to deal with, this whole situation started in the last 6 or so sessions. The Elven caravan being the precursor to this entire story arc, the group has no idea what they're dealing with and are learning as they go. I have been giving hints and clues about the nature of the instruments, this scrying like vision is just one more "trick" that the instrument has granted Vistra. I know it's not the most "fair" approach, but the group has shown a propensity to research and delve into ancient tomes and libraries quite a bit. So, I'm just playing along with that habit by giving them reasons to dig deeper into the history of the instruments. It backfired a bit with this situation, part of the reason I handled it with the approach I did, trying to make it serious without being deadly.
Mhurren simply stated that he wanted to grab her and toss her back, away from the rift. I had them roll opposed grapples, knowing that Mhurren had a significantly higher chance of succeeding. As Aloxyis approached the rift, I explained that Mhurren grabbed the back of her shirt and heaved, tossing her back 5ft, but not before Aloxyis reached out to the rift. It was Aloxyis's choice to enter the rift, so I wanted to give her a little information about her decision, and the dangers associated with it. It was that interaction that lead to Aloxyis losing her arm and it was after that interaction the rest of the people decided to cross over.
All of my players said they had fun with the night, no one was upset, I got a lot of feed back on why they acted the way they did, and even my wife (Aloxyis) said that they all felt what happened was understandable. I really am just looking to see if and how anyone would have handled it differently. Especially since, as has been noticed, the rifts are going to be a prominent theme for a bit.
I guess you could have given the players a very obvious warning by directly stating "this thing might kill or maim you," but it seems to me that you had already provided them with plenty of clues. The only sticking point for me is the vision, as it really seems like it was pushing the PCs to enter the rift to save the NPC.
I'm also still curious: what would have been the ideal approach for the PCs in this situation? What were you hoping they would accomplish?
A minor point: I also would have had Aloxyis and Mhurren roll initiative before the grapple check, as it seems possible Mhurren might not have acted fast enough to do anything at all. But that's just my personal approach to handling these kind of split-second decisions.
At least from now on, it should be clear how dangerous the rifts are. Though I would probably provide the PCs with some means to circumvent this danger in the future. It's going to be problematic if they risk death every time they enter one, especially if doing so is necessary to succeed in any given adventure.
The whole of it was in Vistra's hands at that point. She has the only tool which can close the rifts and she hasn't caught on to the verbal cues that I have been giving her. I was hoping to give her the information necessary in this situation.
1: She has to play the ocarina and roll a performance high enough to achieve the goal of closing the rift (it's not very high due to the bonus inherent to the ocarina itself). 2: She has to play with Dwalin, both of their instruments need to play simultaneously to close the rift from both sides. 3: I have tried to show that when Dwalin is playing there is a vibration that she can feel from the rift. This is the part that she seems to be missing and I've tried a few different approaches from Int/Wis checks to saying, every single time, that there is a vibration that she feels just before she can close the rift.
She has closed 4 rifts at this point, 2 with no issue, she could feel the vibrations before she started to play. Two of the rifts wouldn't close right away and then the vibrations would start, she was then successful in closing the rifts. With the vision, had she time to watch it play out in its entirety, rather than being interrupted, I would have shown Dwalin finish his fight and start to play his instrument. The vibrations would have been felt and Vistra could then close the rift from her side. It is hard to make that scene play out when you're juggling the actions of 5 players and one NPC. I even chose not to make the scene sound like it was Dwalin losing the fight, I simply described the scene as Dwalin fighting a strange creature, and described the Xorn. I had barely time enough to finish describing the initial scene of the vision before Aloxyis rushed in toward the rift.
--
As to initiative, I generally wing it in those situations. If it was more than just the two of them attempting actions I would have done initiative, since there's more cogs spinning at the same time. With just two people, and something that can be resolved with a simple skill check, I saw no reason to slow it down with an initiative roll.
My last session with my players turned out to be one of the better ones we've had. The thing is I am wondering if I could have handled the situation any differently than what I did and I'd like your input/ideas. I'll start with some information then on to the session:
Vistra: Bard, has an ocarina which is an ancient artifact, one of two items used to seal tears between the realms.
Dwalin: NPC has a dulcimer which is the other artifact used to seal the tears. Is currently in a different plane of existence, but can be felt by Vistra.
Mhurren: Barbarian, this session was dealing with the emotions of being the cause of the almost death of another party member while under mind-altering magics.
Aloxyis: Monk/Warlock, the one who was almost killed by Mhurren, was being very belligerent toward Mhurren and his melancholy attitude that day.
Nivarrah: Rogue, played it safe that night, didn't do much as she felt ineffective against the creature and had no idea what to do when things went south.
Karrana: Druid, instrumental in the defeat of the elemental, but didn't do much when things got all weird after the fight.
The group found themselves in front of a large tear while in the mining tunnels of the Dwarven kingdom they were helping. This was the first time they'd visibly seen one since Vistra could only "feel" them and when she played the ocarina they'd just pop out of existence. There was a large elemental standing in front of the rift, motionless, Mhurren decided to attack it since the group reasoned the other rifts closed after all threats had been dealt with in previous instances. Just after the opening volley the group watched a strange gnome like creature run through the rift, they don't know it is a Korred, but they heard it say something about "Not pass rift". The elemental fight went well, it took a while to down, and it caused havoc with some of the NPCs around the area. The strikers felt worthless due to being unable to do anything significant in the fight other than try to get it's attention. It wasn't my intent to exclude them from the fight, but it was refreshing seeing them have to change their tactics significantly to address this threat.
Vistra tried to play her instrument to close the rift and there seemed to be no effect. She tried a couple times and seemed to find that there was something missing when she played her song. Mhurren happened to notice that her instrument was changing colors, and Vistra took a moment to look. The group was able to look at the ocarina and there was a moving image, similar to scrying, that showed Dwalin was in the middle of a fight with a strange creature, a Xorn. Aloxyis, without any warning, took off toward the rift in an attempt to cross over, her thinking was to help Dwalin. Mhurren reached out and grabbed her, pulling her back just as Aloxyis's arm crossed through the rift. When she fell back on to the ground her arm was severed just below the shoulder, and a strange crystalline film was covering the wound.
Aloxyis and Mhurren began to argue, Karrana was scolding Aloxyis and it was getting heated. This was all in character. Vistra, without saying anything, strode through the rift, at the same time Mhurren got upset with Aloxyis and pushed her through the rift. Karrana started yelling at Mhurren and he just walked through the rift, tired of listening to Karrana and still feeling guilty about Aloxyis.
Here's where I'd have your input:
This rift led to the Elemental Plane of Earth, which has the chance to instantly kill a normal human when they cross through. I had each of them roll a percentile to see if they crossed over safely, I figured a 20% chance to succeed was fair. Vistra rolled high enough to make it through safely 89%, Aloxyis rolled lower but not low enough for me to feel it was deadly 64%, and Mhurren failed 10%. I had Vistra appear in a room with nothing but rock surrounding her, and the portal, a moment later Aloxyis appeared with an arm and leg fused into the stone of the room, and shortly after her I had Mhurren appear buried up to his shoulder in the stone, dead.
How would you have handled the situation?
In the interest of disclosure I did have everyone come out of it alive, but there was some very serious RP that had to happen for it to work out that way...at least one of them is in a very sticky situation at the hands of a Dietie's avatar.
I think the way you handled it was pretty reasonable, if not a little bit much. I assume that given the prevalence of these rifts in your campaign it is extremely likely, nay, inevitable that the group will be passing through these rifts at least one more time. The risk here is that the next time they do this, if most or all of them roll badly you're looking at visibly pulling a punch on the players and they will know it. I am a relatively new DM but one thing I've learned is that the constant fear of death or someone else's death is important for fun to be had. I've pulled a few punches when things have gone horribly wrong (Debuffed HP/Buffed HP of monsters/stretched the rules) and certainly will again, but I try to never let the players know that I did it. As I get deeper into this campaign with my relatively newer group and they have become more attached to the story and their characters webs within the story. I have warned them that reckless actions will almost certainly result in their death. Given the difficulty of handling an insanely stupid decision to randomly jump into a wall of energy that just maimed someone. I think you handled it really well!
<3
Mitch
Is the idea that crossing through a rift could instantly kill a normal human something that's well-known in your world? If not, did you give the players (and the PCs) any chance to discover this information? The way this is presented, especially with the Korred passing through the rift during the fight with no apparent consequences (it's a fey, of course, but the PCs don't seem to have known that), it doesn't seem like the danger was entirely clear in this situation.
I guess one might argue that a character losing an arm should have been an obvious warning, but it would be easy to conclude this was because they only partially entered the portal- something to me that seems instinctively more risky than just going full speed ahead.
I probably would have given the players a very dire warning about passing through the rift. But if they'd persisted, I don't think I would have handled things any differently than you did.
Out of curiosity, how did you expect the PCs would approach this situation? If anything, it seems like the vision of the NPC in danger was a clear signal to the PCs (and players) that they should enter the rift and mount a rescue.
Also, how was Mhurren grabbing Aloxyis handled? Having a character lose an arm as a result of another PC's actions would have been very frustrating to me as a player.
There was a rift earlier, probably 6 or so sessions previous where they saw that a rift had cleanly cut an entire Elven wagon, and some of the passengers, when it appeared. The group helped tend to the wounded. There was a Korred present there, which also left through the portal, though this one left some basilisks for the group to deal with, as well as another Earth elemental. I also believed that Aloxyis losing an arm would have been enough to give them pause when considering the idea of entering the rift. I feel that this set a precedence, though I am aware that what a DM sees as obvious is not always translated well by the players.
As to the vision, I do understand the vague nature of what was presented. The ocarina and dulcimer are very new items for the party to deal with, this whole situation started in the last 6 or so sessions. The Elven caravan being the precursor to this entire story arc, the group has no idea what they're dealing with and are learning as they go. I have been giving hints and clues about the nature of the instruments, this scrying like vision is just one more "trick" that the instrument has granted Vistra. I know it's not the most "fair" approach, but the group has shown a propensity to research and delve into ancient tomes and libraries quite a bit. So, I'm just playing along with that habit by giving them reasons to dig deeper into the history of the instruments. It backfired a bit with this situation, part of the reason I handled it with the approach I did, trying to make it serious without being deadly.
Mhurren simply stated that he wanted to grab her and toss her back, away from the rift. I had them roll opposed grapples, knowing that Mhurren had a significantly higher chance of succeeding. As Aloxyis approached the rift, I explained that Mhurren grabbed the back of her shirt and heaved, tossing her back 5ft, but not before Aloxyis reached out to the rift. It was Aloxyis's choice to enter the rift, so I wanted to give her a little information about her decision, and the dangers associated with it. It was that interaction that lead to Aloxyis losing her arm and it was after that interaction the rest of the people decided to cross over.
All of my players said they had fun with the night, no one was upset, I got a lot of feed back on why they acted the way they did, and even my wife (Aloxyis) said that they all felt what happened was understandable. I really am just looking to see if and how anyone would have handled it differently. Especially since, as has been noticed, the rifts are going to be a prominent theme for a bit.
I guess you could have given the players a very obvious warning by directly stating "this thing might kill or maim you," but it seems to me that you had already provided them with plenty of clues. The only sticking point for me is the vision, as it really seems like it was pushing the PCs to enter the rift to save the NPC.
I'm also still curious: what would have been the ideal approach for the PCs in this situation? What were you hoping they would accomplish?
A minor point: I also would have had Aloxyis and Mhurren roll initiative before the grapple check, as it seems possible Mhurren might not have acted fast enough to do anything at all. But that's just my personal approach to handling these kind of split-second decisions.
At least from now on, it should be clear how dangerous the rifts are. Though I would probably provide the PCs with some means to circumvent this danger in the future. It's going to be problematic if they risk death every time they enter one, especially if doing so is necessary to succeed in any given adventure.
The whole of it was in Vistra's hands at that point. She has the only tool which can close the rifts and she hasn't caught on to the verbal cues that I have been giving her. I was hoping to give her the information necessary in this situation.
1: She has to play the ocarina and roll a performance high enough to achieve the goal of closing the rift (it's not very high due to the bonus inherent to the ocarina itself).
2: She has to play with Dwalin, both of their instruments need to play simultaneously to close the rift from both sides.
3: I have tried to show that when Dwalin is playing there is a vibration that she can feel from the rift. This is the part that she seems to be missing and I've tried a few different approaches from Int/Wis checks to saying, every single time, that there is a vibration that she feels just before she can close the rift.
She has closed 4 rifts at this point, 2 with no issue, she could feel the vibrations before she started to play. Two of the rifts wouldn't close right away and then the vibrations would start, she was then successful in closing the rifts. With the vision, had she time to watch it play out in its entirety, rather than being interrupted, I would have shown Dwalin finish his fight and start to play his instrument. The vibrations would have been felt and Vistra could then close the rift from her side. It is hard to make that scene play out when you're juggling the actions of 5 players and one NPC. I even chose not to make the scene sound like it was Dwalin losing the fight, I simply described the scene as Dwalin fighting a strange creature, and described the Xorn. I had barely time enough to finish describing the initial scene of the vision before Aloxyis rushed in toward the rift.
--
As to initiative, I generally wing it in those situations. If it was more than just the two of them attempting actions I would have done initiative, since there's more cogs spinning at the same time. With just two people, and something that can be resolved with a simple skill check, I saw no reason to slow it down with an initiative roll.