Last weekend we had the first player character death in my campaign. (Characters range from 4th to 5th level.) Right now, they're about two hours away from civilization, they have more delving to do before they can head back, and they'd have to carry the body without benefit of mounts. (They do have a Circle of the Moon druid, though, who can shape change into a bear.)
I'm trying to figure out 1) could they carry the body that far without pack animals? and 2) do I allow them to convince an NPC to raise the character?
Some context: the party is on a very tough, very critical mission on which hinges basically the fate of an entire city; assuming they succeed, many lives will be saved.
How do y'all handle this? I don't wanna be a dick about it - the ultimate goal is to have fun, after all - but I'm also still trying to adapt my hardass 1E ways to the more player-centric/friendly tone of 5E.
This is more of a dilemma for the players than it is for you. Do the players want to continue to scour the location for what it is they are looking for or do they want to revive their fallen friend? Let them choose, you simply have to adapt to their choices and let the story progress.
Do they stay and keep digging? Well now they have literal dead weight to carry around with them. There is a risk of losing the body, there is a risk of being down one member if a nasty fight breaks out, they have to balance that over the result of their mission.
Do they head back to revive the party member: As long as the city they head to has a church or some sort of cleric available, it's possible. Do they want to risk the mission for it? Do they return to find that the location is now on high alert? Do they fail the mission because of their absence?
You are there to facilitate their story, they are the ones writing it, let them make the hard decisions.
Assuming they complete the mission and successfully bring the body back, do I have the city leaders amenable? Assuming they have the strength to carry the body back, are there any mechanics or consequences I should impose for hauling the body around? How do I weigh giving in-game deaths weight and meaning against players loving a character and wanting to have fun?
I understand that their choices are going to shape the story. I'm trying to get a hold of my own viewpoint and approach to it.
I don't see a reason the church/city leaders wouldn't be amenable. There's a defined cost for resurrection and/or a new plot hook you can tie in to it. The only way it may not work in favor of the players is if their mission is in opposition to the stance of the city/church.
The only mechanics I can think of off hand is encumbrance. Not in the sense that the body is too difficult to carry, but in the sense of extended exertion. Something like this could be easily addressed using the idea that they move slower.
I believe death should usually serve a purpose, if you can tie it into the story somehow then you have a way to make it feel like it has more impact. If the character dies due to the fickle nature of the dice, then I would let that be handled by the players after giving them a dramatic description of their friend being slain. I have found that if you focus on the death of a character it creates its own impact, whereas, if you gloss over it, then the death has less impact (excluding the player who lost their character). If the player wants to save their character, give them a way, if they're already rolling up a new character sheet before the dice stop moving...then I'd ask what they want.
I hope that is more along the lines of what you're asking.
The player has definitely said they would like to have the character come back.
I think I'm wrestling with my own approach to the game. As stated, my background is 1E (never played any edition between that and 5E). Obviously, bringing a character back in 1E was also a possibility but in that version, character death was both more frequent and more frequently permanent. I would like for my campaign world to have real stakes for the characters; I would like the danger to be real, and for them to approach combat with the understanding that the gloves are off and character death is a realistic possibility. Both as a player and a DM, I've found that when combat has stakes, the intensity is increased, as is the subsequent sense of victory (assuming they win) or desire for revenge or a rematch (if they flee and/or suffer losses).
I'm wanting to avoid a video game feel, in which character death is a mere inconvenience rather than an event with impact.
You can use the same approach as with 1e. Back then we had adventuring groups 15-20 characters. Simply because the group would hire houndmasters to protect the camp from nightly ambushes, group of torchbearers to light your path, a group of NPC's to carry all your loot due to encumbrance etc. If one died you hired another one, or carried them back to a town to resurrect them. However back then things were more costly compared to now. Now you're quickly swimming in money without anything to really spend it on.
Also back in the earlier editions the higher lvl NPC's were capable and not just quest hooks waiting to be activated. Those high lvl NPC's were out adventuring and taking care of their own business. They weren't always around to accommodate the players. Same can be applied in 5e. Not every city has people of sufficient level to perform a Resurrection. And that NPC's might be out of town for a while as well. I just simply roll a D20 and if its a 11-20 then the NPC is in town to aid the group. Depending if other variables are met. Such as some Thac0 has mentioned.
When transporting. Is the party performing occasional "Gentle Repose"?. If not the body is decaying and that will have impact on the resurrection for example. Does the group also have the required ingredients in their possession? Or do they expect the church that performs the ritual to have it all at hand? How common are such acts in your setting?
For narrative reasons I also like Matt Mercer's approach to performing such a ritual. Turn it into a 4e skill challenge. And every time the ritual has to be performed on the same character the DC rises. So eventually it might be high enough to make sure the character stays dead. Also throw in some harrowing mental/soul aspect if the same character keeps dying regularly.
When coming from older editions it can be difficult to deal with how forgiving 5e is. At its core it offers so many safety nets that the threat of danger is very low. It quickly becomes none existing either. To have some sense of dread and lasting consequences it takes a lot of homebrew ruling. Otherwise your player characters will be super heroes in no time to which death is just a pointless obstacle.
I have played since 1980 rules 2-5e, both as player and dm. Resurre tion or raise dead are always possible, but it comes at a cost, usually around 1000 gps. now the question is how are they going to get their friend back to the city or church without a beast of burden. carrying them theirselves is possible, but would take a day or two. they could always make a stretcher out of wood, branches and some kind of large clothe and drag them that way, which would take about a day. and as a dm, you could throw in an encounter or two on the way back, cause it would be noisy dragging them, and the dead stink, attracting monsters.
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I have been playing AD&D since 1980, both as a player and DM, using rules 2.0-5e
For those who read and contributed: I decided to use existing campaign events and details to handle this. The location to which the party returned (with the body) had no diamonds of the needed value....but there was a city within a couple days' travel that does, and NPCs from the current location have a relationship with the dwarven community in the other city.
So the party will be traveling to the other city to obtain a diamond...and maybe, just maybe, complications will ensue. They've cast gentle repose on the dead character, so they've bought themselves some time, but there's still a time limit on them if they want to get the character back.
I'm happy with this. It allows for more worldbuilding, more role-playing for everyone, and assuming they're successful, there will be a real sense of accomplishment and meaning to the dead character's return.
A PC died; we rolled that player another character up and worked that character into the adventure. However, the player expressed a strong preference for the character that had died.
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Last weekend we had the first player character death in my campaign. (Characters range from 4th to 5th level.) Right now, they're about two hours away from civilization, they have more delving to do before they can head back, and they'd have to carry the body without benefit of mounts. (They do have a Circle of the Moon druid, though, who can shape change into a bear.)
I'm trying to figure out 1) could they carry the body that far without pack animals? and 2) do I allow them to convince an NPC to raise the character?
Some context: the party is on a very tough, very critical mission on which hinges basically the fate of an entire city; assuming they succeed, many lives will be saved.
How do y'all handle this? I don't wanna be a dick about it - the ultimate goal is to have fun, after all - but I'm also still trying to adapt my hardass 1E ways to the more player-centric/friendly tone of 5E.
This is more of a dilemma for the players than it is for you. Do the players want to continue to scour the location for what it is they are looking for or do they want to revive their fallen friend? Let them choose, you simply have to adapt to their choices and let the story progress.
Do they stay and keep digging? Well now they have literal dead weight to carry around with them. There is a risk of losing the body, there is a risk of being down one member if a nasty fight breaks out, they have to balance that over the result of their mission.
Do they head back to revive the party member: As long as the city they head to has a church or some sort of cleric available, it's possible. Do they want to risk the mission for it? Do they return to find that the location is now on high alert? Do they fail the mission because of their absence?
You are there to facilitate their story, they are the ones writing it, let them make the hard decisions.
My questions are more along the lines of this:
Assuming they complete the mission and successfully bring the body back, do I have the city leaders amenable?
Assuming they have the strength to carry the body back, are there any mechanics or consequences I should impose for hauling the body around?
How do I weigh giving in-game deaths weight and meaning against players loving a character and wanting to have fun?
I understand that their choices are going to shape the story. I'm trying to get a hold of my own viewpoint and approach to it.
I don't see a reason the church/city leaders wouldn't be amenable. There's a defined cost for resurrection and/or a new plot hook you can tie in to it. The only way it may not work in favor of the players is if their mission is in opposition to the stance of the city/church.
The only mechanics I can think of off hand is encumbrance. Not in the sense that the body is too difficult to carry, but in the sense of extended exertion. Something like this could be easily addressed using the idea that they move slower.
I believe death should usually serve a purpose, if you can tie it into the story somehow then you have a way to make it feel like it has more impact. If the character dies due to the fickle nature of the dice, then I would let that be handled by the players after giving them a dramatic description of their friend being slain. I have found that if you focus on the death of a character it creates its own impact, whereas, if you gloss over it, then the death has less impact (excluding the player who lost their character). If the player wants to save their character, give them a way, if they're already rolling up a new character sheet before the dice stop moving...then I'd ask what they want.
I hope that is more along the lines of what you're asking.
The player has definitely said they would like to have the character come back.
I think I'm wrestling with my own approach to the game. As stated, my background is 1E (never played any edition between that and 5E). Obviously, bringing a character back in 1E was also a possibility but in that version, character death was both more frequent and more frequently permanent. I would like for my campaign world to have real stakes for the characters; I would like the danger to be real, and for them to approach combat with the understanding that the gloves are off and character death is a realistic possibility. Both as a player and a DM, I've found that when combat has stakes, the intensity is increased, as is the subsequent sense of victory (assuming they win) or desire for revenge or a rematch (if they flee and/or suffer losses).
I'm wanting to avoid a video game feel, in which character death is a mere inconvenience rather than an event with impact.
You can use the same approach as with 1e. Back then we had adventuring groups 15-20 characters. Simply because the group would hire houndmasters to protect the camp from nightly ambushes, group of torchbearers to light your path, a group of NPC's to carry all your loot due to encumbrance etc. If one died you hired another one, or carried them back to a town to resurrect them. However back then things were more costly compared to now. Now you're quickly swimming in money without anything to really spend it on.
Also back in the earlier editions the higher lvl NPC's were capable and not just quest hooks waiting to be activated. Those high lvl NPC's were out adventuring and taking care of their own business. They weren't always around to accommodate the players. Same can be applied in 5e. Not every city has people of sufficient level to perform a Resurrection. And that NPC's might be out of town for a while as well. I just simply roll a D20 and if its a 11-20 then the NPC is in town to aid the group. Depending if other variables are met. Such as some Thac0 has mentioned.
When transporting. Is the party performing occasional "Gentle Repose"?. If not the body is decaying and that will have impact on the resurrection for example. Does the group also have the required ingredients in their possession? Or do they expect the church that performs the ritual to have it all at hand? How common are such acts in your setting?
For narrative reasons I also like Matt Mercer's approach to performing such a ritual. Turn it into a 4e skill challenge. And every time the ritual has to be performed on the same character the DC rises. So eventually it might be high enough to make sure the character stays dead. Also throw in some harrowing mental/soul aspect if the same character keeps dying regularly.
When coming from older editions it can be difficult to deal with how forgiving 5e is. At its core it offers so many safety nets that the threat of danger is very low. It quickly becomes none existing either. To have some sense of dread and lasting consequences it takes a lot of homebrew ruling. Otherwise your player characters will be super heroes in no time to which death is just a pointless obstacle.
I have played since 1980 rules 2-5e, both as player and dm. Resurre tion or raise dead are always possible, but it comes at a cost, usually around 1000 gps. now the question is how are they going to get their friend back to the city or church without a beast of burden. carrying them theirselves is possible, but would take a day or two. they could always make a stretcher out of wood, branches and some kind of large clothe and drag them that way, which would take about a day. and as a dm, you could throw in an encounter or two on the way back, cause it would be noisy dragging them, and the dead stink, attracting monsters.
I have been playing AD&D since 1980, both as a player and DM, using rules 2.0-5e
For those who read and contributed: I decided to use existing campaign events and details to handle this. The location to which the party returned (with the body) had no diamonds of the needed value....but there was a city within a couple days' travel that does, and NPCs from the current location have a relationship with the dwarven community in the other city.
So the party will be traveling to the other city to obtain a diamond...and maybe, just maybe, complications will ensue. They've cast gentle repose on the dead character, so they've bought themselves some time, but there's still a time limit on them if they want to get the character back.
I'm happy with this. It allows for more worldbuilding, more role-playing for everyone, and assuming they're successful, there will be a real sense of accomplishment and meaning to the dead character's return.
That's a great way to have handled it. Well done
Was it a player character's character that died? Is that person playing another character or did you solve that in another way?
that was a pc character. playing the same character
I have been playing AD&D since 1980, both as a player and DM, using rules 2.0-5e
A PC died; we rolled that player another character up and worked that character into the adventure. However, the player expressed a strong preference for the character that had died.