when players fail a DC to for exemple break down a door, but breaking down that door is essential for the scenario to continue, what solution do you come up with?
It also depends on how time sensitive the scenario is. Like, they failed the strength check to break down the door. Either you can tell them they need to find another way, or have them succeed, but at a cost. So it may take them ten minutes to break down the door and now the villain finishes his ritual. Or it takes them a couple tries so the guards have time to prepare for the party and get a surprise round. Failure doesn’t just have to be a lack of success—it can be success with a cost.
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Harry Hoblin, the happy goblin, doin' all of the goblin things
He likes murder, loot, and pillage; he's doin' all of the goblin things
He'll eat your puppies and your babies; he's doin' all of the goblin things
Maybe give slight suggestions to the party on how they could attack the situation. Have them burn the door or search around and find a crowbar of some kind to give them advantage on the check or even invent a hidden door and suggest they investigate the area. Also entrances don't have to be just doorways. Chimneys, trapdoors, windows, even spell effects can create entrances or exits.
Things like breaking doors, or moving away rubble from a collapsed tunnel, or ( usually ) picking locks, etc. - are all things that the Party absolutely can do, given enough time. If there is no time limit, there's zero chance of failure, as they can just keep trying until they succeed.
Unless there is an immediate time pressure ( bad guys are charging, room is filling with water, they need to get through the door before the beautiful monster is sacrificed by the evil princess ), I view skill rolls in such circumstances to be an indication of time passed and/or created side effects, not of success/failure - and I scale the results to the level of failure.
Party needs to bash down a door? OK, DC is 15 ( sturdy door! ), and the Barbarian makes an Athletics check, and rolls a 10. To me, this indicates that the Barbarian still can bash down the door, but it takes 5 minutes of bashing and hacking to break the door enough to get through.
In those 5 minutes, other stuff can happen in the world, time limits get smaller, bad guys can hear the Barbarian battering at the door, etc.
I also use the width of the miss to figure out possible side effects. Rogue tries to pick a lock with a DC of 12, and rolls an 11? OK, takes a few minutes, and leaves trace scratches on the lock that the town guard might notice if they examine the lock. Rolled a 3? Takes better part of an hour to hack through the lock, and beats the hell out of it, so that even someone just using the door has a really good chance of noticing that the lock has been almost destroyed.
If there is time pressure, I fall back to multiple rolls, but you have to add rising dramatic tension, or there's no point in just asking for roll after roll with no consequences: " The room starts to fill with water? OK, try and pick the lock to get out? 4? Nope, water is up to your ankles ... 11? Water is up to your knees now ... 9? OK, most of you are up to your waist, and the gnome Barbarian is having to jump up and down to get air, given that she's wearing full plate - anyone helping her? ... 14? OK, the lock gives a click and the door pops open... with a roar the water begins to pour out the opening ... everyone give me a Dexterity check ... "
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Others may have said this already, but... Let them succeed, but with consequences. Fail on breaking down a door? You break it down, but get a bunch of splinters, 1d4 damage
Alternatively ,you can let them fail, but with clear implication that it could still work. They don't break it down, but they notice that it's starting to give in, and maybe you even can put down the DC a bit.
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"What do you mean I get disadvantage on persuasion?"
I don't know, Sneet, maybe because your argument is "Submit and become our pet"?
when players fail a DC to for exemple break down a door, but breaking down that door is essential for the scenario to continue, what solution do you come up with?
thanks in advance
You have to be careful with this, (as I've learned) but it's not always impossible to try again. Breaking down a door in combat I would say requires a check. But if the players are willing to take some time in-game then no check is required. Sometimes a check doesn't completely break down the door (or complete the task), but instead lowers the DC.
Sorry for the huge delay guys 've been hospitalised i'm finally back. Basically my options are giving alternatives, succeed but with a cost, and considering the time they put into a task. Those are all great tips! I'll try them my next couple games to see which ones i'm most comfortable with. Thanks again!
If the player characters absolutely must succeed in a task for the adventure to continue, then find a way for them to succeed. Success at a cost is good. Failing that have alternative direction for the scenario to go in.
I try to avoid designing bottlenecks where the whole scenario hinges on a single successful die roll. If the roll is failed the game is over. This is not fun. Success in achieving the goal can hinge on a single dramatic die roll, provided you have as good an end game if the roll is failed as you do if the roll succeeds. Make sure there is always a way for the game to continue.
If they fail to destroy the Crown of Corruption before the villain gets his hands on it they now have a more powerful villain to fight, but don't let the villain use it to instantly subdue the whole world unless you really want to end the campaign on a major down note. You can lead the players to believe that the consequences of letting the villain get his hands on the Crown will be instant world subjugation however.
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ey guys i'm a new dm and i have a noob question
when players fail a DC to for exemple break down a door, but breaking down that door is essential for the scenario to continue, what solution do you come up with?
thanks in advance
Usually, there should be another option to proceed. Players will often try something creative, and sometimes failure is just an option.
It also depends on how time sensitive the scenario is. Like, they failed the strength check to break down the door. Either you can tell them they need to find another way, or have them succeed, but at a cost. So it may take them ten minutes to break down the door and now the villain finishes his ritual. Or it takes them a couple tries so the guards have time to prepare for the party and get a surprise round. Failure doesn’t just have to be a lack of success—it can be success with a cost.
Harry Hoblin, the happy goblin, doin' all of the goblin things
He likes murder, loot, and pillage; he's doin' all of the goblin things
He'll eat your puppies and your babies; he's doin' all of the goblin things
Maybe give slight suggestions to the party on how they could attack the situation. Have them burn the door or search around and find a crowbar of some kind to give them advantage on the check or even invent a hidden door and suggest they investigate the area. Also entrances don't have to be just doorways. Chimneys, trapdoors, windows, even spell effects can create entrances or exits.
Things like breaking doors, or moving away rubble from a collapsed tunnel, or ( usually ) picking locks, etc. - are all things that the Party absolutely can do, given enough time. If there is no time limit, there's zero chance of failure, as they can just keep trying until they succeed.
Unless there is an immediate time pressure ( bad guys are charging, room is filling with water, they need to get through the door before the beautiful monster is sacrificed by the evil princess ), I view skill rolls in such circumstances to be an indication of time passed and/or created side effects, not of success/failure - and I scale the results to the level of failure.
Party needs to bash down a door? OK, DC is 15 ( sturdy door! ), and the Barbarian makes an Athletics check, and rolls a 10. To me, this indicates that the Barbarian still can bash down the door, but it takes 5 minutes of bashing and hacking to break the door enough to get through.
In those 5 minutes, other stuff can happen in the world, time limits get smaller, bad guys can hear the Barbarian battering at the door, etc.
I also use the width of the miss to figure out possible side effects. Rogue tries to pick a lock with a DC of 12, and rolls an 11? OK, takes a few minutes, and leaves trace scratches on the lock that the town guard might notice if they examine the lock. Rolled a 3? Takes better part of an hour to hack through the lock, and beats the hell out of it, so that even someone just using the door has a really good chance of noticing that the lock has been almost destroyed.
If there is time pressure, I fall back to multiple rolls, but you have to add rising dramatic tension, or there's no point in just asking for roll after roll with no consequences: " The room starts to fill with water? OK, try and pick the lock to get out? 4? Nope, water is up to your ankles ... 11? Water is up to your knees now ... 9? OK, most of you are up to your waist, and the gnome Barbarian is having to jump up and down to get air, given that she's wearing full plate - anyone helping her? ... 14? OK, the lock gives a click and the door pops open... with a roar the water begins to pour out the opening ... everyone give me a Dexterity check ... "
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Others may have said this already, but... Let them succeed, but with consequences. Fail on breaking down a door? You break it down, but get a bunch of splinters, 1d4 damage
Alternatively ,you can let them fail, but with clear implication that it could still work. They don't break it down, but they notice that it's starting to give in, and maybe you even can put down the DC a bit.
"What do you mean I get disadvantage on persuasion?"
I don't know, Sneet, maybe because your argument is "Submit and become our pet"?
-Actual conversation in a game.
You have to be careful with this, (as I've learned) but it's not always impossible to try again. Breaking down a door in combat I would say requires a check. But if the players are willing to take some time in-game then no check is required. Sometimes a check doesn't completely break down the door (or complete the task), but instead lowers the DC.
Sorry for the huge delay guys 've been hospitalised i'm finally back. Basically my options are giving alternatives, succeed but with a cost, and considering the time they put into a task. Those are all great tips! I'll try them my next couple games to see which ones i'm most comfortable with. Thanks again!
If the player characters absolutely must succeed in a task for the adventure to continue, then find a way for them to succeed. Success at a cost is good. Failing that have alternative direction for the scenario to go in.
I try to avoid designing bottlenecks where the whole scenario hinges on a single successful die roll. If the roll is failed the game is over. This is not fun. Success in achieving the goal can hinge on a single dramatic die roll, provided you have as good an end game if the roll is failed as you do if the roll succeeds. Make sure there is always a way for the game to continue.
If they fail to destroy the Crown of Corruption before the villain gets his hands on it they now have a more powerful villain to fight, but don't let the villain use it to instantly subdue the whole world unless you really want to end the campaign on a major down note. You can lead the players to believe that the consequences of letting the villain get his hands on the Crown will be instant world subjugation however.