TL;DR: I'm starting a new campaign soon. I've had etiquette issues in the past with some of my players and want to make sure that both these players and any potential new ones know what I won't tolerate at my table. What are some definitive rules that I can lay down to make sure this is the case, and should I be worried that I'm being too controlling?
I'll be running a new homebrew campaign soon, and after previous experiences DMing (with some but not all of the same players as this new campaign), I want to have clear expectations in place from the start to keep my sanity. These will be clearly discussed with the group before we even begin playing, and while I certainly don't want my players to be turned off by it, I also want them to understand that these rules are non-negotiable. I've already talked to some of them about it, but I've had to do so repeatedly and I think it's time to have set rules with tangible consequences. The reason I don't want to stop playing with these people is because they genuinely want to play and I don't think they do these things out of malice, they just often forget what I've previously told them (it may be worth mentioning that more than half the people at the table, including myself, have ADHD and this is a big contributor).
Here is a list of the biggest issues I've had previously:
Excessive arguing and complaining about rules. Sometimes it was just about my personal rulings, such as not allowing a player to carry around a giant-sized sword and still move and fight normally despite there being no rule that specifically said they couldn't. Other times, it was about the rules themselves, with one player even saying that they hated movement speed and resenting not being able to just put their character anywhere they wanted at any time. Even when it wasn't taking chunks of argument time away from the game, which it often did, I still found it draining, distracting, and disrespectful.
Players checking out, usually when it's not their turn in combat, but it's also happened out of combat and even while the characters are directly engaged in conversation with NPCs. I'm sure banning phones and laptops at the table would help, but we use phone apps for spells and rules and I have no way to tell from behind the screen whether they're using them for that or just looking at memes. Also, I worry that banning electronics would turn the players against me and maybe stop them from wanting to play altogether.
Some or all of the players getting totally sidetracked by lengthy, non-D&D related conversations. I don't mind so much if it's the whole group, but it's a real problem when some players are trying to RP and others are loudly talking over them about other things.
Taking forever to act on their turns or just not knowing what their spells and/or attacks do, despite having had plenty of time to learn it or at least look it up.
Antisocial PCs, to the point of making their own separate camp 20 feet away so they don't have to sleep with the party.
Trying to control things that are DM territory: For example, one player literally handing me a list of magic items they wanted their character to get and expecting me to make them available either for purchase or to find. Another, less direct example is one player writing into their backstory a whole bunch of things that the character would have no way of knowing.
Therefore, I want to make sure that both these players and any potential new players know this kind of behavior has no place at my table, to prevent future headaches. Are there any house rules that other DMs out there have found to help with this sort of thing? What are the appropriate consequences for breaking the rules? And what's a good way to make sure everyone knows that I'm serious about this without seeming too harsh or making an enemy of the players? Is there some way I can curb this behavior without resorting to punishing them for doing it? I love DMing and want everyone to have fun and be engaged, I just don't want to feel like I'm constantly having to argue with or corral the players. What can I do?
Tell them that these things won't be tolerated, stick to your guns, and let them know that if they don't agree, or break the rules, they're going to sit out a game or session depending on how grievous the infraction is.
Rules arguments: I'm the DM, when I make my decision it is final. Any and all conversation about that ruling will happen after the game.
No electronics: There are spell cards, 3x5 cards, and many other materials that can be used instead. (I made the same rule, and once the players became better about it, and I started Streaming, I let it slide. However, I will call them out if they seem too engrossed in their phone.)
Not ready for their turn: Set a timer and let them all know that if they do not react in that time frame their turn is skipped. Announce the next players turn as soon as the person before them is up. So if Thom has initiative 18 and Erlyn is initiative 16, on initiative 18 tell Erlyn their turn is coming up.
Side/Table talk: Simply ask them to keep it down, call them out by name. Tell them you can't hear the person trying to talk. Let them know that if they're not paying attention any information they miss is missed.
Anti-Social PCs: Tell them that they are in a group game and loners will not be tolerated. They are left behind if they decide to stay behind. Give them a chance to participate, write in something about the background to tie them into the story/group. If they insist on being loners, they aren't going to be in the party.
Dictating their possessions/rewards: You make the rules, you decide what happens. Deny them their backstory if it doesn't make sense. Tell them that the items they want are noted and may, or may not, become available. Give them in-game ways to make, find, or have the items crafted.
----
In the end be firm and fair, give a little leeway, and be consistent. You know your players are a handful, so for now you'll have to "teach" them how to act and make sure they understand that you won't balk at sticking firm to the rules. As they get better, you can loosen the grip and let little things slide.
Here is a list of the biggest issues I've had previously:
Excessive arguing and complaining about rules. Sometimes it was just about my personal rulings, such as not allowing a player to carry around a giant-sized sword and still move and fight normally despite there being no rule that specifically said they couldn't. Other times, it was about the rules themselves, with one player even saying that they hated movement speed and resenting not being able to just put their character anywhere they wanted at any time. Even when it wasn't taking chunks of argument time away from the game, which it often did, I still found it draining, distracting, and disrespectful.
rule more strictly against them the more they argue
Players checking out, usually when it's not their turn in combat, but it's also happened out of combat and even while the characters are directly engaged in conversation with NPCs. I'm sure banning phones and laptops at the table would help, but we use phone apps for spells and rules and I have no way to tell from behind the screen whether they're using them for that or just looking at memes. Also, I worry that banning electronics would turn the players against me and maybe stop them from wanting to play altogether.
They have 5 seconds to indicate what they are doing when addressed. Forfeit their turn otherwise
Some or all of the players getting totally sidetracked by lengthy, non-D&D related conversations. I don't mind so much if it's the whole group, but it's a real problem when some players are trying to RP and others are loudly talking over them about other things.
everything they say in such a context is “in character”
Taking forever to act on their turns or just not knowing what their spells and/or attacks do, despite having had plenty of time to learn it or at least look it up.
See second comment, above
Antisocial PCs, to the point of making their own separate camp 20 feet away so they don't have to sleep with the party.
meh
Trying to control things that are DM territory: For example, one player literally handing me a list of magic items they wanted their character to get and expecting me to make them available either for purchase or to find. Another, less direct example is one player writing into their backstory a whole bunch of things that the character would have no way of knowing.
Players don’t like it, but you could get them to manage initiative. Or side initiative so the PCs go all at once and then the monsters go all at once (or vice versa). That way they have to be on their toes.
No, Greg, that is terrible advice, far too antagonistic and asinine.
To the first, tell them that any rules disputes are to be brought up AFTER THE SESSION IS OVER; until then, your ruling stands for the sake of keeping the game going. Then, you and the player can debate the ruling. And 'nothing says I can't' isn't an argument. The Air Bud Defense is bull.
For 2,3, and 4, ask them what the deal is. Why they aren't interested, why they're being so rude and disrespectful.
For 5.1, he's giving you plot hooks, or at least adventure ideas. If he wants a particular magic item made, he can seek out someone willing and able to make it (a potential adventure by itself), and then he'll have to go acquire the rare and bizarre ingredients needed to make it. He wants it, he'll have to work for it.
For 5.2, work with him to make a more cohesive, sensical backstory. Tell him that's just too much and there are too many inconsistencies and too much convolution, and work with him to streamline it.
Hello all,
TL;DR: I'm starting a new campaign soon. I've had etiquette issues in the past with some of my players and want to make sure that both these players and any potential new ones know what I won't tolerate at my table. What are some definitive rules that I can lay down to make sure this is the case, and should I be worried that I'm being too controlling?
I'll be running a new homebrew campaign soon, and after previous experiences DMing (with some but not all of the same players as this new campaign), I want to have clear expectations in place from the start to keep my sanity. These will be clearly discussed with the group before we even begin playing, and while I certainly don't want my players to be turned off by it, I also want them to understand that these rules are non-negotiable. I've already talked to some of them about it, but I've had to do so repeatedly and I think it's time to have set rules with tangible consequences. The reason I don't want to stop playing with these people is because they genuinely want to play and I don't think they do these things out of malice, they just often forget what I've previously told them (it may be worth mentioning that more than half the people at the table, including myself, have ADHD and this is a big contributor).
Here is a list of the biggest issues I've had previously:
Therefore, I want to make sure that both these players and any potential new players know this kind of behavior has no place at my table, to prevent future headaches. Are there any house rules that other DMs out there have found to help with this sort of thing? What are the appropriate consequences for breaking the rules? And what's a good way to make sure everyone knows that I'm serious about this without seeming too harsh or making an enemy of the players? Is there some way I can curb this behavior without resorting to punishing them for doing it? I love DMing and want everyone to have fun and be engaged, I just don't want to feel like I'm constantly having to argue with or corral the players. What can I do?
Put simply:
Tell them that these things won't be tolerated, stick to your guns, and let them know that if they don't agree, or break the rules, they're going to sit out a game or session depending on how grievous the infraction is.
Rules arguments: I'm the DM, when I make my decision it is final. Any and all conversation about that ruling will happen after the game.
No electronics: There are spell cards, 3x5 cards, and many other materials that can be used instead. (I made the same rule, and once the players became better about it, and I started Streaming, I let it slide. However, I will call them out if they seem too engrossed in their phone.)
Not ready for their turn: Set a timer and let them all know that if they do not react in that time frame their turn is skipped. Announce the next players turn as soon as the person before them is up. So if Thom has initiative 18 and Erlyn is initiative 16, on initiative 18 tell Erlyn their turn is coming up.
Side/Table talk: Simply ask them to keep it down, call them out by name. Tell them you can't hear the person trying to talk. Let them know that if they're not paying attention any information they miss is missed.
Anti-Social PCs: Tell them that they are in a group game and loners will not be tolerated. They are left behind if they decide to stay behind. Give them a chance to participate, write in something about the background to tie them into the story/group. If they insist on being loners, they aren't going to be in the party.
Dictating their possessions/rewards: You make the rules, you decide what happens. Deny them their backstory if it doesn't make sense. Tell them that the items they want are noted and may, or may not, become available. Give them in-game ways to make, find, or have the items crafted.
----
In the end be firm and fair, give a little leeway, and be consistent. You know your players are a handful, so for now you'll have to "teach" them how to act and make sure they understand that you won't balk at sticking firm to the rules. As they get better, you can loosen the grip and let little things slide.
Players don’t like it, but you could get them to manage initiative. Or side initiative so the PCs go all at once and then the monsters go all at once (or vice versa). That way they have to be on their toes.
No, Greg, that is terrible advice, far too antagonistic and asinine.
To the first, tell them that any rules disputes are to be brought up AFTER THE SESSION IS OVER; until then, your ruling stands for the sake of keeping the game going. Then, you and the player can debate the ruling. And 'nothing says I can't' isn't an argument. The Air Bud Defense is bull.
For 2,3, and 4, ask them what the deal is. Why they aren't interested, why they're being so rude and disrespectful.
For 5.1, he's giving you plot hooks, or at least adventure ideas. If he wants a particular magic item made, he can seek out someone willing and able to make it (a potential adventure by itself), and then he'll have to go acquire the rare and bizarre ingredients needed to make it. He wants it, he'll have to work for it.
For 5.2, work with him to make a more cohesive, sensical backstory. Tell him that's just too much and there are too many inconsistencies and too much convolution, and work with him to streamline it.