OK so I just got into D&D and am absolutely loving it, my party is all first time players and haven't been doing to well. Really I need help with two things; 1 is there a way that Dragon of Icespire peak can be played after lost mines with the same characters, I'm thinking maybe just bring in better monsters and more encounters and maybe make the dragon an adult but I'm not sure really how I would do that and I'm not sure how to change the amount of Xp given. Number 2, so the story that I am writing takes place after the events of lost mines and icespire, the main antagonist is a necromancer who was once a druid that was on the verge of death and prayed to a demon (still tbd) and the demon made a deal with him, "Become a patron of evil, kill the gods and you will be rewarded with immortality" the demon gives this druid a white dragon egg and says, "raise this dragon so that evil is the only was it knows, it will become a weapon of destruction for you and a symbol of your strength" at that the demon leaves and the Druid follows his orders and leaves his adopted son (main protagonist) to learn the way of the necromancer. About 20 years into this necromancers training he becomes a master with the help of the demon, the necromancer comes across a young abandoned drow elf and gives him the name, the Black Spider. He trains this elf until he can start spreading the word of evil across the sword coast. The necromancer sends the elf off to destroy the town of Phandalin, and learns of his defeat. Enraged, he sends his (now adult) white dragon, Cryovain, to finish the job Nezznar started. The dragon takes a liking to Icespire peak but is soon defeated by the same band of adventurers. Now more angry than ever calls upon the demon and asks for a way to defeat these seemingly invincible adventurers. The demon tells him all their weaknesses and past wrongs and how to destroy them mentally as well as physically. The necromancer takes this information and summons one of the party members dead loved one to fight and kill them ( by now the necromancer has killed nature, war, peace, death and has been trying to juggle fighting time as well as the adventurers) The party fights and is about to lose when a mysterious druid leaps out of the forest and saves the adventurers, killing the undead loved one. The druid tells the party that he has been hunting his father, a necromancer who has been sending powerful beings, including the dead loved one, to kill the adventurers. This druid joins the party and helps lay siege to his fathers lair. Eventually after long fighting they destroy the necromancer, with the druid dying in the process. The god of time. who was imprisoned there, thanks the adventurers and offers them the place of the gods who have died, the adventurers accept (this is a story that ends these characters journeys seeing as how they should be level 20 and have agreed that once they are there will give up on adventuring and live peaceful lives, they don't know about becoming gods but will have to accept the offer) and take the places except for one who is too humble to accept (the wizard) and leaves the place of nature open. With the adventurers newfound power they bring back the druid from the dead and make him the god of nature. Peace is restored to the Sword Coast and that is the end of the adventure. Obviously this is just an overview but its a start. Really what I am looking for is advice to running and writing the adventure as well as opinions and tips for first time Dm's. Thanks!
Hi Wulvoream! Welcome to the D&D community! We're glad to have you!
Okay, let me jump into this. Here's a few mistakes to avoid (and I've made every one of them at some point in my career, so don't feel bad)! Let's look at this passage:
"The party fights and is about to lose when a mysterious druid leaps out of the forest and saves the adventurers, killing the undead loved one. The druid tells the party that he has been hunting his father, a necromancer who has been sending powerful beings, including the dead loved one, to kill the adventurers. This druid joins the party and helps lay siege to his fathers lair. Eventually after long fighting they destroy the necromancer, with the druid dying in the process."
1: Don't let a powerful NPC overshadow the party by saving them at the last second. That makes the players feel useless, like they can't affect the story. Remember, they're the heroes!
2: Don't make fights unwinnable or NPCs (like the "undead loved one" or druid) unsaveable. Yes, these things can be difficult, but if the outcome is predetermined, the players are just walking through this novel you've written, and it's not their story at all. Neither success nor failure should ever be inevitable.
3. Don't make the story about an NPC. Right now, this is the druid's story: he saves the party, his father is the villain, he dies heroically, etc. And then he becomes the god of nature?! Let me be honest, as a player who might or might not play in your game as written. I'm sorry, but this isn't Druid's story: it's the players'! Druid has NO place here. If you want to tell this story, make the villain the father of one of the player characters, and let them become gods at the end!
So this basically boils down to one thing: the players are the stars of the show. Always. No exceptions. They may fail at times, but they should always have the chance and choice to succeed (or not!), and the story should revolve around them.
Here's my #1 tip, which I use regardless of how many years I've DMed for. Don't plan too far ahead. Don't try to be epic right away. Put your awesome Lord of the Rings story (which does sound super cool) on the back burner and wait until you get to level 20, or at least 10, for that. Start at square one.
Think like a TV show, with a new plotline every week. At lower levels, this might mean an orc lord attacking the town, or an evil wizard whose ritual must be stopped. Go step by step...and then, when you do get to high levels, you can reveal that this was all part of your necromancer's master plan!
Thanks for the feedback I just have a few questions, if the Druid shouldn’t save the party last second maybe should he join it beforehand and just help defeat the loved one because this encounter will be pretty early in the story. And with the nature god thing, the players would have become gods before and then raise their friend and ally to become the god of nature seeing as he is the only and obvious option. Really I’m trying to make it about the characters with all the background with nezznar and cryovain and then seeking revenge on the terror of the sword coast, so from that should the Druid be a lesser role? Because I’ve got him in the story to add a new depth to these players quest.
I do think those are good solutions, but if I'm being honest, here's a few questions.
(1) What does the druid really do for the story? I don't think the undead loved one is a particularly powerful foe--heck, it could be a basic zombie and it would be just as impactful, so the druid's not needed to swing the fight for the party (in fact, he shouldn't). And if you maybe make the necromancer a relative of one of the players, he becomes 100% unnecessary. That adds a TON more depth to the players' quest...and you can get even more if you tie in other characters (maybe the necromancer murdered their parents, or he was a childhood rival).
(2) Why do you want the druid in the story? As a fellow Dungeon Master who feels the same way at times, it sounds like you have this awesome, powerful hero you want to have in the party. Maybe you really wish you got to be a player character, maybe you just love this awesome druid, or maybe some of both. Unfortunately, these aren't real reasons to make the druid a hero in a story that's otherwise about the players.
I really think, to be completely honest, that the best thing to do here is to remove the druid altogether. That answers question (1) and solves the problem of the party being overshadowed.
But, as a fellow Dungeon Master, I get it! The #1 thing I would suggest is playing the druid (or a similar character) in another game as a player character. Ask one of your friends to be the DM for a one-shot or maybe even every other week, or maybe try to find an Adventurer's League game in the area (that's what I did!). When you scratch that player itch, you can go back to DMing and focus on making the game as fun as possible for your players and letting them be the heroes. That's really the most rewarding part!
One more thing: right now, I don't know if you have enough content to make it all the way to 20th level. Remember, think small! In Lost Mines, the heroes don't discover the Black Spider's existence until 2nd or 3rd level, and don't directly fight him until 4th. Instead, there's a goblin cave, a bandit hideout, etc, each with its own villain who later turns out to be tied to the larger plot. Model your adventure after that, and use a new villain (all minions of the necromancer, of course!) and setting for each level until you make it where you want! (And be ready to unleash the endgame any time...I'm a veteran player of about ten years and I've yet to play a game to maximum level. I usually end as low as 4th-7th.)
Most importantly, have fun!
Edit: Just reread your original post and I have two quick things. (1) D&D should never have a "main protagonist." I tried that once and all the (other) players got pissed. All the heroes are equally important: think more Game of Thrones and less Lord of the Rings. (2) Looks like you're assuming what your players will do (i.e. the wizard is too humble to accept godhood.) Let them decide those things when the time comes! Otherwise, they're your characters you've written, and the players are just forced to play them as they stumble through your novel. Sorry if I sound harsh, but please, learn from my mistakes! Trust me, when you think of an RPG as a "story" you're "writing," it can and will go to pot really fast.
Yeah, the druid saving the day is a bit too much like removing the players choice. I had an idea, which doesn't resolve what I just said, but I think it's interesting anyway, so here you go.
It's the same druid. Time (who is fighting a losing battle) has reached back and grabbed the Druid before he became evil, and brought him forward to the current day. He meets the party at some point and they tell him about the problem, he joins as an NPC that a player controls, to destroy the evil NecroDruid (who is him, not that he knwos that). During the final battle, link the Druids HP with the NecroDruids. Every time one takes damage, so does the other. Eventually the players will figure it out and there will have to be a sacrifice. This would work even better if a player is sick of their character and you can write theirs out to write the Druid in when they meet, all without telling them what the twist is going to be. Then the Druid can maybe become Death (considering they're dead already and death is a very natural part of life, so it makes sense too).
As far as the original issue, I would just write them in as a recurring NPC that offers druidic advice for the party. Maybe some healing when the party gets beat up.
So should I get rid of him or should he be a NPC they encounter a few times and maybe in the last battle just for a little help in case I'm rolling 20's and they're rolling 1's (this has been happening in lost mines and everyone has been knocked unconscious 3 times and never got past the 3rd area of Cragmaw hideout until the 13th hour of playing which is over the course of 3 days)
Edit: with the wizard being to humble to accept I have talked to him aside from the table and he said he wants his character to have a chill ending but even if he changes his mind I could just have Time die and another god grant them godhood or something like that. Also thanks for all the feedback it's really helpful and I always love getting constructive criticism!
I would actually tone down alot of it. Personally after you run both of those two campaigns I would look at branching out from that area. Keep the druid and the Necro but put them somewhere else on the map. And have the druid a bit more in the dark about his past having the players slowly under the necros backstory some how and then returning to the druid to fill him in on who he really is. And how he's important to being the key to stopping the necro. Then have the final battle take place where everything started. Giving the full circle effect. Or making black spider his long lost brother and now he wanted revenger for either you kill him and joins his father or having him hate his father for tearing apart the family and denying him a decent family growing up
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
OK so I just got into D&D and am absolutely loving it, my party is all first time players and haven't been doing to well. Really I need help with two things; 1 is there a way that Dragon of Icespire peak can be played after lost mines with the same characters, I'm thinking maybe just bring in better monsters and more encounters and maybe make the dragon an adult but I'm not sure really how I would do that and I'm not sure how to change the amount of Xp given. Number 2, so the story that I am writing takes place after the events of lost mines and icespire, the main antagonist is a necromancer who was once a druid that was on the verge of death and prayed to a demon (still tbd) and the demon made a deal with him, "Become a patron of evil, kill the gods and you will be rewarded with immortality" the demon gives this druid a white dragon egg and says, "raise this dragon so that evil is the only was it knows, it will become a weapon of destruction for you and a symbol of your strength" at that the demon leaves and the Druid follows his orders and leaves his adopted son (main protagonist) to learn the way of the necromancer. About 20 years into this necromancers training he becomes a master with the help of the demon, the necromancer comes across a young abandoned drow elf and gives him the name, the Black Spider. He trains this elf until he can start spreading the word of evil across the sword coast. The necromancer sends the elf off to destroy the town of Phandalin, and learns of his defeat. Enraged, he sends his (now adult) white dragon, Cryovain, to finish the job Nezznar started. The dragon takes a liking to Icespire peak but is soon defeated by the same band of adventurers. Now more angry than ever calls upon the demon and asks for a way to defeat these seemingly invincible adventurers. The demon tells him all their weaknesses and past wrongs and how to destroy them mentally as well as physically. The necromancer takes this information and summons one of the party members dead loved one to fight and kill them ( by now the necromancer has killed nature, war, peace, death and has been trying to juggle fighting time as well as the adventurers) The party fights and is about to lose when a mysterious druid leaps out of the forest and saves the adventurers, killing the undead loved one. The druid tells the party that he has been hunting his father, a necromancer who has been sending powerful beings, including the dead loved one, to kill the adventurers. This druid joins the party and helps lay siege to his fathers lair. Eventually after long fighting they destroy the necromancer, with the druid dying in the process. The god of time. who was imprisoned there, thanks the adventurers and offers them the place of the gods who have died, the adventurers accept (this is a story that ends these characters journeys seeing as how they should be level 20 and have agreed that once they are there will give up on adventuring and live peaceful lives, they don't know about becoming gods but will have to accept the offer) and take the places except for one who is too humble to accept (the wizard) and leaves the place of nature open. With the adventurers newfound power they bring back the druid from the dead and make him the god of nature. Peace is restored to the Sword Coast and that is the end of the adventure. Obviously this is just an overview but its a start. Really what I am looking for is advice to running and writing the adventure as well as opinions and tips for first time Dm's. Thanks!
Hi Wulvoream! Welcome to the D&D community! We're glad to have you!
Okay, let me jump into this. Here's a few mistakes to avoid (and I've made every one of them at some point in my career, so don't feel bad)! Let's look at this passage:
"The party fights and is about to lose when a mysterious druid leaps out of the forest and saves the adventurers, killing the undead loved one. The druid tells the party that he has been hunting his father, a necromancer who has been sending powerful beings, including the dead loved one, to kill the adventurers. This druid joins the party and helps lay siege to his fathers lair. Eventually after long fighting they destroy the necromancer, with the druid dying in the process."
1: Don't let a powerful NPC overshadow the party by saving them at the last second. That makes the players feel useless, like they can't affect the story. Remember, they're the heroes!
2: Don't make fights unwinnable or NPCs (like the "undead loved one" or druid) unsaveable. Yes, these things can be difficult, but if the outcome is predetermined, the players are just walking through this novel you've written, and it's not their story at all. Neither success nor failure should ever be inevitable.
3. Don't make the story about an NPC. Right now, this is the druid's story: he saves the party, his father is the villain, he dies heroically, etc. And then he becomes the god of nature?! Let me be honest, as a player who might or might not play in your game as written. I'm sorry, but this isn't Druid's story: it's the players'! Druid has NO place here. If you want to tell this story, make the villain the father of one of the player characters, and let them become gods at the end!
So this basically boils down to one thing: the players are the stars of the show. Always. No exceptions. They may fail at times, but they should always have the chance and choice to succeed (or not!), and the story should revolve around them.
Here's my #1 tip, which I use regardless of how many years I've DMed for. Don't plan too far ahead. Don't try to be epic right away. Put your awesome Lord of the Rings story (which does sound super cool) on the back burner and wait until you get to level 20, or at least 10, for that. Start at square one.
Think like a TV show, with a new plotline every week. At lower levels, this might mean an orc lord attacking the town, or an evil wizard whose ritual must be stopped. Go step by step...and then, when you do get to high levels, you can reveal that this was all part of your necromancer's master plan!
Good luck! I'm sure you'll be great!
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Thanks for the feedback I just have a few questions, if the Druid shouldn’t save the party last second maybe should he join it beforehand and just help defeat the loved one because this encounter will be pretty early in the story. And with the nature god thing, the players would have become gods before and then raise their friend and ally to become the god of nature seeing as he is the only and obvious option. Really I’m trying to make it about the characters with all the background with nezznar and cryovain and then seeking revenge on the terror of the sword coast, so from that should the Druid be a lesser role? Because I’ve got him in the story to add a new depth to these players quest.
I do think those are good solutions, but if I'm being honest, here's a few questions.
(1) What does the druid really do for the story? I don't think the undead loved one is a particularly powerful foe--heck, it could be a basic zombie and it would be just as impactful, so the druid's not needed to swing the fight for the party (in fact, he shouldn't). And if you maybe make the necromancer a relative of one of the players, he becomes 100% unnecessary. That adds a TON more depth to the players' quest...and you can get even more if you tie in other characters (maybe the necromancer murdered their parents, or he was a childhood rival).
(2) Why do you want the druid in the story? As a fellow Dungeon Master who feels the same way at times, it sounds like you have this awesome, powerful hero you want to have in the party. Maybe you really wish you got to be a player character, maybe you just love this awesome druid, or maybe some of both. Unfortunately, these aren't real reasons to make the druid a hero in a story that's otherwise about the players.
I really think, to be completely honest, that the best thing to do here is to remove the druid altogether. That answers question (1) and solves the problem of the party being overshadowed.
But, as a fellow Dungeon Master, I get it! The #1 thing I would suggest is playing the druid (or a similar character) in another game as a player character. Ask one of your friends to be the DM for a one-shot or maybe even every other week, or maybe try to find an Adventurer's League game in the area (that's what I did!). When you scratch that player itch, you can go back to DMing and focus on making the game as fun as possible for your players and letting them be the heroes. That's really the most rewarding part!
One more thing: right now, I don't know if you have enough content to make it all the way to 20th level. Remember, think small! In Lost Mines, the heroes don't discover the Black Spider's existence until 2nd or 3rd level, and don't directly fight him until 4th. Instead, there's a goblin cave, a bandit hideout, etc, each with its own villain who later turns out to be tied to the larger plot. Model your adventure after that, and use a new villain (all minions of the necromancer, of course!) and setting for each level until you make it where you want! (And be ready to unleash the endgame any time...I'm a veteran player of about ten years and I've yet to play a game to maximum level. I usually end as low as 4th-7th.)
Most importantly, have fun!
Edit: Just reread your original post and I have two quick things. (1) D&D should never have a "main protagonist." I tried that once and all the (other) players got pissed. All the heroes are equally important: think more Game of Thrones and less Lord of the Rings. (2) Looks like you're assuming what your players will do (i.e. the wizard is too humble to accept godhood.) Let them decide those things when the time comes! Otherwise, they're your characters you've written, and the players are just forced to play them as they stumble through your novel. Sorry if I sound harsh, but please, learn from my mistakes! Trust me, when you think of an RPG as a "story" you're "writing," it can and will go to pot really fast.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Yeah, the druid saving the day is a bit too much like removing the players choice. I had an idea, which doesn't resolve what I just said, but I think it's interesting anyway, so here you go.
It's the same druid. Time (who is fighting a losing battle) has reached back and grabbed the Druid before he became evil, and brought him forward to the current day. He meets the party at some point and they tell him about the problem, he joins as an NPC that a player controls, to destroy the evil NecroDruid (who is him, not that he knwos that). During the final battle, link the Druids HP with the NecroDruids. Every time one takes damage, so does the other. Eventually the players will figure it out and there will have to be a sacrifice. This would work even better if a player is sick of their character and you can write theirs out to write the Druid in when they meet, all without telling them what the twist is going to be. Then the Druid can maybe become Death (considering they're dead already and death is a very natural part of life, so it makes sense too).
As far as the original issue, I would just write them in as a recurring NPC that offers druidic advice for the party. Maybe some healing when the party gets beat up.
So should I get rid of him or should he be a NPC they encounter a few times and maybe in the last battle just for a little help in case I'm rolling 20's and they're rolling 1's (this has been happening in lost mines and everyone has been knocked unconscious 3 times and never got past the 3rd area of Cragmaw hideout until the 13th hour of playing which is over the course of 3 days)
Edit: with the wizard being to humble to accept I have talked to him aside from the table and he said he wants his character to have a chill ending but even if he changes his mind I could just have Time die and another god grant them godhood or something like that. Also thanks for all the feedback it's really helpful and I always love getting constructive criticism!
He could be an NPC that helps them a very little bit. Possible uses are as a source of information and/or extra healing.
Have him get into some trouble and have the party save HIM.
Have him fade out of the story for a few sessions then bring him back as a bad guy.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I would actually tone down alot of it. Personally after you run both of those two campaigns I would look at branching out from that area. Keep the druid and the Necro but put them somewhere else on the map. And have the druid a bit more in the dark about his past having the players slowly under the necros backstory some how and then returning to the druid to fill him in on who he really is. And how he's important to being the key to stopping the necro. Then have the final battle take place where everything started. Giving the full circle effect. Or making black spider his long lost brother and now he wanted revenger for either you kill him and joins his father or having him hate his father for tearing apart the family and denying him a decent family growing up