Hey everyone! Quick summary on my experience: Never played DnD, never DMed, listened to every episode of Not Another DnD Podcast/dabbled in other play-through podcasts/watched all of Dimension 20. I have a VERY limited knowledge of the lore of the DnD universe (close to nothing about pantheons, dragons, geo-politics, etc.), but I'm confident in basic game mechanics.
That being said, I have a group of 6 people who want to play DnD. They have also never played before, and know exactly none of the rules. I decided the easiest thing to do to jump in would be to run through the Hoard of the Dragon Queen module. However, and this is in no way to bash the writers, I feel like the story as it is laid out is lacking the intrigue and emotional reactions that I've come to expect of a campaign (Brennan Lee Mulligan has broken me to the traditional Good vs. Evil dichotomy, I guess).
So, I was thinking about making a couple fairly small but potentially exponential changes to certain NPCs' character traits. The first would be that Castellan Escobert the Red is a classist. He gives an order to prevent the lower-class citizens from entering the keep during the initial attack on Greenest. Through an intimidation/persuasion check (or some other way), the party is able to get the commoners into the keep. This would set Governor Nighthill up as being only nominally a good guy. He will ultimately be someone who "looks out for the people" in so far as he keeps them mostly healthy and keeps them working (I'm going to say that Greenest is actually quite wealthy from agriculture, but Nighthill has established a type of insidious indentured servitude). I'll try to let this on in subtle ways, like in the Mill mission I'll have Nighthill initially declare that if the mill burns they'll lose all that potential for gold, then catch himself and state that more importantly the people will go hungry. We will later see (provided the party captures a prisoner for Nighthill and his guard to interrogate) that Nighthill is SERIOUSLY sadistic. Again, breaking this notion of Good vs. Evil and depicting it more as a spectrum of selfish/selflessness. Of course, all the while there will be the persistent threat of the Cult of the Dragon (oh, and the dragon that they attack the city with will be somehow enslaved by the cult).
I'm also hoping to use some of the suggested bonds listed at the end of the module. I want maximum emotional investment and a ton of RP, because I don't think this group will necessarily want to keep playing if it's just hack and slash cult slaying. I really just want to make sure that after session 1, at least 75% of the party REALLY wants to play a session 2 and 3 and so on.
Am I going to far to try to get my players emotionally invested? Are ANY of these changes warranted? Based on your experience, do you anticipate that adding some or any of these will negatively affect the game? Do you think adding these will significantly improve the gameplay/the chances of players becoming invested? Any other random advice/tips/suggestions you can give to an aspiring DM?
I've played HotDQ on both sides of the DM screen - and have enjoyed it both playing and running it. But as a DM, it is a fairly freeform module, and is (sometimes frustratingly) light on details. As you run it, you'll probably get the vibe that this is as intended. It's an episodic framework, listing major plot events, locations, and people - but, as you've realised, leaving complex motivations up to you. There are glimpses of the emotion they're trying to elicit, but they definitely leave it up to you to draw out.
Run as it is out-of-the-box, it's a very generic adventure, but with a bit of work (as you've done), you can really make it come alive. To answer your question about whether you'll negatively affect the campaign, then no. I'd actually strongly encourage you to find whatever opportunities you can to add depth. My main criticism of the module is that it lacks imagination, or anything to inspire the DM.
But don't overthink it - your players will massively dictate the course of the adventure, and you should definitely let them. HotDQ is (sometimes annoyingly) completely off-the-rails in regards to giving specific motivations - but then (also annoyingly) completely on-rails with what gets players from A to B. Which means while there is a lot of scope for the campaign to go in many different directions from a motivational standpoint, you'll have to adapt and be creative to keep them on the main plot path - because the campaign doesn't really allow for any other direction.
The best idea is to bounce off and be inspired by are your players and their character personalities. There's very little point in emotionally challenging your players with the moral complexities of a slave-owner, if your players' characters are fine with slavery.
And players will naturally mess up your plans. When I ran it, for example, the players upon seeing the town being attacked by kobolds and a dragon, decided it best not to assist... but rather take what opportunities they could to make a quick GP. The 'escort the family' encounter didn't happen. The players actually ended up sneaking into the fort.
You're definitely thinking along the right lines though, just make sure you don't end up railroading your players into your pre-written ideas. Be prepared to flex or abandon them based on what your players do.
Hey Chequers! Thanks so much for the great advice! I'm glad to hear that I'm at least partly on the right track, and that other folks have had similar thoughts as me regarding HotDQ.
You make an amazing point about accidentally rail roading my players by pushing them into some half-cocked story I come up with. That would be awful! I'll definitely take your advice and let my players be the guide in regards to which emotional trigger points to expand on. Although, I sincerely hope the party isn't okay with slavery. Haha!
I have never DMed this module, so my advice is limited. But I would say that extra emotional motivation/manipulation is never a bad thing! Go with it, it sounds like it would make it far more interesting and launch the possibility of numerous other campaigns.
I have a very limited experience with HotDQ. I wanted to run it but real life happened and this group splitted. I ran about four chapters of it.
It's a good story but it's a bit of a railroad and, you're right, it's very lacking on the motivational/emotional/moral plan. Hoard is a collection of broad lines, half-fleshed characters and set main events. Feel free to add sub-plots and some flesh to the bones. When I ran it I made the mistake of playing it too much as is.
But don't overthink it. I too think you're head is in the right place, don't be afraid to add your grain of salt, let the dragon out of the box and you'll see after a couple of sessions if you have to steer or not.
Last advice: don't overdo it with emotional stuff. Emotions have to come out by themselves. You can't force your players to feel. Lead the dance, but let them learn the steps doing so.
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(Potential spoilers for Episode 1 of HotDQ)
Hey everyone! Quick summary on my experience: Never played DnD, never DMed, listened to every episode of Not Another DnD Podcast/dabbled in other play-through podcasts/watched all of Dimension 20. I have a VERY limited knowledge of the lore of the DnD universe (close to nothing about pantheons, dragons, geo-politics, etc.), but I'm confident in basic game mechanics.
That being said, I have a group of 6 people who want to play DnD. They have also never played before, and know exactly none of the rules. I decided the easiest thing to do to jump in would be to run through the Hoard of the Dragon Queen module. However, and this is in no way to bash the writers, I feel like the story as it is laid out is lacking the intrigue and emotional reactions that I've come to expect of a campaign (Brennan Lee Mulligan has broken me to the traditional Good vs. Evil dichotomy, I guess).
So, I was thinking about making a couple fairly small but potentially exponential changes to certain NPCs' character traits. The first would be that Castellan Escobert the Red is a classist. He gives an order to prevent the lower-class citizens from entering the keep during the initial attack on Greenest. Through an intimidation/persuasion check (or some other way), the party is able to get the commoners into the keep. This would set Governor Nighthill up as being only nominally a good guy. He will ultimately be someone who "looks out for the people" in so far as he keeps them mostly healthy and keeps them working (I'm going to say that Greenest is actually quite wealthy from agriculture, but Nighthill has established a type of insidious indentured servitude). I'll try to let this on in subtle ways, like in the Mill mission I'll have Nighthill initially declare that if the mill burns they'll lose all that potential for gold, then catch himself and state that more importantly the people will go hungry. We will later see (provided the party captures a prisoner for Nighthill and his guard to interrogate) that Nighthill is SERIOUSLY sadistic. Again, breaking this notion of Good vs. Evil and depicting it more as a spectrum of selfish/selflessness. Of course, all the while there will be the persistent threat of the Cult of the Dragon (oh, and the dragon that they attack the city with will be somehow enslaved by the cult).
I'm also hoping to use some of the suggested bonds listed at the end of the module. I want maximum emotional investment and a ton of RP, because I don't think this group will necessarily want to keep playing if it's just hack and slash cult slaying. I really just want to make sure that after session 1, at least 75% of the party REALLY wants to play a session 2 and 3 and so on.
Am I going to far to try to get my players emotionally invested? Are ANY of these changes warranted? Based on your experience, do you anticipate that adding some or any of these will negatively affect the game? Do you think adding these will significantly improve the gameplay/the chances of players becoming invested? Any other random advice/tips/suggestions you can give to an aspiring DM?
Thanks so much!
Welcome to the forum - and to D&D!
I've played HotDQ on both sides of the DM screen - and have enjoyed it both playing and running it. But as a DM, it is a fairly freeform module, and is (sometimes frustratingly) light on details. As you run it, you'll probably get the vibe that this is as intended. It's an episodic framework, listing major plot events, locations, and people - but, as you've realised, leaving complex motivations up to you. There are glimpses of the emotion they're trying to elicit, but they definitely leave it up to you to draw out.
Run as it is out-of-the-box, it's a very generic adventure, but with a bit of work (as you've done), you can really make it come alive. To answer your question about whether you'll negatively affect the campaign, then no. I'd actually strongly encourage you to find whatever opportunities you can to add depth. My main criticism of the module is that it lacks imagination, or anything to inspire the DM.
But don't overthink it - your players will massively dictate the course of the adventure, and you should definitely let them. HotDQ is (sometimes annoyingly) completely off-the-rails in regards to giving specific motivations - but then (also annoyingly) completely on-rails with what gets players from A to B. Which means while there is a lot of scope for the campaign to go in many different directions from a motivational standpoint, you'll have to adapt and be creative to keep them on the main plot path - because the campaign doesn't really allow for any other direction.
The best idea is to bounce off and be inspired by are your players and their character personalities. There's very little point in emotionally challenging your players with the moral complexities of a slave-owner, if your players' characters are fine with slavery.
And players will naturally mess up your plans. When I ran it, for example, the players upon seeing the town being attacked by kobolds and a dragon, decided it best not to assist... but rather take what opportunities they could to make a quick GP. The 'escort the family' encounter didn't happen. The players actually ended up sneaking into the fort.
You're definitely thinking along the right lines though, just make sure you don't end up railroading your players into your pre-written ideas. Be prepared to flex or abandon them based on what your players do.
Hey Chequers! Thanks so much for the great advice! I'm glad to hear that I'm at least partly on the right track, and that other folks have had similar thoughts as me regarding HotDQ.
You make an amazing point about accidentally rail roading my players by pushing them into some half-cocked story I come up with. That would be awful! I'll definitely take your advice and let my players be the guide in regards to which emotional trigger points to expand on. Although, I sincerely hope the party isn't okay with slavery. Haha!
Thanks again!
No worries - your head is definitely in the right place for running this, and I’m sure you’ll do a great job. I’d love to be a player at your table!
Let us know how it goes.
I have never DMed this module, so my advice is limited. But I would say that extra emotional motivation/manipulation is never a bad thing! Go with it, it sounds like it would make it far more interesting and launch the possibility of numerous other campaigns.
Hi!
I have a very limited experience with HotDQ. I wanted to run it but real life happened and this group splitted. I ran about four chapters of it.
It's a good story but it's a bit of a railroad and, you're right, it's very lacking on the motivational/emotional/moral plan. Hoard is a collection of broad lines, half-fleshed characters and set main events. Feel free to add sub-plots and some flesh to the bones. When I ran it I made the mistake of playing it too much as is.
But don't overthink it. I too think you're head is in the right place, don't be afraid to add your grain of salt, let the dragon out of the box and you'll see after a couple of sessions if you have to steer or not.
Last advice: don't overdo it with emotional stuff. Emotions have to come out by themselves. You can't force your players to feel. Lead the dance, but let them learn the steps doing so.