haha well you pretty much described the rogue archetype to a T.
it's how the character should be played. idk if you need to adjust much to it. i would also argue that having the rogue as a scout is working as a team. but lemme break it down.
1. this is not a problem, ie. why would they leave their teammates? this would lead to some distrust within the party if they egressed from battle. this is also a built in feature that allows the rogue to...be a rogue and helps avoid a TPK situation...I know this from experience.
2. this is a powerful effect but basically gloom stalker means that dark vision doesn't matter against the ranger. but "hidden" and "invisible" are two different things. invisibility makes you heavily obscured. hide is the action you take once you are heavily obscured to become completely undetected. also monsters aren't dumb, kiting should rarely ever work.
3. this actually has been a problem in my experience. it's fun to be the scout, but not fun for everyone else waiting. but it's almost always advantageous. the way i'd do it...and this is an experiment...i'd allow everyone else to take a break while rogue is scouting a large area. or...if you know your session will begin with a scouting mission...play it before the session with just you and the rogue.
4. i do like this approach but it shouldn't be for all ambush encounters. people have fun when their good stats benefit the team. but i can see how it will hinder ambushes.
i do feel that very few of those points are dividing the team, sometimes each role needs it's time to shine.
some suggestions...maybe if the scout takes too long...have a rare ambush on the team while he is away. ( this might get hairy to play out). if the scout/rogue tries to hide an ambush, make sure he takes the hide action, invisible doesn't mean hidden. also target the other players if he tries to kite. make him come back and try and help.
3. I feel that issue from the bottom of my heart. Sadly, there isn't really a way around it to my knowledge. The solution I prefer is to give the rogue some roughshod details about the location on the spot so they are happy and can "relay intel" to their comrades (everyone should have been listening) and then give them clues throughout the encounter that will help them. e.g. "When you were here earlier, you saw XY." "... overheard XY." "... sabotaged XY." When it's really critical to the encounter, you can just say "You didn't get here, as there were guards or spellwards or whatever."
I played a Hunter/Swashbuckler in CoS and it made my DM's life miserable.
I had superior mobility, I could deal some stupid high damage, and I excelled in social interactions as well as picking locks and hiding. My highest stat was a 16 dex, my lowest was a 12 int, and I didn't get an ASI until I was level 7, which is late into CoS unless you're being generous with the XP.
I almost solo'd a vampire spawn at level 3, disengage and grappling it into holy ground worked wonders. I wiped out 4 dire wolves by myself. In other combats the DM couldn't land a hit on me because of the Hit and Run tactics that I could use. If there was any distance between the enemy and the party, I could land significant damage with Hunter's Mark, Sharpshooter and Sneak Attack on the opening volley. Due to my perception and mobility, I could scout without being seen and thwart many surprises that the game had in store for us.
I'd wander off without telling the party all the time. It was a character quirk that I played out. However, when I finished what I was up to, I would always return and inform the party of what I'd learned. I would sneak into locations, scout buildings, climb rooftops, and all sorts of other sneaky rogue like things. The party would always berate me for not telling them what I was up to, but they couldn't deny the results. It made the DM frustrated because I'd foil surprises, ambushes, and other things we should have had to work to find.
So, yea, we're a pain in the arse for any DM, however it's not all sunshine and backstabs for us. I could not stand toe to toe with any creature, the few times I had to enter combat properly put me in a bad place. I got close to death on many occasions, the occasional bad roll, the creatures hitting me, the damage this module can put out, it's enough to one shot a character if you're unlucky. Strahd is smart, he'd inform his minions of the capabilities of his 'toys'. He'd push his 'toys' to their edge, constantly making them live in fear of death. This module is supposed to be a meat grinder and scary, if I were to give any advice I'd say take the gloves off.
Your group is working as a party. 'Working as a party', in D&D, means allowing each individual character to do what they excel at; in surprisingly few cases does the game actually encourage cooperation the way we think of it. If your party has a character which excels at solo action and low-light scouting/combat, trying to find ways to jack him over because he's doing what his character is good at isn't great.
The first question to ask yourself is this: is this player actually disrupting the fun at your table? You may feel like this guy's walking all over your campaign, but if the other players in the group are excited to watch a tense forward recon sequence and think this guy's a total badass they enjoy watching in action, then half your concerns disappear. if your players are annoyed and frustrated at this guy grandstanding all the time, then you have a problem, but it's one solved outside the game, not in it. Ask your scout to dial it back a little, point out that as cool as his character is and as well-built as he is for Strahd, the other players at the table are starting to feel superfluous.
Insofar as tips for hamstringing this character in particular? Remembering that specifically and frequently targeting one of your players is bad manners for any DM...get them in a dungeon. Tight quarters and confined spaces wreck any agile skirmisher's day, and if this guy has been making himself a menace to Strahd's minions, the good Baron would likely have started instructing said minions in how to deal with him. Bring light - lots of it. Remove his Gloom Walker dim-light advantage (which simultaneously allows your other party members to fight more effectively, giving them a chance to show off in front of the scout), and remember that some creatures hunt with senses other than sight.
Scent hounds could be used to track this character down, especially if he's been prolific in advance-reconning for the team and Strahd knows to tell his minions to watch for a sneaky ****. Dogs have ruined many a sneaky ****'s day in the past, and the corollary to being really good at solo action ahead of the main party is that when someone does catch you, you have a long way to run for help.
Heh, I recall when I was running a similar character and I got caught out by a couple of ettins after ranging a few hundred feet ahead of the party. The DM played it out as a chase scene, with my rogue having to be careful with his dashes or he'd end up winding himself (exhaustion ticks) and losing speed. The matter was complicated by the shadow sorcerer who thought he was a rogue too being along for the ride and having even less stamina than my character did. That chase scene was great, and the rest of the party not only got to ride to the rescue but also laugh their asses off at us sneaky-types getting busted and having to flee for our lives.
Remember - your scout player is doing exactly what his archetype says he should, and your party may not thank you for trying to deny them the benefits their highly competent scout is bringing them. Make sure the party is actually having trouble with this guy before doing anything, and otherwise?
Dogs are a DM's best friend.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please do not contact or message me.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
haha well you pretty much described the rogue archetype to a T.
it's how the character should be played. idk if you need to adjust much to it. i would also argue that having the rogue as a scout is working as a team. but lemme break it down.
1. this is not a problem, ie. why would they leave their teammates? this would lead to some distrust within the party if they egressed from battle. this is also a built in feature that allows the rogue to...be a rogue and helps avoid a TPK situation...I know this from experience.
2. this is a powerful effect but basically gloom stalker means that dark vision doesn't matter against the ranger. but "hidden" and "invisible" are two different things. invisibility makes you heavily obscured. hide is the action you take once you are heavily obscured to become completely undetected. also monsters aren't dumb, kiting should rarely ever work.
3. this actually has been a problem in my experience. it's fun to be the scout, but not fun for everyone else waiting. but it's almost always advantageous. the way i'd do it...and this is an experiment...i'd allow everyone else to take a break while rogue is scouting a large area. or...if you know your session will begin with a scouting mission...play it before the session with just you and the rogue.
4. i do like this approach but it shouldn't be for all ambush encounters. people have fun when their good stats benefit the team. but i can see how it will hinder ambushes.
i do feel that very few of those points are dividing the team, sometimes each role needs it's time to shine.
some suggestions...maybe if the scout takes too long...have a rare ambush on the team while he is away. ( this might get hairy to play out). if the scout/rogue tries to hide an ambush, make sure he takes the hide action, invisible doesn't mean hidden. also target the other players if he tries to kite. make him come back and try and help.
Scout returns to the party, "Well, good news... no bad guys out there at all! So...What happened here?"
3. I feel that issue from the bottom of my heart. Sadly, there isn't really a way around it to my knowledge. The solution I prefer is to give the rogue some roughshod details about the location on the spot so they are happy and can "relay intel" to their comrades (everyone should have been listening) and then give them clues throughout the encounter that will help them. e.g. "When you were here earlier, you saw XY." "... overheard XY." "... sabotaged XY." When it's really critical to the encounter, you can just say "You didn't get here, as there were guards or spellwards or whatever."
Let chaos rain... uh, reign!
I played a Hunter/Swashbuckler in CoS and it made my DM's life miserable.
I had superior mobility, I could deal some stupid high damage, and I excelled in social interactions as well as picking locks and hiding. My highest stat was a 16 dex, my lowest was a 12 int, and I didn't get an ASI until I was level 7, which is late into CoS unless you're being generous with the XP.
I almost solo'd a vampire spawn at level 3, disengage and grappling it into holy ground worked wonders. I wiped out 4 dire wolves by myself. In other combats the DM couldn't land a hit on me because of the Hit and Run tactics that I could use. If there was any distance between the enemy and the party, I could land significant damage with Hunter's Mark, Sharpshooter and Sneak Attack on the opening volley. Due to my perception and mobility, I could scout without being seen and thwart many surprises that the game had in store for us.
I'd wander off without telling the party all the time. It was a character quirk that I played out. However, when I finished what I was up to, I would always return and inform the party of what I'd learned. I would sneak into locations, scout buildings, climb rooftops, and all sorts of other sneaky rogue like things. The party would always berate me for not telling them what I was up to, but they couldn't deny the results. It made the DM frustrated because I'd foil surprises, ambushes, and other things we should have had to work to find.
So, yea, we're a pain in the arse for any DM, however it's not all sunshine and backstabs for us. I could not stand toe to toe with any creature, the few times I had to enter combat properly put me in a bad place. I got close to death on many occasions, the occasional bad roll, the creatures hitting me, the damage this module can put out, it's enough to one shot a character if you're unlucky. Strahd is smart, he'd inform his minions of the capabilities of his 'toys'. He'd push his 'toys' to their edge, constantly making them live in fear of death. This module is supposed to be a meat grinder and scary, if I were to give any advice I'd say take the gloves off.
Your group is working as a party. 'Working as a party', in D&D, means allowing each individual character to do what they excel at; in surprisingly few cases does the game actually encourage cooperation the way we think of it. If your party has a character which excels at solo action and low-light scouting/combat, trying to find ways to jack him over because he's doing what his character is good at isn't great.
The first question to ask yourself is this: is this player actually disrupting the fun at your table? You may feel like this guy's walking all over your campaign, but if the other players in the group are excited to watch a tense forward recon sequence and think this guy's a total badass they enjoy watching in action, then half your concerns disappear. if your players are annoyed and frustrated at this guy grandstanding all the time, then you have a problem, but it's one solved outside the game, not in it. Ask your scout to dial it back a little, point out that as cool as his character is and as well-built as he is for Strahd, the other players at the table are starting to feel superfluous.
Insofar as tips for hamstringing this character in particular? Remembering that specifically and frequently targeting one of your players is bad manners for any DM...get them in a dungeon. Tight quarters and confined spaces wreck any agile skirmisher's day, and if this guy has been making himself a menace to Strahd's minions, the good Baron would likely have started instructing said minions in how to deal with him. Bring light - lots of it. Remove his Gloom Walker dim-light advantage (which simultaneously allows your other party members to fight more effectively, giving them a chance to show off in front of the scout), and remember that some creatures hunt with senses other than sight.
Scent hounds could be used to track this character down, especially if he's been prolific in advance-reconning for the team and Strahd knows to tell his minions to watch for a sneaky ****. Dogs have ruined many a sneaky ****'s day in the past, and the corollary to being really good at solo action ahead of the main party is that when someone does catch you, you have a long way to run for help.
Heh, I recall when I was running a similar character and I got caught out by a couple of ettins after ranging a few hundred feet ahead of the party. The DM played it out as a chase scene, with my rogue having to be careful with his dashes or he'd end up winding himself (exhaustion ticks) and losing speed. The matter was complicated by the shadow sorcerer who thought he was a rogue too being along for the ride and having even less stamina than my character did. That chase scene was great, and the rest of the party not only got to ride to the rescue but also laugh their asses off at us sneaky-types getting busted and having to flee for our lives.
Remember - your scout player is doing exactly what his archetype says he should, and your party may not thank you for trying to deny them the benefits their highly competent scout is bringing them. Make sure the party is actually having trouble with this guy before doing anything, and otherwise?
Dogs are a DM's best friend.
Please do not contact or message me.