Working on homebrewing my own dungeon as part of a project for the dm's guild that I'm toying with in my free time. I'm finding that the lackeys that make sense are too weak for the tier of play (because of reasons they're in tier 3 play if you're using these dungeons for your players). Question for those of you who regularly homebrew your own dungeons is to ask whether you just go with the lackeys that make sense regardless of how weak or strong that makes them compared to the BBEG or the dungeon itself or if you homebrew up better stat blocks for the lackeys?
I use lackeys in a few different ways. The first is the easiest, lackeys are just there to soak up some damage that would ordinarily go to the BBEG and potent enough that ignoring them is dangerous. The second way is more interesting, I have lackeys that perform a vital function for the BBEG encounter. Maybe a Lich has a couple of enhanced Shield Guardian/Golems and a cadre of necromancers in his Throne Room/Prepare to Face DEATH room. The necromancers are not there to directly attack the PCs or suffer hits from them; instead they are using DM LEVEL ARCANE SECRET MAGIC to supplement the Lich. A group of 4 of them might be supporting the Lich's Concentration Spells, or using Negative Energy Healing bursts to keep the Lich going, all the while protected behind an "invisible" or "glassteeled" wall. Other lackeys might be in charge of creating harmful ongoing environmental effects- spike growth and black tentacle spells are great for this. Lackeys are best when they are doing something interesting.
What monsters are you having problems with? Most things have a higher CR analog if you do some digging, and failing that, there is nothing stopping you from just finding a higher CR monster that fits what you want it to do and re-skinning it as the sort of monster you want it to be.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
My BBEG is head of a thieves' guild. I'm trying to balance the dungeon for 12th level players. But he's a very untrusting person so it doesn't make a lot of sense for his dungeon to be populated by a lot of assassins and master thieves (CR 8 & CR 5, respectively). I've got a random encounter table that is populated with assassins, blackguards, master thieves, bandits, and then a random air elemental (the BBEG has something that keeps resummoning air elementals to the dungeon as expendable guards/things to foil intruders but those are way low CR). I'm struggling with how to have his citadel guarded while also him being super not trusting and am debating use existing monsters or homebrew my own that make more sense.
I use lackeys in a few different ways. The first is the easiest, lackeys are just there to soak up some damage that would ordinarily go to the BBEG and potent enough that ignoring them is dangerous. The second way is more interesting, I have lackeys that perform a vital function for the BBEG encounter. Maybe a Lich has a couple of enhanced Shield Guardian/Golems and a cadre of necromancers in his Throne Room/Prepare to Face DEATH room. The necromancers are not there to directly attack the PCs or suffer hits from them; instead they are using DM LEVEL ARCANE SECRET MAGIC to supplement the Lich. A group of 4 of them might be supporting the Lich's Concentration Spells, or using Negative Energy Healing bursts to keep the Lich going, all the while protected behind an "invisible" or "glassteeled" wall. Other lackeys might be in charge of creating harmful ongoing environmental effects- spike growth and black tentacle spells are great for this. Lackeys are best when they are doing something interesting.
I like this idea, of having the lackeys with specific support roles. So would you just find NPC stat blocks that have what you want their role to be, reskin the stat block to have it, or just create from scratch so everything makes sense for the figure?
My BBEG is head of a thieves' guild. I'm trying to balance the dungeon for 12th level players. But he's a very untrusting person so it doesn't make a lot of sense for his dungeon to be populated by a lot of assassins and master thieves (CR 8 & CR 5, respectively). I've got a random encounter table that is populated with assassins, blackguards, master thieves, bandits, and then a random air elemental (the BBEG has something that keeps resummoning air elementals to the dungeon as expendable guards/things to foil intruders but those are way low CR). I'm struggling with how to have his citadel guarded while also him being super not trusting and am debating use existing monsters or homebrew my own that make more sense.
Alright, a canon monster -The Beholder is a paranoid xenophobic narcissistic evil aberration. Yet, they collect minions and lackeys. They don't *trust* their lackeys and have multiple levels of control in place because the Beholder knows they *will* betray it, and had anticipated at least a thousand ways each lackey might do so. Regardless, even though they know they will be betrayed they collect the minions because minions possess useful talents. But, don't say a Beholder needs the minion...Beholders do not need anyone! ;D
Long way of saying, yes this untrusting soul can still have people around him, he will just have plans to kill them. Additionally, he could have more traps and such in his area so that no one could reach him in his hidey-hole.
Depends on what you have access to. I think it would be fine for him to have "lieutenants" that maybe use Shadow Dancer stats, or maybe he has one trusted ally that uses the Half-Green Dragon Assassin stat block. Other than that, you could very easily make the rest of the mobs use a mix of Bandit Captain, Berserker, and Illusionist stat blocks and it would be more than enough to properly tax the resources of a level 12 party.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
I use lackeys in a few different ways. The first is the easiest, lackeys are just there to soak up some damage that would ordinarily go to the BBEG and potent enough that ignoring them is dangerous. The second way is more interesting, I have lackeys that perform a vital function for the BBEG encounter. Maybe a Lich has a couple of enhanced Shield Guardian/Golems and a cadre of necromancers in his Throne Room/Prepare to Face DEATH room. The necromancers are not there to directly attack the PCs or suffer hits from them; instead they are using DM LEVEL ARCANE SECRET MAGIC to supplement the Lich. A group of 4 of them might be supporting the Lich's Concentration Spells, or using Negative Energy Healing bursts to keep the Lich going, all the while protected behind an "invisible" or "glassteeled" wall. Other lackeys might be in charge of creating harmful ongoing environmental effects- spike growth and black tentacle spells are great for this. Lackeys are best when they are doing something interesting.
I like this idea, of having the lackeys with specific support roles. So would you just find NPC stat blocks that have what you want their role to be, reskin the stat block to have it, or just create from scratch so everything makes sense for the figure?
I use lackeys in a few different ways. The first is the easiest, lackeys are just there to soak up some damage that would ordinarily go to the BBEG and potent enough that ignoring them is dangerous. The second way is more interesting, I have lackeys that perform a vital function for the BBEG encounter. Maybe a Lich has a couple of enhanced Shield Guardian/Golems and a cadre of necromancers in his Throne Room/Prepare to Face DEATH room. The necromancers are not there to directly attack the PCs or suffer hits from them; instead they are using DM LEVEL ARCANE SECRET MAGIC to supplement the Lich. A group of 4 of them might be supporting the Lich's Concentration Spells, or using Negative Energy Healing bursts to keep the Lich going, all the while protected behind an "invisible" or "glassteeled" wall. Other lackeys might be in charge of creating harmful ongoing environmental effects- spike growth and black tentacle spells are great for this. Lackeys are best when they are doing something interesting.
I like this idea, of having the lackeys with specific support roles. So would you just find NPC stat blocks that have what you want their role to be, reskin the stat block to have it, or just create from scratch so everything makes sense for the figure?
Minimal Stat Blocking. Also remember that the stuff in the PHB is for players, and that you as the DMG are not restricted to it. For instance, there is no class or subclass that acts like a Drow ShadowBlade (Bonus Action Teleport), but you can do it because you are building a challenge for the PCs. Remember that most mobs have a life expectancy of 2-3 rounds, don't go overboard on them. Just give them enough things to do, or interesting mechanics to make their inclusion worth the effort.
Depends on what you have access to. I think it would be fine for him to have "lieutenants" that maybe use Shadow Dancer stats, or maybe he has one trusted ally that uses the Half-Green Dragon Assassin stat block. Other than that, you could very easily make the rest of the mobs use a mix of Bandit Captain, Berserker, and Illusionist stat blocks and it would be more than enough to properly tax the resources of a level 12 party.
I do have bandits and bandit captains on the random encounter table and he has 2 berserkers at his side per my BBEG fight I plugged into the encounter builder (which is a deadly encounter so that's good). Sounds like my instincts may have been on the right track after all.
My BBEG is head of a thieves' guild. I'm trying to balance the dungeon for 12th level players. But he's a very untrusting person so it doesn't make a lot of sense for his dungeon to be populated by a lot of assassins and master thieves (CR 8 & CR 5, respectively). I've got a random encounter table that is populated with assassins, blackguards, master thieves, bandits, and then a random air elemental (the BBEG has something that keeps resummoning air elementals to the dungeon as expendable guards/things to foil intruders but those are way low CR). I'm struggling with how to have his citadel guarded while also him being super not trusting and am debating use existing monsters or homebrew my own that make more sense.
Alright, a canon monster -The Beholder is a paranoid xenophobic narcissistic evil aberration. Yet, they collect minions and lackeys. They don't *trust* their lackeys and have multiple levels of control in place because the Beholder knows they *will* betray it, and had anticipated at least a thousand ways each lackey might do so. Regardless, even though they know they will be betrayed they collect the minions because minions possess useful talents. But, don't say a Beholder needs the minion...Beholders do not need anyone! ;D
Long way of saying, yes this untrusting soul can still have people around him, he will just have plans to kill them. Additionally, he could have more traps and such in his area so that no one could reach him in his hidey-hole.
I do have plans to make a pass through the dungeon to lay more traps because I definitely need more traps. And you just gave me an idea for something that would never make it into the published dungeon but is great for the BBEG's backstory.
Basically, all you need the "Citadel guards" to do is eat player resources. Moderately high HP CR 2&3 monsters that can soak up things like spell-caster AoE spells, or make Barbarians use their Rages or get Druids to use up their animal forms are key dungeon fodder. They likely won't threaten the party in a meaningful way, but they will live long enough to soften up the party before a big set-piece fight. This goes extra well if there is a mini-boss of sorts as well that can actually threaten the party if not dealt with in a serious manner.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Basically, all you need the "Citadel guards" to do is eat player resources. Moderately high HP CR 2&3 monsters that can soak up things like spell-caster AoE spells, or make Barbarians use their Rages or get Druids to use up their animal forms are key dungeon fodder. They likely won't threaten the party in a meaningful way, but they will live long enough to soften up the party before a big set-piece fight. This goes extra well if there is a mini-boss of sorts as well that can actually threaten the party if not dealt with in a serious manner.
I have a few of those kinds of things. Mimics, armored knights, an animated stove because why not, a trap that summons 2 efreeti and some mephits, an iron golem, a trap that triggers a disintegrate spell. (That might be a bit much. This is still a work in progress. It's my first ever dungeon from scratch.) Plus the BBEG has legendary actions and lair actions. Basically every room but a couple are death traps. I may have used the random dungeon builder in the DMG a little liberally.
Working on homebrewing my own dungeon as part of a project for the dm's guild that I'm toying with in my free time. I'm finding that the lackeys that make sense are too weak for the tier of play (because of reasons they're in tier 3 play if you're using these dungeons for your players). Question for those of you who regularly homebrew your own dungeons is to ask whether you just go with the lackeys that make sense regardless of how weak or strong that makes them compared to the BBEG or the dungeon itself or if you homebrew up better stat blocks for the lackeys?
My Homebrew Backgrounds | Feats | Magic Items | Monsters | Races | Subclasses
I use lackeys in a few different ways. The first is the easiest, lackeys are just there to soak up some damage that would ordinarily go to the BBEG and potent enough that ignoring them is dangerous. The second way is more interesting, I have lackeys that perform a vital function for the BBEG encounter. Maybe a Lich has a couple of enhanced Shield Guardian/Golems and a cadre of necromancers in his Throne Room/Prepare to Face DEATH room. The necromancers are not there to directly attack the PCs or suffer hits from them; instead they are using DM LEVEL ARCANE SECRET MAGIC to supplement the Lich. A group of 4 of them might be supporting the Lich's Concentration Spells, or using Negative Energy Healing bursts to keep the Lich going, all the while protected behind an "invisible" or "glassteeled" wall. Other lackeys might be in charge of creating harmful ongoing environmental effects- spike growth and black tentacle spells are great for this. Lackeys are best when they are doing something interesting.
What monsters are you having problems with? Most things have a higher CR analog if you do some digging, and failing that, there is nothing stopping you from just finding a higher CR monster that fits what you want it to do and re-skinning it as the sort of monster you want it to be.
My BBEG is head of a thieves' guild. I'm trying to balance the dungeon for 12th level players. But he's a very untrusting person so it doesn't make a lot of sense for his dungeon to be populated by a lot of assassins and master thieves (CR 8 & CR 5, respectively). I've got a random encounter table that is populated with assassins, blackguards, master thieves, bandits, and then a random air elemental (the BBEG has something that keeps resummoning air elementals to the dungeon as expendable guards/things to foil intruders but those are way low CR). I'm struggling with how to have his citadel guarded while also him being super not trusting and am debating use existing monsters or homebrew my own that make more sense.
My Homebrew Backgrounds | Feats | Magic Items | Monsters | Races | Subclasses
I like this idea, of having the lackeys with specific support roles. So would you just find NPC stat blocks that have what you want their role to be, reskin the stat block to have it, or just create from scratch so everything makes sense for the figure?
My Homebrew Backgrounds | Feats | Magic Items | Monsters | Races | Subclasses
I'm probably biting off more than I can chew being so new to DMing/D&D but I like the creative exercise.
My Homebrew Backgrounds | Feats | Magic Items | Monsters | Races | Subclasses
Alright, a canon monster -The Beholder is a paranoid xenophobic narcissistic evil aberration. Yet, they collect minions and lackeys. They don't *trust* their lackeys and have multiple levels of control in place because the Beholder knows they *will* betray it, and had anticipated at least a thousand ways each lackey might do so. Regardless, even though they know they will be betrayed they collect the minions because minions possess useful talents. But, don't say a Beholder needs the minion...Beholders do not need anyone! ;D
Long way of saying, yes this untrusting soul can still have people around him, he will just have plans to kill them. Additionally, he could have more traps and such in his area so that no one could reach him in his hidey-hole.
Depends on what you have access to. I think it would be fine for him to have "lieutenants" that maybe use Shadow Dancer stats, or maybe he has one trusted ally that uses the Half-Green Dragon Assassin stat block. Other than that, you could very easily make the rest of the mobs use a mix of Bandit Captain, Berserker, and Illusionist stat blocks and it would be more than enough to properly tax the resources of a level 12 party.
Minimal Stat Blocking. Also remember that the stuff in the PHB is for players, and that you as the DMG are not restricted to it. For instance, there is no class or subclass that acts like a Drow ShadowBlade (Bonus Action Teleport), but you can do it because you are building a challenge for the PCs. Remember that most mobs have a life expectancy of 2-3 rounds, don't go overboard on them. Just give them enough things to do, or interesting mechanics to make their inclusion worth the effort.
I do have bandits and bandit captains on the random encounter table and he has 2 berserkers at his side per my BBEG fight I plugged into the encounter builder (which is a deadly encounter so that's good). Sounds like my instincts may have been on the right track after all.
My Homebrew Backgrounds | Feats | Magic Items | Monsters | Races | Subclasses
I do have plans to make a pass through the dungeon to lay more traps because I definitely need more traps. And you just gave me an idea for something that would never make it into the published dungeon but is great for the BBEG's backstory.
My Homebrew Backgrounds | Feats | Magic Items | Monsters | Races | Subclasses
Thanks, guys.
My Homebrew Backgrounds | Feats | Magic Items | Monsters | Races | Subclasses
Basically, all you need the "Citadel guards" to do is eat player resources. Moderately high HP CR 2&3 monsters that can soak up things like spell-caster AoE spells, or make Barbarians use their Rages or get Druids to use up their animal forms are key dungeon fodder. They likely won't threaten the party in a meaningful way, but they will live long enough to soften up the party before a big set-piece fight. This goes extra well if there is a mini-boss of sorts as well that can actually threaten the party if not dealt with in a serious manner.
I have a few of those kinds of things. Mimics, armored knights, an animated stove because why not, a trap that summons 2 efreeti and some mephits, an iron golem, a trap that triggers a disintegrate spell. (That might be a bit much. This is still a work in progress. It's my first ever dungeon from scratch.) Plus the BBEG has legendary actions and lair actions. Basically every room but a couple are death traps. I may have used the random dungeon builder in the DMG a little liberally.
My Homebrew Backgrounds | Feats | Magic Items | Monsters | Races | Subclasses