in my current campaign of Phandelver and Below I’ve made a Great Old One Warlock’s patron the BBEG. He plays him power hungry and takes more questionable actions for him lingering with evil.
!!!SPOILER!!! Do not read if you want to play this adventure!
They’ve come to capture Glasstaff in chapter 3 in Cragmaw Castle. Instead of gagging him to no longer be able to use verbals for spellcasting, he cut off his tongue after he surrendered himself. He was tied up aswell. Next session they want to trial him in Phandalin and the party cleric gave up his reward to let Sister Garaele and the brothers Havnar perform a Regeneration (7th level spell). However the night before the trial I want to set up a moment for the warlock to give Glasstaff to the Goblins and take him to one of the mindflayers. This would of course be told to give the warlock more power in return, but would be considered an evil act.
I will put in some treshholds to see if he gets passed his party members quietly and able to free Glasstaff unseen. If not, it are his consequences. (Intervention, Sildar putting him under arrest, clear surveillance on him from a party member)
However, what if he truly gives in? What if he is becoming evil unnoticed? Should there be signs visible on him if he succumbs to the evil mind flayer god Ilvaash?
"Time, like hope, is an illusion" - Lumalee "Time is relative" - Albert Einstein "It's a joke. It's all a joke. Mother forgive me" - Edward 'The Comedian' Blake "Do I look like the kind of clown that can start a movement?" - Arthur Fleck
I personally don't like playing a game with evil PCs. If the player wants this character to be evil, I would gently suggest they find a new character, and have their current character fade into the background or become a villain. But that's me. At the very least I'd give them plenty of warning before ripping away their character.
Fact is, your player has already committed a pretty despicable act that another player had to make sacrifices to rectify, so I would have a conversation with them sooner rather than later.
I personally don't like playing a game with evil PCs. If the player wants this character to be evil, I would gently suggest they find a new character, and have their current character fade into the background or become a villain. But that's me. At the very least I'd give them plenty of warning before ripping away their character.
Fact is, your player has already committed a pretty despicable act that another player had to make sacrifices to rectify, so I would have a conversation with them sooner rather than later.
I rather have a more RP logic event. Besides the player has no bad intentions on the table, this is just happening atm. No toxic plays or whatever, just very chaotic. Once he does make choices to succumb to evil, he becomes into the control of me, the DM. Which would fit in the brainwash of Ilvaash.
He is a tiefling and the story goes that one of the brothers of a Fey Eladrin player has been eaten X years ago by a hag. Out of this the player has been born and there have been efforts to cleanse the child by the old group of Daran Edermath the Order of the Gauntlet. It resulted in a Tiefling with white eyes, with the curiousity of the other players brother and power hunger of the hag. Player in question doesn't know he is born out of a hag. He only knows that his parents found him in the woods. He btw killed them on accident when he was trying to control his powers (and his first commitment to Ilvaash).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Time, like hope, is an illusion" - Lumalee "Time is relative" - Albert Einstein "It's a joke. It's all a joke. Mother forgive me" - Edward 'The Comedian' Blake "Do I look like the kind of clown that can start a movement?" - Arthur Fleck
However, what if he truly gives in? What if he is becoming evil unnoticed? Should there be signs visible on him if he succumbs to the evil mind flayer god Ilvaash?
Thanks in advance :)
Should it be visible? Yes, in the actions the character takes—deed, not thought. What the others see and experience should make it clear (e.g., the warlock doing evil things).
I have a character in my game who's doing a version of this: a slow slide into evil that leads to the character becoming an NPC. The player behind the character came to me with the concept after session zero, and it's something in the visible meta of us all talking about the game as friends. There are no evil surprises that hurt play.
We are using a quick and dirty version of "Humanity" as an ability score, ala the Vampire RPG books. If/when the character's humanity goes too low, they become an NPC. We are using the character's willingness to commit dark deeds for power as a means of slowly leaking out more lore about the BBEG, and it's enabling my storytelling as a DM—not breaking it.
If you can manage something similar that contributes to the overall game and fun without stepping on anyone else at the table, it should work.
We are using a quick and dirty version of "Humanity" as an ability score, ala the Vampire RPG books. If/when the character's humanity goes too low, they become an NPC. We are using the character's willingness to commit dark deeds for power as a means of slowly leaking out more lore about the BBEG, and it's enabling my storytelling as a DM—not breaking it.
If you can manage something similar that contributes to the overall game and fun without stepping on anyone else at the table, it should work.
Oh this is a very nice idea. How does it look like?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Time, like hope, is an illusion" - Lumalee "Time is relative" - Albert Einstein "It's a joke. It's all a joke. Mother forgive me" - Edward 'The Comedian' Blake "Do I look like the kind of clown that can start a movement?" - Arthur Fleck
We are using a quick and dirty version of "Humanity" as an ability score, ala the Vampire RPG books. If/when the character's humanity goes too low, they become an NPC. We are using the character's willingness to commit dark deeds for power as a means of slowly leaking out more lore about the BBEG, and it's enabling my storytelling as a DM—not breaking it.
If you can manage something similar that contributes to the overall game and fun without stepping on anyone else at the table, it should work.
Oh this is a very nice idea. How does it look like?
We are treating it like an Ability Score in the most literal sense. The player rolled 4d6 and kept the highest three numbers to generate the "humanity" Ability Score.
Now, whenever they give in to a truly dark and vile urge (and the BBEG is in their head, so it's happening), they make a Humanity check against the DC I set as DM. Success? They can skip on doing the bad thing. Fail? They do bad things and lose a point of humanity. When that Ability Score hits zero, they are an NPC from that moment forward.
I enjoy using existing D&D mechanics and systems for odd paths like this. The simpler, the better.
Sanity Players sanity scores are provided by adding up Intellect + Wisdom + Charisma. Different things in backstory or during the adventure are lowering the total score:
Minus 3 points: - Learning an Evil language (Infernal, Abyssal) - Learning an Alien language (Deep Speech) - Learning a Good language (Celestial)
Minus 5 points: - Learning knowledge or forbidden lore - Exposure to events outside one's understanding
Minus 10 points: - Witnessing death of a loved one - Experiencing great personal pain or loss - Witnessing cannibalism
Minus 15 points: - Torture another being - Unnecessary overkill - Cutting limbs or other body parts - Experiencing death and resurrection
Minus 20 points: - Cannibalism - Murder of plain citizens
There are certain tresholds that will feature the Far Realm influence table of the adventure PaBtSO. When a PC gets to the following numbers after an event: 20 - Visual or Audible Far Realm happenings 15 - Body altering 10 - Cravings or weird sensory happenings 05 - Warping reality within 30ft 00 - Nonfunctional (PC becomes an NPC)
Healing sanity (if a score resets it takes the Int+Wis+Cha minus backstory/language point reductions): - Reset at level up - Reset with Greater Restoration spell - Reset with any 7th level or higher healing spell - 1 point recovery per Long Rest, Wis save DC 13 - 1 point recovery per day off, no save - 1 extra point when bard is playing/lighting the mood during long rests or day off - 1 point per Lesser Restoration per Short Rest - 1 or xx points per positive interaction or relationships - xx points for guidance and therapy at local temple/cleric/whoever is there
"Time, like hope, is an illusion" - Lumalee "Time is relative" - Albert Einstein "It's a joke. It's all a joke. Mother forgive me" - Edward 'The Comedian' Blake "Do I look like the kind of clown that can start a movement?" - Arthur Fleck
If you find you want to really dig into the sanity and madness rules I strongly suggest looking at Petersen Game's 5e Cthulu Mythos book. It's a LOT of info.
Hey all,
in my current campaign of Phandelver and Below I’ve made a Great Old One Warlock’s patron the BBEG. He plays him power hungry and takes more questionable actions for him lingering with evil.
!!!SPOILER!!! Do not read if you want to play this adventure!
They’ve come to capture Glasstaff in chapter 3 in Cragmaw Castle. Instead of gagging him to no longer be able to use verbals for spellcasting, he cut off his tongue after he surrendered himself. He was tied up aswell.
Next session they want to trial him in Phandalin and the party cleric gave up his reward to let Sister Garaele and the brothers Havnar perform a Regeneration (7th level spell). However the night before the trial I want to set up a moment for the warlock to give Glasstaff to the Goblins and take him to one of the mindflayers. This would of course be told to give the warlock more power in return, but would be considered an evil act.
I will put in some treshholds to see if he gets passed his party members quietly and able to free Glasstaff unseen. If not, it are his consequences. (Intervention, Sildar putting him under arrest, clear surveillance on him from a party member)
However, what if he truly gives in? What if he is becoming evil unnoticed? Should there be signs visible on him if he succumbs to the evil mind flayer god Ilvaash?
Thanks in advance :)
"Time, like hope, is an illusion" - Lumalee
"Time is relative" - Albert Einstein
"It's a joke. It's all a joke. Mother forgive me" - Edward 'The Comedian' Blake
"Do I look like the kind of clown that can start a movement?" - Arthur Fleck
I personally don't like playing a game with evil PCs. If the player wants this character to be evil, I would gently suggest they find a new character, and have their current character fade into the background or become a villain. But that's me. At the very least I'd give them plenty of warning before ripping away their character.
Fact is, your player has already committed a pretty despicable act that another player had to make sacrifices to rectify, so I would have a conversation with them sooner rather than later.
I rather have a more RP logic event. Besides the player has no bad intentions on the table, this is just happening atm. No toxic plays or whatever, just very chaotic.
Once he does make choices to succumb to evil, he becomes into the control of me, the DM. Which would fit in the brainwash of Ilvaash.
He is a tiefling and the story goes that one of the brothers of a Fey Eladrin player has been eaten X years ago by a hag. Out of this the player has been born and there have been efforts to cleanse the child by the old group of Daran Edermath the Order of the Gauntlet. It resulted in a Tiefling with white eyes, with the curiousity of the other players brother and power hunger of the hag. Player in question doesn't know he is born out of a hag. He only knows that his parents found him in the woods. He btw killed them on accident when he was trying to control his powers (and his first commitment to Ilvaash).
"Time, like hope, is an illusion" - Lumalee
"Time is relative" - Albert Einstein
"It's a joke. It's all a joke. Mother forgive me" - Edward 'The Comedian' Blake
"Do I look like the kind of clown that can start a movement?" - Arthur Fleck
Should it be visible? Yes, in the actions the character takes—deed, not thought. What the others see and experience should make it clear (e.g., the warlock doing evil things).
I have a character in my game who's doing a version of this: a slow slide into evil that leads to the character becoming an NPC. The player behind the character came to me with the concept after session zero, and it's something in the visible meta of us all talking about the game as friends. There are no evil surprises that hurt play.
We are using a quick and dirty version of "Humanity" as an ability score, ala the Vampire RPG books. If/when the character's humanity goes too low, they become an NPC. We are using the character's willingness to commit dark deeds for power as a means of slowly leaking out more lore about the BBEG, and it's enabling my storytelling as a DM—not breaking it.
If you can manage something similar that contributes to the overall game and fun without stepping on anyone else at the table, it should work.
Oh this is a very nice idea. How does it look like?
"Time, like hope, is an illusion" - Lumalee
"Time is relative" - Albert Einstein
"It's a joke. It's all a joke. Mother forgive me" - Edward 'The Comedian' Blake
"Do I look like the kind of clown that can start a movement?" - Arthur Fleck
We are treating it like an Ability Score in the most literal sense. The player rolled 4d6 and kept the highest three numbers to generate the "humanity" Ability Score.
Now, whenever they give in to a truly dark and vile urge (and the BBEG is in their head, so it's happening), they make a Humanity check against the DC I set as DM. Success? They can skip on doing the bad thing. Fail? They do bad things and lose a point of humanity. When that Ability Score hits zero, they are an NPC from that moment forward.
I enjoy using existing D&D mechanics and systems for odd paths like this. The simpler, the better.
You gave me some great ideas and found some decent reddit posts aswell.
I took most of this https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDBehindTheScreen/comments/ia5vpr/5e_stress_sanity_rules/
Sanity
Players sanity scores are provided by adding up Intellect + Wisdom + Charisma.
Different things in backstory or during the adventure are lowering the total score:
Minus 3 points:
- Learning an Evil language (Infernal, Abyssal)
- Learning an Alien language (Deep Speech)
- Learning a Good language (Celestial)
Minus 5 points:
- Learning knowledge or forbidden lore
- Exposure to events outside one's understanding
Minus 10 points:
- Witnessing death of a loved one
- Experiencing great personal pain or loss
- Witnessing cannibalism
Minus 15 points:
- Torture another being
- Unnecessary overkill
- Cutting limbs or other body parts
- Experiencing death and resurrection
Minus 20 points:
- Cannibalism
- Murder of plain citizens
There are certain tresholds that will feature the Far Realm influence table of the adventure PaBtSO.
When a PC gets to the following numbers after an event:
20 - Visual or Audible Far Realm happenings
15 - Body altering
10 - Cravings or weird sensory happenings
05 - Warping reality within 30ft
00 - Nonfunctional (PC becomes an NPC)
Healing sanity (if a score resets it takes the Int+Wis+Cha minus backstory/language point reductions):
- Reset at level up
- Reset with Greater Restoration spell
- Reset with any 7th level or higher healing spell
- 1 point recovery per Long Rest, Wis save DC 13
- 1 point recovery per day off, no save
- 1 extra point when bard is playing/lighting the mood during long rests or day off
- 1 point per Lesser Restoration per Short Rest
- 1 or xx points per positive interaction or relationships
- xx points for guidance and therapy at local temple/cleric/whoever is there
"Time, like hope, is an illusion" - Lumalee
"Time is relative" - Albert Einstein
"It's a joke. It's all a joke. Mother forgive me" - Edward 'The Comedian' Blake
"Do I look like the kind of clown that can start a movement?" - Arthur Fleck
That's a fun list!
If you find you want to really dig into the sanity and madness rules I strongly suggest looking at Petersen Game's 5e Cthulu Mythos book. It's a LOT of info.
https://petersengames.com/the-games-shop/cthulhu-mythos-for-5e/