I'm running the starter set and my group has set out for Thundertree, where they are supposed to fight a Young Green Dragon (CR8) and bring it to half health to chase it off. However, they've only just reached level 3 and its dragon breath alone could probably wipe them. How do I get a CR appropriate dragon, beef up a Green Dragon Wyrmling (CR2) and have them kill it, or downgrade the YGD so it's CR6? And what would be the best way to adjust the CR?
If you're that worried. You can always lower the amount of dice rolled for damage. Instead of the 12d6 lower it to a more appropriate number. Look at the HP of your characters. If a Dragon breath can do, on average, 75% of their max HP it's fine. It is supposed to scare them shitless. As for the 5-6 recharge. Could turn it to a 6 only. And even then fudge it if you roll really well that session.
I don't think you need to lower the CR because the players don't have to fight it. They should probably figure out that the dragon is too tough for them and leave it be, or if they need something from it try to get it with noncombat means. In the first group I played LMOP in we didn't fight it. I've definitely heard other groups on the forums discuss having done that.
In my opinion, the purpose of the Dragon in Thundertree is to give DMs an intro into setting the power level and deadliness of their games.
If you downgrade the dragon and make it easy, then your players will begin expecting to be able to defeat anything you throw at them. That's a fine perspective -IF- that is how you want to run your game.
If you leave the dragon as is and play it intelligently, he can easily destroy most parties. That establishes to the players that they may need to avoid certain situations or defuse them.
The encounter gives you as the DM an opportunity to create a longer term villain (if the dragon flees and wants revenge -- or if the dragon kills a party member or two and they later want revenge). It's all up to how you want to setup your world and events in it.
Additionally, it lets you decide about how common raise dead and resurrection are in your world. If a party member dies, perhaps there is an ally in phandolin, or in neverwinter that can revive the party member... for a fee, a price, or a favor.. thereby creating another plot thread for your world.
There is really no right or wrong way through this, it's about what works best for you and your table of players.
If you are really concerned, you can always simply have the dragon fly away at a dramatically narrative point.
My $.02 -- hope that helps :)
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"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
One thing I do to dragons in my campaigns is to the breath. If the damage is 12d6, I make it a pool of d6's. The dragon can start out early in the fight doing just 4d6 and still have 8d6 worth of breath for another turn if they feel it hasn't scared off the intruders. On every turn the dragon also regains 1 die for the breath pool. If the dragons uses all of their breath, I roll a d6 and on a 5 or 6 they regain all the die for the pool.
I don't think you need to lower the CR because the players don't have to fight it. They should probably figure out that the dragon is too tough for them and leave it be,
This really depends on the group. Many groups will jump into a fight because they don't know the meaning of run away.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Additionally, consider what Venomfang has to gain from killing or bargaining with the PCs. Even young green dragons are much smarter than the average humanoid, and all green dragons, regardless of age, love to corrupt and mislead mortal adventurers. If Venomfang can lead the PCs to another location and fatten them up on treasure and loot it can later take on their way back, that's a surefire win. Its prey becomes considerably richer in gold and magic items, so it didn't have to go through the work of getting the treasure itself, and the party is presumably led to trust Venomfang. Sure, now they're stronger, more adept adventurers and more likely to win in a fight, but maybe Venomfang doesn't know or care about that. It's a risky gambit on his part, but a lot more sweeter if he wins.
Yeah, when I first played LMoP, my assumption was that "This dragon is too tough for you to fight. What do you do?" was literally the point of the dragon being put in the adventure...
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I'm running the starter set and my group has set out for Thundertree, where they are supposed to fight a Young Green Dragon (CR8) and bring it to half health to chase it off. However, they've only just reached level 3 and its dragon breath alone could probably wipe them. How do I get a CR appropriate dragon, beef up a Green Dragon Wyrmling (CR2) and have them kill it, or downgrade the YGD so it's CR6? And what would be the best way to adjust the CR?
If you're that worried. You can always lower the amount of dice rolled for damage. Instead of the 12d6 lower it to a more appropriate number. Look at the HP of your characters. If a Dragon breath can do, on average, 75% of their max HP it's fine. It is supposed to scare them shitless. As for the 5-6 recharge. Could turn it to a 6 only. And even then fudge it if you roll really well that session.
I don't think you need to lower the CR because the players don't have to fight it. They should probably figure out that the dragon is too tough for them and leave it be, or if they need something from it try to get it with noncombat means. In the first group I played LMOP in we didn't fight it. I've definitely heard other groups on the forums discuss having done that.
In my opinion, the purpose of the Dragon in Thundertree is to give DMs an intro into setting the power level and deadliness of their games.
If you downgrade the dragon and make it easy, then your players will begin expecting to be able to defeat anything you throw at them. That's a fine perspective -IF- that is how you want to run your game.
If you leave the dragon as is and play it intelligently, he can easily destroy most parties. That establishes to the players that they may need to avoid certain situations or defuse them.
The encounter gives you as the DM an opportunity to create a longer term villain (if the dragon flees and wants revenge -- or if the dragon kills a party member or two and they later want revenge). It's all up to how you want to setup your world and events in it.
Additionally, it lets you decide about how common raise dead and resurrection are in your world. If a party member dies, perhaps there is an ally in phandolin, or in neverwinter that can revive the party member... for a fee, a price, or a favor.. thereby creating another plot thread for your world.
There is really no right or wrong way through this, it's about what works best for you and your table of players.
If you are really concerned, you can always simply have the dragon fly away at a dramatically narrative point.
My $.02 -- hope that helps :)
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
One thing I do to dragons in my campaigns is to the breath. If the damage is 12d6, I make it a pool of d6's. The dragon can start out early in the fight doing just 4d6 and still have 8d6 worth of breath for another turn if they feel it hasn't scared off the intruders. On every turn the dragon also regains 1 die for the breath pool. If the dragons uses all of their breath, I roll a d6 and on a 5 or 6 they regain all the die for the pool.
This really depends on the group. Many groups will jump into a fight because they don't know the meaning of run away.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Additionally, consider what Venomfang has to gain from killing or bargaining with the PCs. Even young green dragons are much smarter than the average humanoid, and all green dragons, regardless of age, love to corrupt and mislead mortal adventurers. If Venomfang can lead the PCs to another location and fatten them up on treasure and loot it can later take on their way back, that's a surefire win. Its prey becomes considerably richer in gold and magic items, so it didn't have to go through the work of getting the treasure itself, and the party is presumably led to trust Venomfang. Sure, now they're stronger, more adept adventurers and more likely to win in a fight, but maybe Venomfang doesn't know or care about that. It's a risky gambit on his part, but a lot more sweeter if he wins.
Yeah, when I first played LMoP, my assumption was that "This dragon is too tough for you to fight. What do you do?" was literally the point of the dragon being put in the adventure...