I am running a 5E game and have been looking at FR canon, as I want it to run according to the actual canon of the Realms. I have not played during the Troubles since the Original Shadowdale, Tantras and Waterdeep adventures came out about 30 years ago. I read all the books, and have read them again to run the game.
This is my question as I read 5E canon and do my research.
Back in 2E, in the Tantras module Clerics could cast up to 3rd level spells throughout the Godswar. This is RAW and I can see it in Black and White print. I have been trying to find where any edition after changed this in print...and I can't find it. The wiki's all say Divine magic takes a dump and uses pg 264 of the 3E FR Campaign Setting as a reference...yet there is no mention of this in that book. Then I see the novel Siege of Darkness used as that reference under the Time of Troubles wiki. That seems to be where this "within 1 mile of a deity's avatar" casting rule came from. All that is mentioned anywhere in RAW is "prayers went unanswered"...which also occurred in 2e.
My question...where in the RAW rules 2e-5e does it state that Divine Magic users lost ALL SPELLS in the Troubles unless they were a mile from their God?
I know as a DM I can change this (and I will back to 2e RAW from Tantras) but I gotta know is this all some big mistake somebody made in the wiki that has grown to be canon, did an R.A. Salvatore novel make an in game RAW rule obsolete or does this rule actually exist in black and white?
Because the module you point to is my argument. It specifically states:
"Clerics cannot gain spells of third level or greater through prayer from the moment the storm begins. These effects include Player Characters, and continue until the end of the adventure."
Tantras, the next adventure in the series, plainly states in the DM section :
"Because deities are directly involved with the goings-on in the Realms and are disregarding their usual responsibilities, priest characters find that they are unable to gain or regain any spells of 3rd level or higher. And as if this magical upheaval wasn't bad enough, the very land itself is in chaos; unpredictable and unnatural effects may occur at any time, causing everyone to be on their guard even more than usual. "
After this, I can find no black and white written rule in any sourcebook from the Tantras module up through 5e that states differently. Only wiki stuff written by us regular folk, that have references to pages in books (when followed) have no reference or rule to back up the wiki claim. I have gone through every single FR book I can think of looking for a contradiction to the 2e printed rule of 3rd and higher...I can find none.
Not trying to push back, just further explaining my plight. :-)
Well, 5e's source books outside the core three are all like written by some NPCs, and are meant to exist in the fantasy world (you can buy books about forgotten realms in forgotten realms), so I don't think they are supposed to be the "god version" of things. Rather, they are history records that is being passed into the next generation in the fantasy world. Therefore they may not be accurate, and they may not be subjective.
Then wiki pages come from those books.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is, there is no point to do the full scientific proof of things. Or in other words, there is probably no canon.
Where did you see the whole "clerics lose all their spells" thingy? And does it have a citation?
Forgotten Realms wikis, you tube videos on Realms history, pretty much anyone that posts online holds that as canon. Catch is, no one can cite where this is written. All citations lead to books with no RAW rule or mention of spells lost.
I now it is a tiny, almost insignificant detail to most people...but its a HUGE part of the Time of Troubles and canon wise, it kinda matters to me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Question.
I am running a 5E game and have been looking at FR canon, as I want it to run according to the actual canon of the Realms. I have not played during the Troubles since the Original Shadowdale, Tantras and Waterdeep adventures came out about 30 years ago. I read all the books, and have read them again to run the game.
This is my question as I read 5E canon and do my research.
Back in 2E, in the Tantras module Clerics could cast up to 3rd level spells throughout the Godswar. This is RAW and I can see it in Black and White print. I have been trying to find where any edition after changed this in print...and I can't find it. The wiki's all say Divine magic takes a dump and uses pg 264 of the 3E FR Campaign Setting as a reference...yet there is no mention of this in that book. Then I see the novel Siege of Darkness used as that reference under the Time of Troubles wiki. That seems to be where this "within 1 mile of a deity's avatar" casting rule came from. All that is mentioned anywhere in RAW is "prayers went unanswered"...which also occurred in 2e.
My question...where in the RAW rules 2e-5e does it state that Divine Magic users lost ALL SPELLS in the Troubles unless they were a mile from their God?
I know as a DM I can change this (and I will back to 2e RAW from Tantras) but I gotta know is this all some big mistake somebody made in the wiki that has grown to be canon, did an R.A. Salvatore novel make an in game RAW rule obsolete or does this rule actually exist in black and white?
Thanks Hive mind.
Shadowdale book, page 6, bold “important note”?
The novel?
Because the module you point to is my argument. It specifically states:
"Clerics cannot gain spells of third level or greater through prayer from the moment the storm begins. These effects include Player Characters, and continue until the end of the adventure."
Tantras, the next adventure in the series, plainly states in the DM section :
"Because deities are directly involved with the goings-on in the Realms and are disregarding their usual responsibilities, priest characters find that they are unable to gain or regain any spells of 3rd level or higher. And as if this magical upheaval wasn't bad enough, the very land itself is in chaos; unpredictable and unnatural effects may occur at any time, causing everyone to be on their guard even more than usual. "
After this, I can find no black and white written rule in any sourcebook from the Tantras module up through 5e that states differently. Only wiki stuff written by us regular folk, that have references to pages in books (when followed) have no reference or rule to back up the wiki claim. I have gone through every single FR book I can think of looking for a contradiction to the 2e printed rule of 3rd and higher...I can find none.
Not trying to push back, just further explaining my plight. :-)
Well, 5e's source books outside the core three are all like written by some NPCs, and are meant to exist in the fantasy world (you can buy books about forgotten realms in forgotten realms), so I don't think they are supposed to be the "god version" of things. Rather, they are history records that is being passed into the next generation in the fantasy world. Therefore they may not be accurate, and they may not be subjective.
Then wiki pages come from those books.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is, there is no point to do the full scientific proof of things. Or in other words, there is probably no canon.
Where did you see the whole "clerics lose all their spells" thingy? And does it have a citation?
Forgotten Realms wikis, you tube videos on Realms history, pretty much anyone that posts online holds that as canon. Catch is, no one can cite where this is written. All citations lead to books with no RAW rule or mention of spells lost.
I now it is a tiny, almost insignificant detail to most people...but its a HUGE part of the Time of Troubles and canon wise, it kinda matters to me.