So i have about six months to have the basics of my campaign down, normally not a problem.
The problem comes from how they game and I DM. The group were in is very hack and slash, murderhobos everywhere would be proud. I dont mind gaming like this, i do miss rp sometimes.
The problem comes with me as a DM ive always been lucky (very lucky) and except for this group they have all loved rp. We went 2 months without rolling to hit once (im very proud the group i was with put that much work into it).
This group wants me to giving DMing with them a go, and they want to try rping a bit. So for the first time in my DM life im worried that i wont be able to balance the game with enough combat to keep them interested.
Hmm never been in this situation myself before so not sure how much help i will be, however what i would suggest is incorporate rp into the combat maybe? They like fighting and slugfests then make part of your campaign an unarmed fighting tournament? As we all know smack talk and reverse psychology are all parts of fights like this so their opponent can be mocking them and making comments all during the fights. The other members have to watch and take bets which could have some good rp included as well. Just a quick idea might be a good early way to introduce them to some rp elements whilst also sating their lust for a fight.
If they want to RP, then they've likely just not been given the chance. It may just be that when you present them with opportunities they jump into it.
I suggest running a campaign that doesn't require them to be good guys: have them serve a selfish or warlike being. It doesn't have to be an all out evil murderous type, but make certain goals clear to them early on, such as they need to win over some people from a town. That way they can occasionally go all sword-frenzy wheen they want to, but will have RP elements too.
Give them personal storylines that cannot be resolved through combat. Relationships (romantic or otherwise) with NPCs. It's far easier to invest in a personal storyline than it is a grand quest to overcome a dragon or save the queen. When I'm a player, I'm far more interested in playing my character to advance his story than I am the overall campaign.
Give them games that require subterfuge and stealth. Make them go to a masquerade ball where they have to discover which of three mayoral candidates is planning a coup (surprise, it's none of them, it's the doppleganger who employed you...!). Have them judge a "guess the weight of the pig" at a fair only for the pig they win to be a demon that goes on a rampage. Make them hold a dinner party.
But most of all: make it really clear early on that there are penalties for just murdering their way through the game. They exist in a living, breathing world. Maybe there are two siblings in the area responsible for keeping the peace: a Level 10 Paladin and his Level 10 Wizard sister. Ensure that they're aware that the pala/wizard combo recently hanged four adventurers for murdering a shopkeeper - seeing their bodies swinging from a gibbet should help to get the message across. I frequently put in high level creatures or NPCs that my players are not intended to fight, but if they attack them, well, everyone is just one Finger of Death away from dying.
Murder hobos only get away with it if they feel indestructible. Kill them as frequently as their actions force you to. You run the world for them, but it's their playpen and they get to do what they want, and reap the rewards from trying it. If they go to your masquerade ball, and stab someone at random, then bring down the pala/wizard and 10 royal guards, kill the perpetrator and knock the rest out and capture them, or kill them if they were joining in. Make some of the guests way too strong for the players to beat in a fight, and if they start randomly attacking, don't give them "Plot Armour" (e.g. This PC is important to the game, so even though he tried to cut his throat, the level 13 Fighter will aim to knock him out instead of kill him) But if you do this, make sure it's really foreshadowed that this is likely to happen. It's fine to kill players when they're idiots, just don't do it out of the blue as punishment. Make it a logical occurrence in the world.
"This group wants me to giving DMing with them a go, and they want to try rping a bit. So for the first time in my DM life im worried that i wont be able to balance the game with enough combat to keep them interested."
The group is asking you to DM and expressed interest in RP, Might try a tester start with them escorting a merchant who can drop hints about local points of interest (some say the local bandits store their I'll gotten gains in a cave nearby, ECT.) Maybe have a goblin encounter where they can choose kill, scare off(disguise caravan or something to trigger superstitious fear), or try to dominate the goblins and convince them to become scouts for the group. If they aren't used to looking for non combat solutions the merchant might be a good way to seed those ideas.
TLDR: they sound like they are asking for RP, so give it to them with opt in combat options.
All great advice, but when in doubt don't forget Occam's Razor. Have you tried telling them your thoughts? Not like in an accusatory "you guys never roleplay" way, but more like "ok, I designed this as a roleplay encounter so I'd like you to try..."
Not everything we do as DM's needs to be from a design perspective and it might seem a little metagamey to just tell them what you want, but maybe they've been looking for opportunities to roleplay and haven't seen them and have convinced themselves that that's just not the kind of game they're in. By asking them to rp, you're essentially giving them permission to if they didn't think it would be welcome.
All great advice, but when in doubt don't forget Occam's Razor. Have you tried telling them your thoughts? Not like in an accusatory "you guys never roleplay" way, but more like "ok, I designed this as a roleplay encounter so I'd like you to try..."
Not everything we do as DM's needs to be from a design perspective and it might seem a little metagamey to just tell them what you want, but maybe they've been looking for opportunities to roleplay and haven't seen them and have convinced themselves that that's just not the kind of game they're in. By asking them to rp, you're essentially giving them permission to if they didn't think it would be welcome.
Personally I'd avoid asking them what they wanted, and just let them get on with playing. What they think they want, and what they might enjoy the most might be different. Ultimately I'd rather run a campaign my way and then ask them how they felt, whether they were enjoying it and so on. If they want more combat, adjust it in small increments until you find a balance you are all happy with. I think that if a group said to me "To be honest, we just want to do dungeon crawls and kill stuff. I don't really want to develop a character personality" then I'd have to tell them that I'm not really the DM for them. My games will always be what I want them to be, although I'll always try to pursue storylines and concepts that my players are interested in, e.g. one player wanted to learn about medicine and make psychadelic drugs. A couple of sessions later she found some magic mushrooms and an ancient medical library, but alas, she didn't seem to have much interest in them after all :S
I don't mean asking the players what they want, I mean the DM telling the players their feelings. Cause if the DM isn't fully in on the fun, the game is gonna suffer
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So i have about six months to have the basics of my campaign down, normally not a problem.
The problem comes from how they game and I DM. The group were in is very hack and slash, murderhobos everywhere would be proud. I dont mind gaming like this, i do miss rp sometimes.
The problem comes with me as a DM ive always been lucky (very lucky) and except for this group they have all loved rp. We went 2 months without rolling to hit once (im very proud the group i was with put that much work into it).
This group wants me to giving DMing with them a go, and they want to try rping a bit. So for the first time in my DM life im worried that i wont be able to balance the game with enough combat to keep them interested.
Tldr Ive never tried to rp.with murderhobos
Hmm never been in this situation myself before so not sure how much help i will be, however what i would suggest is incorporate rp into the combat maybe? They like fighting and slugfests then make part of your campaign an unarmed fighting tournament? As we all know smack talk and reverse psychology are all parts of fights like this so their opponent can be mocking them and making comments all during the fights. The other members have to watch and take bets which could have some good rp included as well. Just a quick idea might be a good early way to introduce them to some rp elements whilst also sating their lust for a fight.
If they want to RP, then they've likely just not been given the chance. It may just be that when you present them with opportunities they jump into it.
I suggest running a campaign that doesn't require them to be good guys: have them serve a selfish or warlike being. It doesn't have to be an all out evil murderous type, but make certain goals clear to them early on, such as they need to win over some people from a town. That way they can occasionally go all sword-frenzy wheen they want to, but will have RP elements too.
Give them personal storylines that cannot be resolved through combat. Relationships (romantic or otherwise) with NPCs. It's far easier to invest in a personal storyline than it is a grand quest to overcome a dragon or save the queen. When I'm a player, I'm far more interested in playing my character to advance his story than I am the overall campaign.
Give them games that require subterfuge and stealth. Make them go to a masquerade ball where they have to discover which of three mayoral candidates is planning a coup (surprise, it's none of them, it's the doppleganger who employed you...!). Have them judge a "guess the weight of the pig" at a fair only for the pig they win to be a demon that goes on a rampage. Make them hold a dinner party.
But most of all: make it really clear early on that there are penalties for just murdering their way through the game. They exist in a living, breathing world. Maybe there are two siblings in the area responsible for keeping the peace: a Level 10 Paladin and his Level 10 Wizard sister. Ensure that they're aware that the pala/wizard combo recently hanged four adventurers for murdering a shopkeeper - seeing their bodies swinging from a gibbet should help to get the message across. I frequently put in high level creatures or NPCs that my players are not intended to fight, but if they attack them, well, everyone is just one Finger of Death away from dying.
Murder hobos only get away with it if they feel indestructible. Kill them as frequently as their actions force you to. You run the world for them, but it's their playpen and they get to do what they want, and reap the rewards from trying it. If they go to your masquerade ball, and stab someone at random, then bring down the pala/wizard and 10 royal guards, kill the perpetrator and knock the rest out and capture them, or kill them if they were joining in. Make some of the guests way too strong for the players to beat in a fight, and if they start randomly attacking, don't give them "Plot Armour" (e.g. This PC is important to the game, so even though he tried to cut his throat, the level 13 Fighter will aim to knock him out instead of kill him) But if you do this, make sure it's really foreshadowed that this is likely to happen. It's fine to kill players when they're idiots, just don't do it out of the blue as punishment. Make it a logical occurrence in the world.
The group is asking you to DM and expressed interest in RP, Might try a tester start with them escorting a merchant who can drop hints about local points of interest (some say the local bandits store their I'll gotten gains in a cave nearby, ECT.) Maybe have a goblin encounter where they can choose kill, scare off(disguise caravan or something to trigger superstitious fear), or try to dominate the goblins and convince them to become scouts for the group. If they aren't used to looking for non combat solutions the merchant might be a good way to seed those ideas.
TLDR: they sound like they are asking for RP, so give it to them with opt in combat options.
All great advice, but when in doubt don't forget Occam's Razor. Have you tried telling them your thoughts? Not like in an accusatory "you guys never roleplay" way, but more like "ok, I designed this as a roleplay encounter so I'd like you to try..."
Not everything we do as DM's needs to be from a design perspective and it might seem a little metagamey to just tell them what you want, but maybe they've been looking for opportunities to roleplay and haven't seen them and have convinced themselves that that's just not the kind of game they're in. By asking them to rp, you're essentially giving them permission to if they didn't think it would be welcome.
Personally I'd avoid asking them what they wanted, and just let them get on with playing. What they think they want, and what they might enjoy the most might be different. Ultimately I'd rather run a campaign my way and then ask them how they felt, whether they were enjoying it and so on. If they want more combat, adjust it in small increments until you find a balance you are all happy with. I think that if a group said to me "To be honest, we just want to do dungeon crawls and kill stuff. I don't really want to develop a character personality" then I'd have to tell them that I'm not really the DM for them. My games will always be what I want them to be, although I'll always try to pursue storylines and concepts that my players are interested in, e.g. one player wanted to learn about medicine and make psychadelic drugs. A couple of sessions later she found some magic mushrooms and an ancient medical library, but alas, she didn't seem to have much interest in them after all :S
I don't mean asking the players what they want, I mean the DM telling the players their feelings. Cause if the DM isn't fully in on the fun, the game is gonna suffer