I'm currently DMing a group with two rather problematic players in a group of three. The players are still fairly new to roleplaying and just finished their first (and for me as dm first) short campaign.
The first problem player doesn't get any of the signals that I'm giving him to warn about the upcoming danger. I've had multiple occasions where I gave him 3 extra signs that an ambush was about to happen. The other two players, who had to stay silent because their characters didn't get the signs, clearly understood my signals, yet he didn't do a thing and triggered the ambush every single time. The player at hand also does some really weird things like entering the inn (at the start of the second campaign) without wearing any clothes because he apparently forgot them.
Problem player 2 is technically playing very well, especially for someone with so little experience. Her character can be rather annoying though, taunting friendly NPC's for no apparent reason. She's also very annoying to the third player to the point that it becomes very unlogical for the third player to stick with the party.
I'm planning to address the players on their behavior but aside from that I also want to see what I can do about this behavior during play sessions. Does anyone have any tips for me on how to deal with them?
I... am not sure you can... or really even have to... do very much about these players. It sounds to me like all of you just need to get more practice/experience at D&D. Some of these behaviors will work themselves out over time as you play. As long as the players aren't annoying each other to the point that it jeopardizes the group, I would say just let everyone take the time to get experienced and things will probably resolve themselves of their own accord.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
So there's a few possible causes of this I can think of, which should be treated really differently.
The first option I can think of - because they're new players, they're just overdoing the RP. Like, player 1 wants a flaw of his character to be absent-mindedness... so he has them forget to wear clothes! Player 2 has a character that's got some annoying personality trait so they're REALLY leaning into it!
If that's the case, that's not a bad start! They're trying to play characters, don't quite have the feel for how extreme they can take it, going too far. I'd say that in this case, start having some gentle in-game consequences or guardrails when they take it too far, to get them back on a reasonable track. Like, showing up nude at an inn should result in, say, the innkeeper thinking the PC is just smashed-out drunk, and locking you in the back room for a few hours to "sober up". Or the guards being called and holding the PC overnight for drunk and disorderly. ...or you can go "wait a second, what did the other PCs say when you've been traveling with them naked all day" and you end up with some extra backfilled RP where the rest of the party reminds the guy to put on clothes (because come on, that would have been noticed the second the guy walked out the door or got up in the campsite).
For player 2, that taunts friendly NPCs - well, that can definitely make an NPC stop being friendly. Have that have an reasonable in-game consequence - the shopkeeper starts charging more, the NPC is less willing to give help or advice without extra placation, etc.
Nothing major. Just enough to send the message that actions have consequences, and so they have to tone down the absurd behavior to more reasonable levels. They'll get better at figuring out what's a more reasonable level to RP flaws at as they get more experience. You just need to nudge them in the right direction.
The second possible option - the players aren't taking the game seriously, believe nothing they do matters, and so they do crazy stuff just 'cuz LOLRANDOM.
"What if I show up to the inn NAKED and my teamate tells the guard to SHOVE THE 1GP UP THEIR .... and we still still stay at the inn for PHB price, move on the next day to the next combat." This puts the DM in a terrible situation where they either have to break the campaign to deal with the players' nonsense (great, now this campaign revolves around the players fighting the town guards and becoming outlaws, or breaking out of jail, instead of whatever it was supposed to be about) or letting them get away with nonsense (which reinforces the "LOL NOTHING MATTERS").
This should be handled out-of-character, not in-character. "Look guys, your characters are doing things that make no sense. This would get you arrested or run out of town, and as far as I know we didn't plan to have a campaign about you guys becoming petty vandals with arrest warrants. Something's gotta change."
Player 1: This one should be solved in-game. Sometimes a character death is required to teach a new player that the stakes are real and fortune favours the cautious. A player of mine just had to make a new character because her druid wasn't fitting in with the group.
If you don't want to kill a character, then knock them unconscious and have bandits steal all of their equipment, money, and spellbooks.
Player 2: This is more difficult, but one of the duties of a DM is to act a bit like a parent, and to gently remind players that the party is sacred. There's an unspoken agreement in place during a D&D game, that the DM is the bad guy, and unless a situation absolutely demands you to work against the interest of the party, you generally sacrifice roleplay for group harmony. Taunting an NPC controlled by the DM is fine, but if they do, halve rewards offered, throw them out of inns to suffer exhaustion, and make their lives miserable.
Sent them a private message, or have a quick sidebar before you begin the next game. Mention that you've noticed an unfortunate trend of party members targeting eachother. Remind them firmly that the party is sacred, that you are the bad guy, and that screwing with the group causes groups to break up.
As other suggested, I'd deal with bad behavior in the game. Warn the players that there will be consequences for this type of thing and then if they want their characters to do it anyway, have the town constabulary called and threaten to arrest or throw them in jail. The campaign may just take an unexpected turn; go with it.
Thanks for the great advice. As suggested I will address the players outside of the game that the party is sacred and will deal with the rest of the behavior in the game. Time to plan a new session and put it to practice.
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I'm currently DMing a group with two rather problematic players in a group of three. The players are still fairly new to roleplaying and just finished their first (and for me as dm first) short campaign.
The first problem player doesn't get any of the signals that I'm giving him to warn about the upcoming danger. I've had multiple occasions where I gave him 3 extra signs that an ambush was about to happen. The other two players, who had to stay silent because their characters didn't get the signs, clearly understood my signals, yet he didn't do a thing and triggered the ambush every single time. The player at hand also does some really weird things like entering the inn (at the start of the second campaign) without wearing any clothes because he apparently forgot them.
Problem player 2 is technically playing very well, especially for someone with so little experience. Her character can be rather annoying though, taunting friendly NPC's for no apparent reason. She's also very annoying to the third player to the point that it becomes very unlogical for the third player to stick with the party.
I'm planning to address the players on their behavior but aside from that I also want to see what I can do about this behavior during play sessions. Does anyone have any tips for me on how to deal with them?
I... am not sure you can... or really even have to... do very much about these players. It sounds to me like all of you just need to get more practice/experience at D&D. Some of these behaviors will work themselves out over time as you play. As long as the players aren't annoying each other to the point that it jeopardizes the group, I would say just let everyone take the time to get experienced and things will probably resolve themselves of their own accord.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
So there's a few possible causes of this I can think of, which should be treated really differently.
The first option I can think of - because they're new players, they're just overdoing the RP. Like, player 1 wants a flaw of his character to be absent-mindedness... so he has them forget to wear clothes! Player 2 has a character that's got some annoying personality trait so they're REALLY leaning into it!
If that's the case, that's not a bad start! They're trying to play characters, don't quite have the feel for how extreme they can take it, going too far. I'd say that in this case, start having some gentle in-game consequences or guardrails when they take it too far, to get them back on a reasonable track. Like, showing up nude at an inn should result in, say, the innkeeper thinking the PC is just smashed-out drunk, and locking you in the back room for a few hours to "sober up". Or the guards being called and holding the PC overnight for drunk and disorderly. ...or you can go "wait a second, what did the other PCs say when you've been traveling with them naked all day" and you end up with some extra backfilled RP where the rest of the party reminds the guy to put on clothes (because come on, that would have been noticed the second the guy walked out the door or got up in the campsite).
For player 2, that taunts friendly NPCs - well, that can definitely make an NPC stop being friendly. Have that have an reasonable in-game consequence - the shopkeeper starts charging more, the NPC is less willing to give help or advice without extra placation, etc.
Nothing major. Just enough to send the message that actions have consequences, and so they have to tone down the absurd behavior to more reasonable levels. They'll get better at figuring out what's a more reasonable level to RP flaws at as they get more experience. You just need to nudge them in the right direction.
The second possible option - the players aren't taking the game seriously, believe nothing they do matters, and so they do crazy stuff just 'cuz LOLRANDOM.
"What if I show up to the inn NAKED and my teamate tells the guard to SHOVE THE 1GP UP THEIR .... and we still still stay at the inn for PHB price, move on the next day to the next combat." This puts the DM in a terrible situation where they either have to break the campaign to deal with the players' nonsense (great, now this campaign revolves around the players fighting the town guards and becoming outlaws, or breaking out of jail, instead of whatever it was supposed to be about) or letting them get away with nonsense (which reinforces the "LOL NOTHING MATTERS").
This should be handled out-of-character, not in-character. "Look guys, your characters are doing things that make no sense. This would get you arrested or run out of town, and as far as I know we didn't plan to have a campaign about you guys becoming petty vandals with arrest warrants. Something's gotta change."
I'll give short answers
Player 1: This one should be solved in-game. Sometimes a character death is required to teach a new player that the stakes are real and fortune favours the cautious. A player of mine just had to make a new character because her druid wasn't fitting in with the group.
If you don't want to kill a character, then knock them unconscious and have bandits steal all of their equipment, money, and spellbooks.
Player 2: This is more difficult, but one of the duties of a DM is to act a bit like a parent, and to gently remind players that the party is sacred. There's an unspoken agreement in place during a D&D game, that the DM is the bad guy, and unless a situation absolutely demands you to work against the interest of the party, you generally sacrifice roleplay for group harmony. Taunting an NPC controlled by the DM is fine, but if they do, halve rewards offered, throw them out of inns to suffer exhaustion, and make their lives miserable.
Sent them a private message, or have a quick sidebar before you begin the next game. Mention that you've noticed an unfortunate trend of party members targeting eachother. Remind them firmly that the party is sacred, that you are the bad guy, and that screwing with the group causes groups to break up.
As other suggested, I'd deal with bad behavior in the game. Warn the players that there will be consequences for this type of thing and then if they want their characters to do it anyway, have the town constabulary called and threaten to arrest or throw them in jail. The campaign may just take an unexpected turn; go with it.
Thanks for the great advice. As suggested I will address the players outside of the game that the party is sacred and will deal with the rest of the behavior in the game. Time to plan a new session and put it to practice.