So I still fully get how to properly understand how to balance an encounter. The campaign im planning on running is one where the main antagonist is a young adult white dragon, and it is possible for the players to encounter him at level 1.
The question I am asking is, would the players able to survive this encounter?
So I still fully get how to properly understand how to balance an encounter. The campaign im planning on running is one where the main antagonist is a young adult white dragon, and it is possible for the players to encounter him at level 1.
The question I am asking is, would the players able to survive this encounter?
Not if it attacks them. I'm not sure if you mean 'young' or 'adult', 'young adult' doesn't exist in 5e, but a young white dragon's breath weapon will auto-kill any level 1 PC unless they are resistant to cold, make their save (Con DC 15), and have 12+ hit points, which gives a silver or white dragonborn fighter or barbarian about a 50% chance of having a hit point left, and its melee attack routine is three attacks any one of which will one-shot a level 1.
So I still fully get how to properly understand how to balance an encounter. The campaign im planning on running is one where the main antagonist is a young adult white dragon, and it is possible for the players to encounter him at level 1.
The question I am asking is, would the players able to survive this encounter?
Not if it attacks them. I'm not sure if you mean 'young' or 'adult', 'young adult' doesn't exist in 5e, but a young white dragon's breath weapon will auto-kill any level 1 PC unless they are resistant to cold, make their save (Con DC 15), and have 12+ hit points, which gives a silver or white dragonborn fighter or barbarian about a 50% chance of having a hit point left, and its melee attack routine is three attacks any one of which will one-shot a level 1.
Is it possible for the characters to encounter a young white dragon. Absolutely. It would end with the characters running away or doing a task for the dragon though.
Is it possible for the characters to survive a combat encounter with it, Very doubtful, maybe if you have 12-16 characters. Main problems are AC 17 when most characters have a +4-6 to hit, so at best a 45% chance of hitting, next Flying, so only ranged attacks, 133 hp. Meanwhile the Young White Dragon will hit 60-80% of the time with it's physical attacks, dropping almost any character with d8 or d6 Hit Die in one hit on average, as stated Breath Weapon will do an average minimum of 11 points of damage to a cold resistant successful save character. The Young White Dragon is a CR 6 creature, meaning it is a challenge for 4-6 level 6 characters.
It would probably be best to use it as a "Cutscene" that the characters see the dragon attacking something from afar (as in miles away) and get there for the aftermath. Then they help those attacked, leading on a path which will lead them to a showdown with the dragon several adventures/levels later...
As you continue to create this encounter, may I offer a piece of advice I had to learn the hard way?
Never assume your players will run. It sounds reasonable for the party to encounter an enemy that is overwhelmingly powerful and decide to retreat. But in practice D&D players HATE RUNNING. If they encounter your dragon think of a reason your dragon would not engage or be distracted away from your players. Because you cannot count on them retreating.
As you continue to create this encounter, may I offer a piece of advice I had to learn the hard way?
Never assume your players will run. It sounds reasonable for the party to encounter an enemy that is overwhelmingly powerful and decide to retreat. But in practice D&D players HATE RUNNING. If they encounter your dragon think of a reason your dragon would not engage or be distracted away from your players. Because you cannot count on them retreating.
Ah. Okay. Since white dragons are hunters, it would most likely stalk them.
A level 1 party would have absolutely NO hope against a young white dragon. It gets three attacks each of which does average damage that typically exceeds most first level character hit points. There is a decent chance it could kill all three characters in the first round.
Even a white dragon wyrmling has a very good chance of killing three first level characters but it might take a couple extra rounds to do so. One cold breath from either is likely to kill off the entire party.
So .. no .. any white dragon encounter for a group of level 1s is going to fail spectacularly unless the party runs away and hides and, as mentioned, many parties tend to avoid "discretion is the better part of valor" in the mistaken belief that the DM won't put them in a situation where they can't fight their way out.
If this is your planned villain in the campaign then I would suggest avoiding any combat encounters with the creature until they are high enough level to meaningfully engage it. Since a young adult white dragon is CR6, you are probably looking at level 6+ depending on magic items.
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YOUNG WHITE DRAGON Large dragon, chaotic evil Armor Class 17 (natural armor) Hit Points 133 (14d10 + 56)
Challenge 6 (2,300 XP)
Multiattack - three attacks - 1 bite and 2 claws
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 10ft., one target. Hit: 15 (2d10 + 4) piercing damage plus 4 (1d8) cold damage. Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft ., one target. Hit: 11 (2d6 + 4) slashing damage.
Cold Breath (Recharge 5-6). The dragon exhales an icy blast in a 30-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw, taking 45 (10d8) cold damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
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WHITE DRAGON WY·RMLING Medium dragon, chaotic evil Armor Class 16 (natural armor) Hit Points 32 (5d8 + 10)
Challenge 2 (450 XP)
ACTIONS Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d10 + 2) piercing damage plus 2 (1d4) cold damage.
Cold Breath (Recharge 5-6). The dragon exhales an icy blast of hail in a 15-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a DC 12 Constitution saving throw, taking 22 (5d8) cold damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Im going to be honest. Unless the PC's have very specific magic items, are extremely talented, the dragon is severely weakened, or there is more of them, they will likely perish. Consider something else, such as a wyvern, or other dragon related things that arent nearly as powerful as an Adult White Dragon.
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As you continue to create this encounter, may I offer a piece of advice I had to learn the hard way?
Never assume your players will run. It sounds reasonable for the party to encounter an enemy that is overwhelmingly powerful and decide to retreat. But in practice D&D players HATE RUNNING. If they encounter your dragon think of a reason your dragon would not engage or be distracted away from your players. Because you cannot count on them retreating.
It's not even just that players hate running - and they do; it's a psychological thing - but also that running rarely works well given 5e mechanics. Most enemies the PCs face will almost always be at least as fast as the PC, if not faster - so even if the PCs do run, most of them won't get away at all. They just end up delaying the inevitable.
By the way, I always have the following little chat at the start of any campaign, even with the old crusties I’ve played with for decades:
The name of the game is Dungeons and DRAGONS. Not all dungeons are underground, but all DRAGONS are deadly. When you see a DRAGON you should always be concerned, no matter how big or small. My DRAGONS are not from the MM, but they are based upon it. If you, as a party, think you can “take” a DRAGON I warn you now, reconsider that thought. Make sure you have a guaranteed way to escape and can truly resurrect anyone in your party or those the characters may care about. DRAGONS do not waste food and they don’t digest slowly. DRAGONS do not suffer fools and they are quite unsure if the gods themselves are not fools. I hope that is clear.
Now on to the world specifics and campaign set-up...
By the way, I always have the following little chat at the start of any campaign, even with the old crusties I’ve played with for decades:
The name of the game is Dungeons and DRAGONS. Not all dungeons are underground, but all DRAGONS are deadly. When you see a DRAGON you should always be concerned, no matter how big or small. My DRAGONS are not from the MM, but they are based upon it. If you, as a party, think you can “take” a DRAGON I warn you now, reconsider that thought. Make sure you have a guaranteed way to escape and can truly resurrect anyone in your party or those the characters may care about. DRAGONS do not waste food and they don’t digest slowly. DRAGONS do not suffer fools and they are quite unsure if the gods themselves are not fools. I hope that is clear.
Now on to the world specifics and campaign set-up...
Yes, solid agreement on this. Even if its a wyrmling, dont immediately attack it. Chances are that the Momma is nearby, and now a party of level 5s has pissed off an Ancient Dragon Momma cause they killed her baby. Beware, adventurers. No young dragon or dragon wyrmling is ever truly alone.
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The encounter should last as many rounds as they are spread apart. A young adult dragons breath weapon is going to wipe anyone out save or not at level 1
I threw 3 wrymlins at my party at level 2 and nearly destroyed them.
Use the encounter generator here at DND beyond. I just put in 1 Young White Dragon vs 6 level one characters and it marked the encounter as Deadly. 12 characters made it Hard and 16 made it medium. Now that would be on the hope they are not all in the cone at the same time and at least 2/3 of them survive to get a hit in. And Hit well
A party of eight level 1 wizards or sorcerers can probably kill a young white dragon (with two casualties), by just spreading out and Magic Missiling it to death. I don't think there are any other options that will be better against AC 17.
Actually, hm... multiattack can probably be split across movement, which realistically allows taking down two (the wizards might as well shield, so more than 2 is unlikely), which I think bumps the party size requirement to 9.
That would require 50-60 magic missiles to take down those 133 hit points... Last I checked, 1st level spellcasters only have 2 first level spell slots...
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So I still fully get how to properly understand how to balance an encounter. The campaign im planning on running is one where the main antagonist is a young adult white dragon, and it is possible for the players to encounter him at level 1.
The question I am asking is, would the players able to survive this encounter?
NOT UNLESS THE LEVEL 1 HAS OP MAGIC ITEMS
IF THE YOUNG WHITE DRAGON WAS A WYRMLING THEN THE LEVEL 1 MIGHT WIN
BUT A YOUNG WHITE DRAGON NO WAY
Hi Im the nimble king
What if the dragon in question was missing a left arm and an eye?
Not if it attacks them. I'm not sure if you mean 'young' or 'adult', 'young adult' doesn't exist in 5e, but a young white dragon's breath weapon will auto-kill any level 1 PC unless they are resistant to cold, make their save (Con DC 15), and have 12+ hit points, which gives a silver or white dragonborn fighter or barbarian about a 50% chance of having a hit point left, and its melee attack routine is three attacks any one of which will one-shot a level 1.
Oh it was a young white dragon
Is it possible for the characters to encounter a young white dragon. Absolutely. It would end with the characters running away or doing a task for the dragon though.
Is it possible for the characters to survive a combat encounter with it, Very doubtful, maybe if you have 12-16 characters. Main problems are AC 17 when most characters have a +4-6 to hit, so at best a 45% chance of hitting, next Flying, so only ranged attacks, 133 hp. Meanwhile the Young White Dragon will hit 60-80% of the time with it's physical attacks, dropping almost any character with d8 or d6 Hit Die in one hit on average, as stated Breath Weapon will do an average minimum of 11 points of damage to a cold resistant successful save character. The Young White Dragon is a CR 6 creature, meaning it is a challenge for 4-6 level 6 characters.
It would probably be best to use it as a "Cutscene" that the characters see the dragon attacking something from afar (as in miles away) and get there for the aftermath. Then they help those attacked, leading on a path which will lead them to a showdown with the dragon several adventures/levels later...
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InsiderAs you continue to create this encounter, may I offer a piece of advice I had to learn the hard way?
Never assume your players will run. It sounds reasonable for the party to encounter an enemy that is overwhelmingly powerful and decide to retreat. But in practice D&D players HATE RUNNING. If they encounter your dragon think of a reason your dragon would not engage or be distracted away from your players. Because you cannot count on them retreating.
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Though of course you can use a adult white dragon and scatter them with Frightful Presence. Or house rule it onto a younger dragon. Perhaps:
Lesser Frightful Presence: all creatures within 60' with less than 5d8 (22) hit points must save or be Frightened.
Ah. Okay. Since white dragons are hunters, it would most likely stalk them.
I would just have a convenient NPC to demonstrate how the monster works (by being eaten).
A level 1 party would have absolutely NO hope against a young white dragon. It gets three attacks each of which does average damage that typically exceeds most first level character hit points. There is a decent chance it could kill all three characters in the first round.
Even a white dragon wyrmling has a very good chance of killing three first level characters but it might take a couple extra rounds to do so. One cold breath from either is likely to kill off the entire party.
So .. no .. any white dragon encounter for a group of level 1s is going to fail spectacularly unless the party runs away and hides and, as mentioned, many parties tend to avoid "discretion is the better part of valor" in the mistaken belief that the DM won't put them in a situation where they can't fight their way out.
If this is your planned villain in the campaign then I would suggest avoiding any combat encounters with the creature until they are high enough level to meaningfully engage it. Since a young adult white dragon is CR6, you are probably looking at level 6+ depending on magic items.
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YOUNG WHITE DRAGON
Large dragon, chaotic evil
Armor Class 17 (natural armor)
Hit Points 133 (14d10 + 56)
Challenge 6 (2,300 XP)
Multiattack - three attacks - 1 bite and 2 claws
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 10ft., one target.
Hit: 15 (2d10 + 4) piercing damage plus 4 (1d8) cold damage.
Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft ., one target.
Hit: 11 (2d6 + 4) slashing damage.
Cold Breath (Recharge 5-6). The dragon exhales an icy blast in a 30-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw, taking 45 (10d8) cold damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
-------
WHITE DRAGON WY·RMLING
Medium dragon, chaotic evil
Armor Class 16 (natural armor)
Hit Points 32 (5d8 + 10)
Challenge 2 (450 XP)
ACTIONS
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target.
Hit: 7 (1d10 + 2) piercing damage plus 2 (1d4) cold damage.
Cold Breath (Recharge 5-6). The dragon exhales an icy blast of hail in a 15-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a DC 12 Constitution saving throw, taking 22 (5d8) cold damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Im going to be honest. Unless the PC's have very specific magic items, are extremely talented, the dragon is severely weakened, or there is more of them, they will likely perish. Consider something else, such as a wyvern, or other dragon related things that arent nearly as powerful as an Adult White Dragon.
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Oh boy I've plenty of DMPCs I could kill off.
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ModeratorIt's not even just that players hate running - and they do; it's a psychological thing - but also that running rarely works well given 5e mechanics. Most enemies the PCs face will almost always be at least as fast as the PC, if not faster - so even if the PCs do run, most of them won't get away at all. They just end up delaying the inevitable.
This is especially true with dragons.
If you gave them all resistance to cold damage they might have a chance. You could homebrew a necklace of frost or something.
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By the way, I always have the following little chat at the start of any campaign, even with the old crusties I’ve played with for decades:
The name of the game is Dungeons and DRAGONS. Not all dungeons are underground, but all DRAGONS are deadly. When you see a DRAGON you should always be concerned, no matter how big or small. My DRAGONS are not from the MM, but they are based upon it. If you, as a party, think you can “take” a DRAGON I warn you now, reconsider that thought. Make sure you have a guaranteed way to escape and can truly resurrect anyone in your party or those the characters may care about. DRAGONS do not waste food and they don’t digest slowly. DRAGONS do not suffer fools and they are quite unsure if the gods themselves are not fools. I hope that is clear.
Now on to the world specifics and campaign set-up...
Yes, solid agreement on this. Even if its a wyrmling, dont immediately attack it. Chances are that the Momma is nearby, and now a party of level 5s has pissed off an Ancient Dragon Momma cause they killed her baby. Beware, adventurers. No young dragon or dragon wyrmling is ever truly alone.
I love roleplaying, message me so we can set something up.
I talk everything D&D, message me for questions, chat, arguements, or roleplay!
The encounter should last as many rounds as they are spread apart. A young adult dragons breath weapon is going to wipe anyone out save or not at level 1
I threw 3 wrymlins at my party at level 2 and nearly destroyed them.
Use the encounter generator here at DND beyond. I just put in 1 Young White Dragon vs 6 level one characters and it marked the encounter as Deadly. 12 characters made it Hard and 16 made it medium. Now that would be on the hope they are not all in the cone at the same time and at least 2/3 of them survive to get a hit in. And Hit well
A party of eight level 1 wizards or sorcerers can probably kill a young white dragon (with two casualties), by just spreading out and Magic Missiling it to death. I don't think there are any other options that will be better against AC 17.
Actually, hm... multiattack can probably be split across movement, which realistically allows taking down two (the wizards might as well shield, so more than 2 is unlikely), which I think bumps the party size requirement to 9.
That would require 50-60 magic missiles to take down those 133 hit points... Last I checked, 1st level spellcasters only have 2 first level spell slots...