My warlock wants to take a tiger as her familiar at lvl 3 (Pact of the Chain). I'm worried this will overpower the party. This is a Large CR 1 creature, whereas the Find Familiar spell is clearly written to give the player smaller, more utility based options.
My concerns:
- I don't want to ruin her fun by saying, "You can't have a tiger, but you can have a cat" - I don't want to ruin her fun by making this a DM controlled creature - If I let her run it like an NPC, she will effectively get an extra turn forever which doesn't seem fair for my other players - If I let her run it like an NPC, it will slow down combat because I will have to beef up my encounters with more/stronger creatures
My options as I see them:
- Let her use the tiger as a "magical weapon" requiring her to use HER OWN action to use the tiger's attacks and abilities, and giving her a bonus action to use it for utility purposes OR - Stop whining, let her run it like an NPC, slowing combat and beefing up the opposition.
Any input on this would be appreciated. Thank you.
The other option is to give fewer or less powerful magic items she might use for a while, as necessary to approximately balance the party. Basically, consider the Familiar itself to be the equivalent of a magic item, and go from there. You'll have to 'feel it out', so to speak, to make sure you don't overcompensate, but it shouldn't be a problem.
Tiger form is just flavor and give it the stats of a cat. I just don’t think familiars are intended to act in a way that is being suggested. It’s not like a beastmaster ranger. But if you really wanted it to be I’d use a 1/8 or 1/4 beast stat block. Or you just have to deal with it lol.
Pact of the chain: Additionally, when you take the Attack action, you can forgo one of your own attacks to allow your familiar to make one attack with its reaction.
Find familiar spell: Your familiar acts independently of you, but it always obeys your commands. In combat, it rolls its own initiative and acts on its own turn. A familiar can't attack, but it can take other actions as normal.
I wouldn't worry too much because of the limitations where familiars can't attack, so the Tiger would be a lot less than your player thinks because it's attacks aren't as effective as a warlock's attacks are. But I would probably say no anyway and tell him that he can have a Panther if he wants. But that's just what I'd do in my campaign that I'm running.
The point of a familiar is to have a minor little play thing that serves you. It sounds more like they want a permanent conjure type spell. (Something that they could possibly even get later anyways)
I let my players "re-skin" the look of familiars all the time but I just remind them to run them how the rules are written before they get too carried away. Once they are higher level and they can start summoning big baddies with their other spells it wont be a big deal anymore for them either way.
Others have a great idea of just re-skinning something that’s already permitted RAW and calling it a tiger. A familiar isn’t actually an animal, it’s a spirit in the shape of an animal. Maybe this one thinks it’s much more of a badass than it actually is, so it projects the image of a tiger when it’s really just an orange tabby. And don’t let it be size large, she’ll try and use it as a mount. Also, Pact of chain already gets some really interesting upgraded choices for a familiar. Tigers are cool, but I’d take an imp or pseudodragon any day.
In a larger sense, it’s not ruining her fun to tell her she needs to play by the rules, same as everyone else. Tiger familiars aren’t a thing for a reason. if a level 1 Druid wanted to wild shape into a T-Rex, or a level 1 paladin said the sword he got from his grandpa was actually a holy avenger, you’d say no.
But, now that she’s made her desire known, I might try and let her work toward it as a character goal. Like maybe she’s heard of an ancient ritual that allows your familiar to take other, more powerful forms. Then after a few levels, when a thing like a tiger wouldn’t be so OP, she can find it.
As for the player getting an extra turn. I’m playing in a campaign right now where someone else has a familiar, it’s not a big deal. It’s actually not a deal at all. Unless your players are really, oddly bitter, they won’t begrudge her a little toy. It’s a class feature, people don’t get mad at fighters for having extra attacks. And familiars are pretty fragile, so during fights they just stay away. And their scouting helps the whole party.
She could pick and Imp or Quasit as well, both are CR1, I'm not sure its anymore overpowered. It's up to the DM at the end of the day though, as its not a 'normal' familiar.
I probably wouldn't care about a Tiger, given the way pact of the chain works (it allows sacrificing one attack to let the familiar attack -- not multiattack), the tiger's +5/1d10+3 attack is hardly better than an Imp's +5/1d4+3 and 3d6 poison (targets that aren't immune or highly resistant to poison will almost always take more damage from the imp). The tiger can use pounce, but it can't actually use the bonus action attack, just the knockdown. There are other CR 1 creatures that would be more of a balance worry.
However, if something does seem like a balance issue, charging an eldritch invocation and/or a spell slot would do the job. For example:
Empower Familiar (requires Pact of the Chain) Your familiar can be a more potent creature; choose any CR 1 or lower form that fits your patron (generally a celestial, fey, fiend, or beast). In addition, when you cause your familiar to appear, you may spend a spell slot to cause it to appear as a stronger form (CR up to the level of spell slot you spend).
She's not asking for a familiar, she's asking for a beast companion, that she has the ability to see through it's eyes. The simplest thing is to just say No.
I understand her thinking, she is saying it's a CR 1, same as the Imp. But the CR 1 familiars were all chosen to have abilities to act as a spy, not good at combat. Notice their size and all but the psuedo d. have invisibility. This makes them useful even at high levels. A Tiger is useless as a spy. It is overpowered at combat in low levels and underpowered at high levels. What, you think when you are 10th level and facing Demons that a claw for 1d8+3 and a Strength save, DC 13 to make someone prone is going to do anything?
So what she is likely to do is to take the Tiger for the low level boost, then as soon as the pounce stops being useful, switch it out for one of the normal familiars.
How to give her what she wants. I would offer her the following. Make her take a feat (as Pantagruel666 suggests). But I would limit her to Beasts as other creatures have special abilities that will screw with game balance, and give it a boost at higher levels.
Beast Familiar Feat
Pre requisite Pact of the Chain.
Lets you take any CR 1or lower beast as a Familiar.
Once per Charisma bonus / short rest, you can, as a bonus action, grant your Beast Familiar a bonus to it's AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls for 1 round, equal to your proficiency bonus. This bonus starts when you use the bonus action and ends when your next turn begins. If you die before then, the familiar vanishes.
Once / short rest, you can grant your Beast Familiar temp hitpoints equal to twice your warlock level. These last for an hour.
The fact it takes a feat equalizes the power boost at low levels. The bonuses make it usable in combat, even at high levels. The fact she gets more than a normal tiger should make her feel better about taking a feat.
She's not asking for a familiar, she's asking for a beast companion, that she has the ability to see through it's eyes. The simplest thing is to just say No.
I understand her thinking, she is saying it's a CR 1, same as the Imp. But the CR 1 familiars were all chosen to have abilities to act as a spy, not good at combat. Notice their size and all but the psuedo d. have invisibility. This makes them useful even at high levels. A Tiger is useless as a spy. It is overpowered at combat in low levels and underpowered at high levels. What, you think when you are 10th level and facing Demons that a claw for 1d8+3 and a Strength save, DC 13 to make someone prone is going to do anything?
So what she is likely to do is to take the Tiger for the low level boost, then as soon as the pounce stops being useful, switch it out for one of the normal familiars.
Or.... she just really wants a tiger as a pet/companion, and it's not even remotely about min/maxing a character, and is seeking to tweak the existing rules of her class to allow it.
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My warlock wants to take a tiger as her familiar at lvl 3 (Pact of the Chain). I'm worried this will overpower the party. This is a Large CR 1 creature, whereas the Find Familiar spell is clearly written to give the player smaller, more utility based options.
My concerns:
- I don't want to ruin her fun by saying, "You can't have a tiger, but you can have a cat"
- I don't want to ruin her fun by making this a DM controlled creature
- If I let her run it like an NPC, she will effectively get an extra turn forever which doesn't seem fair for my other players
- If I let her run it like an NPC, it will slow down combat because I will have to beef up my encounters with more/stronger creatures
My options as I see them:
- Let her use the tiger as a "magical weapon" requiring her to use HER OWN action to use the tiger's attacks and abilities, and giving her a bonus action to use it for utility purposes
OR
- Stop whining, let her run it like an NPC, slowing combat and beefing up the opposition.
Any input on this would be appreciated. Thank you.
The other option is to give fewer or less powerful magic items she might use for a while, as necessary to approximately balance the party. Basically, consider the Familiar itself to be the equivalent of a magic item, and go from there. You'll have to 'feel it out', so to speak, to make sure you don't overcompensate, but it shouldn't be a problem.
Tiger form is just flavor and give it the stats of a cat. I just don’t think familiars are intended to act in a way that is being suggested. It’s not like a beastmaster ranger. But if you really wanted it to be I’d use a 1/8 or 1/4 beast stat block. Or you just have to deal with it lol.
Pact of the chain: Additionally, when you take the Attack action, you can forgo one of your own attacks to allow your familiar to make one attack with its reaction.
Find familiar spell: Your familiar acts independently of you, but it always obeys your commands. In combat, it rolls its own initiative and acts on its own turn. A familiar can't attack, but it can take other actions as normal.
I wouldn't worry too much because of the limitations where familiars can't attack, so the Tiger would be a lot less than your player thinks because it's attacks aren't as effective as a warlock's attacks are. But I would probably say no anyway and tell him that he can have a Panther if he wants. But that's just what I'd do in my campaign that I'm running.
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The point of a familiar is to have a minor little play thing that serves you. It sounds more like they want a permanent conjure type spell. (Something that they could possibly even get later anyways)
I let my players "re-skin" the look of familiars all the time but I just remind them to run them how the rules are written before they get too carried away. Once they are higher level and they can start summoning big baddies with their other spells it wont be a big deal anymore for them either way.
Others have a great idea of just re-skinning something that’s already permitted RAW and calling it a tiger. A familiar isn’t actually an animal, it’s a spirit in the shape of an animal. Maybe this one thinks it’s much more of a badass than it actually is, so it projects the image of a tiger when it’s really just an orange tabby.
And don’t let it be size large, she’ll try and use it as a mount.
Also, Pact of chain already gets some really interesting upgraded choices for a familiar. Tigers are cool, but I’d take an imp or pseudodragon any day.
In a larger sense, it’s not ruining her fun to tell her she needs to play by the rules, same as everyone else. Tiger familiars aren’t a thing for a reason. if a level 1 Druid wanted to wild shape into a T-Rex, or a level 1 paladin said the sword he got from his grandpa was actually a holy avenger, you’d say no.
But, now that she’s made her desire known, I might try and let her work toward it as a character goal. Like maybe she’s heard of an ancient ritual that allows your familiar to take other, more powerful forms. Then after a few levels, when a thing like a tiger wouldn’t be so OP, she can find it.
As for the player getting an extra turn. I’m playing in a campaign right now where someone else has a familiar, it’s not a big deal. It’s actually not a deal at all. Unless your players are really, oddly bitter, they won’t begrudge her a little toy. It’s a class feature, people don’t get mad at fighters for having extra attacks. And familiars are pretty fragile, so during fights they just stay away. And their scouting helps the whole party.
She could pick and Imp or Quasit as well, both are CR1, I'm not sure its anymore overpowered. It's up to the DM at the end of the day though, as its not a 'normal' familiar.
I probably wouldn't care about a Tiger, given the way pact of the chain works (it allows sacrificing one attack to let the familiar attack -- not multiattack), the tiger's +5/1d10+3 attack is hardly better than an Imp's +5/1d4+3 and 3d6 poison (targets that aren't immune or highly resistant to poison will almost always take more damage from the imp). The tiger can use pounce, but it can't actually use the bonus action attack, just the knockdown. There are other CR 1 creatures that would be more of a balance worry.
However, if something does seem like a balance issue, charging an eldritch invocation and/or a spell slot would do the job. For example:
Empower Familiar (requires Pact of the Chain)
Your familiar can be a more potent creature; choose any CR 1 or lower form that fits your patron (generally a celestial, fey, fiend, or beast). In addition, when you cause your familiar to appear, you may spend a spell slot to cause it to appear as a stronger form (CR up to the level of spell slot you spend).
She's not asking for a familiar, she's asking for a beast companion, that she has the ability to see through it's eyes. The simplest thing is to just say No.
I understand her thinking, she is saying it's a CR 1, same as the Imp. But the CR 1 familiars were all chosen to have abilities to act as a spy, not good at combat. Notice their size and all but the psuedo d. have invisibility. This makes them useful even at high levels. A Tiger is useless as a spy. It is overpowered at combat in low levels and underpowered at high levels. What, you think when you are 10th level and facing Demons that a claw for 1d8+3 and a Strength save, DC 13 to make someone prone is going to do anything?
So what she is likely to do is to take the Tiger for the low level boost, then as soon as the pounce stops being useful, switch it out for one of the normal familiars.
How to give her what she wants. I would offer her the following. Make her take a feat (as Pantagruel666 suggests). But I would limit her to Beasts as other creatures have special abilities that will screw with game balance, and give it a boost at higher levels.
Beast Familiar Feat
Pre requisite Pact of the Chain.
The fact it takes a feat equalizes the power boost at low levels. The bonuses make it usable in combat, even at high levels. The fact she gets more than a normal tiger should make her feel better about taking a feat.
Or.... she just really wants a tiger as a pet/companion, and it's not even remotely about min/maxing a character, and is seeking to tweak the existing rules of her class to allow it.