I would very much appreciate any thoughts input on this encounter I’m intending to run as part of HotDQ find I’m always a little unsure if I’m handling stealth correctly. HotDQ Caravan nearing the Trollclaw ford the only viable crossing point of the Winding Water. The caravan has been shadowed by goblins of the Dire Troll warlord Grubb who has prepared an ambush at the ford.
PC NPC Caravan actions - Perception/passive perception checks - to know the caravan is being shadowed by goblins days before they reach the ford. to notice the Ambushers at the ford - leading to possible PC countermeasure action otherwise ambush occurs when Caravan is halfway across the ford…
Caravan PC NPC scout passive perception wis (15) Goblin shadowers - Dex 14 (+2) Stealth (+6) Dire troll - Dex 15 (+2) Four armed Troll - Dex 13 (+1) Troll - Dex 13 (+1) Goblin Shadowing lightly obscured moderate foliage (disadvantage -5 on wis passive perception) so Goblins roll d20+6 must beat scout passive perception wis (15) -5 to remain hidden/unnoticed Same situation to notice ambush location as the trolls remain in heavily obscured area (blinded) auto fail for passive perception check until goblins spot the caravan… Ambush Goblins firing arrows and trolls throwing rocks, trolls have the Rock action of a cyclops. Since they are throwing at long range, they have disadvantage on their attacks… stolen from -encounter-of-the-week-trollclaw-terrors. Targeting The caravan has some 10 wagons + number of travelers mounted and on foot. Hit points for a wagon 100hp? 10% PC specific wagon is targeted Thank you for any replies thoughts input
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“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
PC NPC Caravan actions - Perception/passive perception checks - to know the caravan is being shadowed by goblins days before they reach the ford. to notice the Ambushers at the ford - leading to possible PC countermeasure action otherwise ambush occurs when Caravan is halfway across the ford…
Caravan PC NPC scout passive perception wis (15) Goblin shadowers - Dex 14 (+2) Stealth (+6) Dire troll - Dex 15 (+2) Four armed Troll - Dex 13 (+1) Troll - Dex 13 (+1) Goblin Shadowing lightly obscured moderate foliage (disadvantage -5 on wis passive perception) so Goblins roll d20+6 must beat scout passive perception wis (15) -5 to remain hidden/unnoticed.
Same situation to notice ambush location as the trolls remain in heavily obscured area (blinded) auto fail for passive perception check until goblins spot the caravan…
Looks good so far.
Ambush Goblins firing arrows and trolls throwing rocks, trolls have the Rock action of a cyclops. Since they are throwing at long range, they have disadvantage on their attacks… stolen from -encounter-of-the-week-trollclaw-terrors.
Ambush Goblins would have advantage on first arrow fired from each position undetected by the caravan. Trolls throwing rocks might have a straight roll on the first throw as being an unseen attacker might grant them advantage to cancel the range disadvantage.
Targeting
The caravan has some 10 wagons + number of travelers mounted and on foot. Hit points for a wagon 100hp? 10% PC specific wagon is targeted Thank you for any replies thoughts input
As you have discovered, there is no clearly available listing for wagon. However if you take a look at Objects in the DMG (Ch. 8 - Runing the Game), you might apply and AC of 15 and 27 HP for a Large (10' x 10') wooden cart with some manner of resilience built into it. There are some suggestions for how to manage larger objects just following the HP table listed.
As for your monster tactics at the ambush site, how are they stopping the caravan in the "kill zone" of their ambush? Diable a cart, kill a horse, shove boulders down a hill to block the path, use Ewok-style swinging tree hammers to bash something off the road? Maybe the goblins have set up the Impregnable Fortress of Dib?
Second, I might suggest that if the caravan makes no notice of the band tracking them, the first round of combat may fall under the surprise rule. Meaning that the ambush trigger and first round of attacks by any unseen attackers be left unanswered by the caravan. If operated optimally, there should be some dead NPCs and horses by the end of the surprise round. You could be well on your way to TPK-ville if you focus too much "attention" on your PCs.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Advantage for unseen attacker and surprise attack round... LOL! yes there was a point to all this sneaking and creeping wasn't their... can't believe I missed that one thank you
AC 15 makes sense 27 HP seems dreadfully low... I guess that could be a disabled threshold ie broken wheel that is in time reparable.
Re-Monster tactics - Dire Troll warlord Grubb doesn't put all that much thought into his ambushes the fact that he usually makes them at the Trollclaw ford has more to do with nice rocks to throw.... "Grubb like throw rocks" then any insight that this might be the place that near everything has to come to safely cross the Winding Water the general plan is throw stuff at the caravan till one of the wagons stops then let the others go... in a higher sense the aim is to subsist off the caravans not totally destroy them. Crossing the ford forces the caravan slow down to a crawl I envisage the ford as being very shallow but very wide with large boulders and rocks that the wagon drivers need to be mindful to avoid... in essence difficult terrain
Something I meant to ask the GoblinNimble Escape. The goblin can take the Disengage or Hide action as a bonus action on each of its turns. how's that going to figure into the ambush will they basically always have advantage on their attacks and disadvantage to getting hit with a AC bonus +2 for half cover from ranged attacks
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
Re: Goblin - If your ranged attackers are moving from cover to cover, and hiding between attacks, then yes...and attacks against unseen targets have disadvantage. So, advantage on attacks made by them, disadvantage on attacks against them, and AC bonus for whichever level of cover they have while hiding behind objects like trees and rocks.
Gets worse when you put the Troll opposite your ranged goblins, and attack the caravan from up close while the NPCs and PCs hunker behind disabled carts to avoid the pointy rain.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Ok So just reached the initial stage of the setup for this encounter... and Our group of 5 Goblin skulers rolled rather well for their stealth checks D20+6 19,17,26,24 and 8 Our PC's best passive Perception is 15 and 16 so they notice the 8
I'm thinking the PC's could now if they choose to actively search with a skill check Perception (wis) against those stealth checks of the 5 Goblin skulers rolled
Think I'm on the right track handling this but then start to get muddled with who's -5 due to advantage being partial cover... errr well thanks for any feedback thoughts replies
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
Well That went wonderfully close... glad I opted for 60 hp per wagon as that CyclopsRock. Ranged Weapon Attack:+9 to hit, range 30/120 ft., one target. Hit: 28 (4d10 + 6) bludgeoning damage. I'd given the Trolls was DEADLY accurate even with disadvantage at over 30 ft
which with a +9 to hit really should have been obvious I guess but I totally underestimated it, think a +7 to hit might have been more appropriate in this situation...
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
By the sounds of it your encounter went very well. I hope all enjoyed it!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Yes thanks @Kaavel they did enjoy it... was a nice 3 hour online theater of the mind session starting with them noticing the shadowing Goblin's debating on what to do, deciding to grab one... some nice tense sneaky stealth... then social skills RP of interrogating the Goblin for useful info... deliberations of what to do with the info they'd gotten... and Finally the onslaught and pulling out a glorious victory by a gnat's whisker... yeah we all had fun
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
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Ambush at the Trollclaw ford
I would very much appreciate any thoughts input on this encounter I’m intending to run as part of HotDQ find I’m always a little unsure if I’m handling stealth correctly.
HotDQ Caravan nearing the Trollclaw ford the only viable crossing point of the Winding Water.
The caravan has been shadowed by goblins of the Dire Troll warlord Grubb who has prepared an ambush at the ford.
PC NPC Caravan actions - Perception/passive perception checks -
to know the caravan is being shadowed by goblins days before they reach the ford.
to notice the Ambushers at the ford - leading to possible PC countermeasure action otherwise ambush occurs when Caravan is halfway across the ford…
Caravan PC NPC scout passive perception wis (15)
Goblin shadowers - Dex 14 (+2) Stealth (+6)
Dire troll - Dex 15 (+2)
Four armed Troll - Dex 13 (+1)
Troll - Dex 13 (+1)
Goblin Shadowing lightly obscured moderate foliage (disadvantage -5 on wis passive perception) so Goblins roll d20+6 must beat scout passive perception wis (15) -5 to remain hidden/unnoticed
Same situation to notice ambush location as the trolls remain in heavily obscured area (blinded) auto fail for passive perception check until goblins spot the caravan…
Ambush Goblins firing arrows and trolls throwing rocks, trolls have the Rock action of a cyclops. Since they are throwing at long range, they have disadvantage on their attacks… stolen from -encounter-of-the-week-trollclaw-terrors.
Targeting
The caravan has some 10 wagons + number of travelers mounted and on foot. Hit points for a wagon 100hp? 10% PC specific wagon is targeted
Thank you for any replies thoughts input
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
Looks good so far.
Ambush Goblins would have advantage on first arrow fired from each position undetected by the caravan. Trolls throwing rocks might have a straight roll on the first throw as being an unseen attacker might grant them advantage to cancel the range disadvantage.
As you have discovered, there is no clearly available listing for wagon. However if you take a look at Objects in the DMG (Ch. 8 - Runing the Game), you might apply and AC of 15 and 27 HP for a Large (10' x 10') wooden cart with some manner of resilience built into it. There are some suggestions for how to manage larger objects just following the HP table listed.
As for your monster tactics at the ambush site, how are they stopping the caravan in the "kill zone" of their ambush? Diable a cart, kill a horse, shove boulders down a hill to block the path, use Ewok-style swinging tree hammers to bash something off the road? Maybe the goblins have set up the Impregnable Fortress of Dib?
Second, I might suggest that if the caravan makes no notice of the band tracking them, the first round of combat may fall under the surprise rule. Meaning that the ambush trigger and first round of attacks by any unseen attackers be left unanswered by the caravan. If operated optimally, there should be some dead NPCs and horses by the end of the surprise round. You could be well on your way to TPK-ville if you focus too much "attention" on your PCs.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Thank you Kaavel for your detailed reply
Advantage for unseen attacker and surprise attack round... LOL! yes there was a point to all this sneaking and creeping wasn't their... can't believe I missed that one thank you
AC 15 makes sense 27 HP seems dreadfully low... I guess that could be a disabled threshold ie broken wheel that is in time reparable.
Re-Monster tactics - Dire Troll warlord Grubb doesn't put all that much thought into his ambushes the fact that he usually makes them at the Trollclaw ford has more to do with nice rocks to throw.... "Grubb like throw rocks" then any insight that this might be the place that near everything has to come to safely cross the Winding Water
the general plan is throw stuff at the caravan till one of the wagons stops then let the others go... in a higher sense the aim is to subsist off the caravans not totally destroy them.
Crossing the ford forces the caravan slow down to a crawl I envisage the ford as being very shallow but very wide with large boulders and rocks that the wagon drivers need to be mindful to avoid... in essence difficult terrain
Something I meant to ask the Goblin Nimble Escape. The goblin can take the Disengage or Hide action as a bonus action on each of its turns. how's that going to figure into the ambush will they basically always have advantage on their attacks and disadvantage to getting hit with a AC bonus +2 for half cover from ranged attacks
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
Re: Goblin - If your ranged attackers are moving from cover to cover, and hiding between attacks, then yes...and attacks against unseen targets have disadvantage. So, advantage on attacks made by them, disadvantage on attacks against them, and AC bonus for whichever level of cover they have while hiding behind objects like trees and rocks.
Gets worse when you put the Troll opposite your ranged goblins, and attack the caravan from up close while the NPCs and PCs hunker behind disabled carts to avoid the pointy rain.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Ok So just reached the initial stage of the setup for this encounter...
and Our group of 5 Goblin skulers rolled rather well for their stealth checks D20+6 19,17,26,24 and 8
Our PC's best passive Perception is 15 and 16 so they notice the 8
I'm thinking the PC's could now if they choose to actively search with a skill check Perception (wis) against those stealth checks of the 5 Goblin skulers rolled
Think I'm on the right track handling this but then start to get muddled with who's -5 due to advantage being partial cover... errr
well thanks for any feedback thoughts replies
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
Well That went wonderfully close... glad I opted for 60 hp per wagon as that Cyclops Rock. Ranged Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, range 30/120 ft., one target. Hit: 28 (4d10 + 6) bludgeoning damage. I'd given the Trolls was DEADLY accurate even with disadvantage at over 30 ft
which with a +9 to hit really should have been obvious I guess but I totally underestimated it, think a +7 to hit might have been more appropriate in this situation...
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
By the sounds of it your encounter went very well. I hope all enjoyed it!
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Yes thanks @Kaavel they did enjoy it... was a nice 3 hour online theater of the mind session starting with them noticing the shadowing Goblin's debating on what to do, deciding to grab one... some nice tense sneaky stealth... then social skills RP of interrogating the Goblin for useful info... deliberations of what to do with the info they'd gotten... and Finally the onslaught and pulling out a glorious victory by a gnat's whisker... yeah we all had fun
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again