What level is the paladin character and how much work have they put in to further the ideals of their deity? If its just some low level nobody who hasn't done much yet, maybe a cute scene where the sun breaks through the clouds or the wind blows just so, granting the character inspiration here or there, and certainly no direct interventions. If this is some 10+ Level champion of the religion that needs support before going in to an encounter that may change the fate of a country or tip the balance in the war of good and evil, then sure, send in a divine messenger or have the god's presence be fully realized for a scene or two. Don't ever have the deity solve the problem for the player. That's not what gods do. It's mortals' jobs to solve the problems of the gods.
EDIT: Maybe, grant them a charm from the list of Charms in the DMG for the encounter? I personally like the Charm of Heroism.
I wouldn't be allowing much in the way of outright intervention - the Paladin is supposed to be an agent of the God - he or she is supposed to be the one doing; they are the intervention in the situation.
As for guidance - you can absolutely use this, as a DM, to nudge the party, if you wish.
Cryptic signs are good to give a nudge, without much suspense destroying detail - notably odd occurrences in nature work well for this: A crow leading the Paladin on, cryptic runes forming in the ashes of last night's camp fire, earth tremors, etc.
I've also used visions and dreams to good effect - although I use these sparingly - and I use a lot of allegorical imagery which are hints, but not quite totally clear, unless the Player is really on top of their game, and catches all the hints. Usually, they can put it all together after the fact :)
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A lot depends on the level as well as your style of campaign. Are the gods very active in your gaming world? For early levels Paladins and Priests are following their strictures that they learned early on. As they level up they may get exposed to differences, or see where perhaps some of their teachings may not actually be in harmony with what their deity wants. As they approach higher levels and begin to really impact the world, the gods may take more notice.
Echoing more of what Vedex said, I also use visions and dreams some, but rarely. They are normally a precursor to divine displeasure. I use dreams and visions a lot more for warlocks (particularly old god ones).
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"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
I agree with matching the signs and visions to the style / flavor of your world.
Remember that under 5e, Paladins are powered by Faith and Belief, not necessarily by a God; it's possible to have an atheist Paladin totally committed to an ideology ( Justice, or Bushido, maybe ) in which case you'd have no possibility of intervention or signs.
However, it sounds like you have a Paladin of a particular god here.
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Why not offer intervention indirectly through more developed NPC devotees of the deity in question? A young paladin may seek guidance from his god and receive it through a priest of the same god at the temple where he is praying for guidance. Did the priest overhear him praying? Or did the god send the priest to help him? Let the player decide :)
Also, Vedexent's last post made me picture a literal Social Justice Warrior.
Also, there is a cantrip called guidance. Paladins don't normally get cantrips, but you might want to spot him this one if it is appropriate to the story and his situation. Higher level spells along the same lines are Augury, commune, and divination. Read over those spells and consider their level and what they do. Then if you choose to have the deity offer help to the player, you will have some references to guide you in providing divine assistance as well as the power associated with accomplishing those tasks.
If this character is below third level, I feel like there should be no contact whatsoever. If they’re third-fifth level, I usually grant the occasional favor. The situation has to be REALLY dire, and the paladin has to pray for the intervention to happen. The paladin will have to pray for at least a round. It’s not any huge intervention, maybe if someone gets their sword knocked out of their hand, and they’re at like, one hit point, then the sword will come back with a few bonuses for two or three rounds. If someone has two failed death saving throws and no one with any way to heal them is within thirty feet, then the god will stabilize them. If the character is from sixth-tenth level, the god will be willing to do more things. Throw out a spell slot the paladin or someone in the party when they shouldn’t have any more, maybe heal someone using Cure Wounds, things like that. The paladin will have to use their action and half of their movement, but still. At levels 11-20, the god will offer direct intervention once per every three weeks.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, clerics have a specific mechanic for using the Channel Divinity to get a *chance* at their deity responding to them directly. I therefore wouldn't give a Paladin any direct diety intervention as it would overshadow the cleric ability big time.
As others have said, dreams, cryptic portents, feelings, a chill breeze, all good ways for when you want there to be some response.
I have a paladin in my game that often calls out to his diety for advice and intervention. Almost always the response is silence, which is totally fine. He's just RPing his character and doesn't need a response from a busy deity everytime.
Very omniscient and vague. The only interaction my players had with a god (beyond getting healing from a cleric) was when the elf died, and I let him be resurrected as a cleric of Corellon. I described it as him seeing a constantly changing figure before him (describe the god in question, Corellon doesn't have a set form, so I had him being very amorphous), holding out a hand (?), offering something. When the elf took it, he was resurrected.
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"What do you mean I get disadvantage on persuasion?"
I don't know, Sneet, maybe because your argument is "Submit and become our pet"?
It will depend on you as a dm and the player. As a player, I want to have a lot of interaction with my deity but the DMs I have played under...aren't so much on the bandwagon with the idea. However, when I am the DM, my pantheons are heavily involved (one is angelic based and one uses Ancient Egyptian, Greek, Norse and Roman pantheons). I'm also a heavy role player compared to some of my friends so I encourage RPing when I DM (I had to intercede after 45 minutes one time in order to get the all-Bard one-shot moving...its the first time this group of friends actually role played longer than 10 minutes).
I would just encourage you to talk to this paladin player (or your DM if you are the player) to clarify expectations. As the characters level up, the gods will have more interactions. Just as any PC will build a relationship with any NPC, the player will need to build a relationship and try to get the attentions of their deity. Drop that as a hint (in game, it could be an old acolyte who says, "I've been praying for years, and Bahamut is still silent. Maybe he will hear your prayers." So, if your player starts praying each time before a long rest, when they level up you can reward the player with a dream of Bahamut, etc.) Dreams and visions are always solid options! It can be the visit of an NPC (Like the previously mentioned old acolyte). Clerics are the easiest to play up their interactions with a god (especially after reaching level 10 and they have "divine intervention"). It's a little bit more effort with the paladins since they are more like zealot jarheads.
The key is communicating with your player out of game to find out what they are looking for and then providing those opportunities. A deity is just an "all-powerful" NPC who may or may not deign their presence on a being who is beneath them (emotionally distant gods are less likely to show up than those emotionally invested in their followers).
I agree with Vedexent. Paladin's ARE the intervention. What is the Paladin doing asking the god to take care of things for him/her? You have the golden power of the god/goddess -- go use it.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Agree with the "Paladins are the intervention", but I am also tempered by the Deeds of Paksenarrion Dorthansdottir. It was few and far between... and cryptic... but there are times for visions and portents that the player will not understand until much later. It can be difficult to use as it is easy to try to heavy hand the players into a certain path. Works better if it is all personal. I also like dreamscapes and admit to being influenced by Matt Mercer in this regard. There is a nuance to it, but if you really understand your world and where the players fit in, then you can craft out influences affecting them from beyond the Prime Material plane. If you play the long game well enough... you'll give your players chills as some of those come to fruition...
As for the Cleric's Divine Intervention... it is way more powerful than just a vision or dream. They can, with your permission and creativity, directly affect the world around them in time of need. And I would treat augury and other cleric spells differently than the Paladin's Vision Quest type revelations. For the cleric, add more feelings and emotions. For the Paladin, you want a martial tone in most cases, unless they need softening... or have sinned and need to seek atonement...
So, just looking on tips on how you play deities. Especially for a paladin.
My PC paladin is constantly seeking guidance and wanting intervention. What are some ways you guys would play that off?
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
What level is the paladin character and how much work have they put in to further the ideals of their deity? If its just some low level nobody who hasn't done much yet, maybe a cute scene where the sun breaks through the clouds or the wind blows just so, granting the character inspiration here or there, and certainly no direct interventions. If this is some 10+ Level champion of the religion that needs support before going in to an encounter that may change the fate of a country or tip the balance in the war of good and evil, then sure, send in a divine messenger or have the god's presence be fully realized for a scene or two. Don't ever have the deity solve the problem for the player. That's not what gods do. It's mortals' jobs to solve the problems of the gods.
EDIT: Maybe, grant them a charm from the list of Charms in the DMG for the encounter? I personally like the Charm of Heroism.
I wouldn't be allowing much in the way of outright intervention - the Paladin is supposed to be an agent of the God - he or she is supposed to be the one doing; they are the intervention in the situation.
As for guidance - you can absolutely use this, as a DM, to nudge the party, if you wish.
Cryptic signs are good to give a nudge, without much suspense destroying detail - notably odd occurrences in nature work well for this: A crow leading the Paladin on, cryptic runes forming in the ashes of last night's camp fire, earth tremors, etc.
I've also used visions and dreams to good effect - although I use these sparingly - and I use a lot of allegorical imagery which are hints, but not quite totally clear, unless the Player is really on top of their game, and catches all the hints. Usually, they can put it all together after the fact :)
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
A lot depends on the level as well as your style of campaign. Are the gods very active in your gaming world? For early levels Paladins and Priests are following their strictures that they learned early on. As they level up they may get exposed to differences, or see where perhaps some of their teachings may not actually be in harmony with what their deity wants. As they approach higher levels and begin to really impact the world, the gods may take more notice.
Echoing more of what Vedex said, I also use visions and dreams some, but rarely. They are normally a precursor to divine displeasure. I use dreams and visions a lot more for warlocks (particularly old god ones).
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
I agree with matching the signs and visions to the style / flavor of your world.
Remember that under 5e, Paladins are powered by Faith and Belief, not necessarily by a God; it's possible to have an atheist Paladin totally committed to an ideology ( Justice, or Bushido, maybe ) in which case you'd have no possibility of intervention or signs.
However, it sounds like you have a Paladin of a particular god here.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Why not offer intervention indirectly through more developed NPC devotees of the deity in question? A young paladin may seek guidance from his god and receive it through a priest of the same god at the temple where he is praying for guidance. Did the priest overhear him praying? Or did the god send the priest to help him? Let the player decide :)
Also, Vedexent's last post made me picture a literal Social Justice Warrior.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
He's first time player, paladin first level.
Thank you!
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Thank you
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Also, there is a cantrip called guidance. Paladins don't normally get cantrips, but you might want to spot him this one if it is appropriate to the story and his situation. Higher level spells along the same lines are Augury, commune, and divination. Read over those spells and consider their level and what they do. Then if you choose to have the deity offer help to the player, you will have some references to guide you in providing divine assistance as well as the power associated with accomplishing those tasks.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
THANK YOU!!!! :)
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
If this character is below third level, I feel like there should be no contact whatsoever. If they’re third-fifth level, I usually grant the occasional favor. The situation has to be REALLY dire, and the paladin has to pray for the intervention to happen. The paladin will have to pray for at least a round. It’s not any huge intervention, maybe if someone gets their sword knocked out of their hand, and they’re at like, one hit point, then the sword will come back with a few bonuses for two or three rounds. If someone has two failed death saving throws and no one with any way to heal them is within thirty feet, then the god will stabilize them. If the character is from sixth-tenth level, the god will be willing to do more things. Throw out a spell slot the paladin or someone in the party when they shouldn’t have any more, maybe heal someone using Cure Wounds, things like that. The paladin will have to use their action and half of their movement, but still. At levels 11-20, the god will offer direct intervention once per every three weeks.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, clerics have a specific mechanic for using the Channel Divinity to get a *chance* at their deity responding to them directly. I therefore wouldn't give a Paladin any direct diety intervention as it would overshadow the cleric ability big time.
As others have said, dreams, cryptic portents, feelings, a chill breeze, all good ways for when you want there to be some response.
I have a paladin in my game that often calls out to his diety for advice and intervention. Almost always the response is silence, which is totally fine. He's just RPing his character and doesn't need a response from a busy deity everytime.
Very omniscient and vague. The only interaction my players had with a god (beyond getting healing from a cleric) was when the elf died, and I let him be resurrected as a cleric of Corellon. I described it as him seeing a constantly changing figure before him (describe the god in question, Corellon doesn't have a set form, so I had him being very amorphous), holding out a hand (?), offering something. When the elf took it, he was resurrected.
"What do you mean I get disadvantage on persuasion?"
I don't know, Sneet, maybe because your argument is "Submit and become our pet"?
-Actual conversation in a game.
It will depend on you as a dm and the player. As a player, I want to have a lot of interaction with my deity but the DMs I have played under...aren't so much on the bandwagon with the idea. However, when I am the DM, my pantheons are heavily involved (one is angelic based and one uses Ancient Egyptian, Greek, Norse and Roman pantheons). I'm also a heavy role player compared to some of my friends so I encourage RPing when I DM (I had to intercede after 45 minutes one time in order to get the all-Bard one-shot moving...its the first time this group of friends actually role played longer than 10 minutes).
I would just encourage you to talk to this paladin player (or your DM if you are the player) to clarify expectations. As the characters level up, the gods will have more interactions. Just as any PC will build a relationship with any NPC, the player will need to build a relationship and try to get the attentions of their deity. Drop that as a hint (in game, it could be an old acolyte who says, "I've been praying for years, and Bahamut is still silent. Maybe he will hear your prayers." So, if your player starts praying each time before a long rest, when they level up you can reward the player with a dream of Bahamut, etc.) Dreams and visions are always solid options! It can be the visit of an NPC (Like the previously mentioned old acolyte). Clerics are the easiest to play up their interactions with a god (especially after reaching level 10 and they have "divine intervention"). It's a little bit more effort with the paladins since they are more like zealot jarheads.
The key is communicating with your player out of game to find out what they are looking for and then providing those opportunities. A deity is just an "all-powerful" NPC who may or may not deign their presence on a being who is beneath them (emotionally distant gods are less likely to show up than those emotionally invested in their followers).
I agree with Vedexent. Paladin's ARE the intervention. What is the Paladin doing asking the god to take care of things for him/her? You have the golden power of the god/goddess -- go use it.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Agree with the "Paladins are the intervention", but I am also tempered by the Deeds of Paksenarrion Dorthansdottir. It was few and far between... and cryptic... but there are times for visions and portents that the player will not understand until much later. It can be difficult to use as it is easy to try to heavy hand the players into a certain path. Works better if it is all personal. I also like dreamscapes and admit to being influenced by Matt Mercer in this regard. There is a nuance to it, but if you really understand your world and where the players fit in, then you can craft out influences affecting them from beyond the Prime Material plane. If you play the long game well enough... you'll give your players chills as some of those come to fruition...
As for the Cleric's Divine Intervention... it is way more powerful than just a vision or dream. They can, with your permission and creativity, directly affect the world around them in time of need. And I would treat augury and other cleric spells differently than the Paladin's Vision Quest type revelations. For the cleric, add more feelings and emotions. For the Paladin, you want a martial tone in most cases, unless they need softening... or have sinned and need to seek atonement...