I've recently started my adventure into the glorious world of DMing with a small group of people. So far my players have had fun and we're a little over twenty sessions into the game by now. However, something I did not expect happened about seven or eight sessions ago. The party was trying to clear up a murder and were staying at the scene of the crime just to see if it would yield results. Because of this, they encountered a thief who was sent by the murderer to clear out some evidence they had forgotten. This thief, I had worked out for myself, was just some poor freelancer who took whatever money that the murderer picked up and paid. The idea was that either the party kills the thief, believing them to be the murderer or the party spares and pays off the thief and gets info from them and everyone could move on.
However, because of course, this is not what happened. The party did spare the thief and then, instead of doing any of the stuff I had expected they ask questions over questions that had nothing to do with the quest they were wrapped up in at all. I go along and make up stuff on the fly, and then the party does what I should probably have expected them to do but didn't: They just adopt the damn thief!
Since then the thief has been travelling with them. I had originally designed the thief to be a 4th level - which was the level of the party - Rogue, even used point buy generation for stats because I felt like it, so I luckily didn't have to scramble to adjust them to be a makeshift party member. The players have treated this character as though they were just another PC, as if a fifth player had joined a little later on in the campaign. The thing is, ever since the thief's adoption she has been somewhat eclipsing the rest of the party when it comes to combat, there was one particular encounter where the dice willed that the entire party turned into incompetent bafoons and none could hit an enemy to save their life, meanwhile the thief they adopted was sneak attacking people from afar with a crossbow left, right and centre almost carrying the entire encounter on her back.
My players have not complained about this, but I am concerned that they just don't want to say anything about it if it does annoy them. I did ask and it was brushed off, but I can't help but feel a little uneasy about it. How have you dealt with accidental DMPC? Does this even count as one? Or am I just overreacting a little and concerning myself a little too much with something that is perfectly fine and doesn't need fixing because it isn't broken?
I think that the supporting NPC is not an DMPC unless you make it so. You should always design encounters accounting players only. If NPC has taken glory of battle you should get rid of him ASAP.
I regularly use supporting NPCs, but always when players want it, and they never steal the spotlight. Always let the players get the spotlight, its story about them!
I don't think it's a DMPC based on the description you gave, since it's more the party encouraging them to stay. Still, I think it would make sense to find a reason for them to leave the party. Like maybe there's a personal reason that they want to go off on their own. Alternatively... if you really want them to hate a bad guy, have them kill your thief in a situation where the party's not able to assist directly. Either way, if the party was bothered by it I think you asking them about it would have gotten them to open up about the problem. It's possible they're happy to have someone along to pick locks and support the party in combat. I play with a DM who regularly includes NPCs that travel with the party, and in general the party is happy to have them around.
Quote from TransmorpherDDS>>if you really want them to hate a bad guy, have them kill your thief in a situation where the party's not able to assist directly.
That! Let them love him a while and then kill him if you want to get rid of him. Use it as storytelling reason.
Another option if you want to keep the thief around (and depending on how you feel about fudging rolls) perhaps fudge some rolls if the thief is eclipsing the party in an encounter? Or perhaps have someone curse the unlucky thief, or they pick up a cursed item, so some keys stats drop down and make a slightly less effective party member.
On a side note, this reminded me of an interesting encounter last time I played, where I ended up with my baddie-de-jour, my two friendly NPCs, and the two monsters all one after another in the initiative order. I think the players had a good laugh at me talking to myself.... before they absolutely wrecked the monsters. Hopefully gives you guys a giggle too.
I think that the supporting NPC is not an DMPC unless you make it so. You should always design encounters accounting players only. If NPC has taken glory of battle you should get rid of him ASAP.
I regularly use supporting NPCs, but always when players want it, and they never steal the spotlight. Always let the players get the spotlight, its story about them!
Considering that this thief is a full-blown PC, encounters should be created for a party of 5, not 4. On top of that, XP should be split 5 ways. (Unless you're doing milestone) Even if it was just a stat block "monster" NPC it should still be included in encounter prep.
If the dice were making her uber in an encounter or two, but she is even level/ability to the party, be patient: as any D&D player will tell you, the dice giveth, and the dice taketh away. And oh boy, do they taketh away, sometimes.
I definitely agree, up the encounter level for the extra NPC. Heck, I did that with my current party and all they have extra with them is the beast companion of a missing ranger they are trying to find. Because in combat, that thing can soak damage almost as well as a PC, and it can do almost as much damage as a PC. The beast companion, like your thief, was the star of the show in one encounter (one of the players even commented on it). Nobody got mad... they were thrilled that the giant weasel did some butt-kicking. In other battles, I couldn't roll above a 5 for him to hit, and he almost got killed.
As I say, the dice giveth, and the dice taketh away.
An NPC who the PCs adopt as a mascot and want to keep around is not a DMPC. It's just an NPC. Lots of parties have NPCs for a time, maybe even a long time. It's only a DMPC when you consider it to be your character, your member of the party, and you treat it as such. You don't seem to be doing that here.
A couple of suggestions for you:
If you want to make your life simpler, you could follow Colville's advice (I can't link the video because I don't remember which one it is -- probably one of his Chain campaign diaries). He says that running a full character is too much work as a DM, so he makes up PCs that are simplified with monster stat blocks instead of full character sheets. If the NPC is a thief, he'd pick a few signature special abilities from the thief class (like sneak attack of course, and one or two others), give it appropriate proficiencies, etc... but not give it the full set of abilities because he doesn't want to deal with that. So you could do this for her.
Also, if you don't want to keep playing her, give her something else to do and have her leave the party for a while and come back for occasional guest spots. Might be tough to do if they are very attached to her now though.
Hello there,
I've recently started my adventure into the glorious world of DMing with a small group of people. So far my players have had fun and we're a little over twenty sessions into the game by now. However, something I did not expect happened about seven or eight sessions ago. The party was trying to clear up a murder and were staying at the scene of the crime just to see if it would yield results. Because of this, they encountered a thief who was sent by the murderer to clear out some evidence they had forgotten. This thief, I had worked out for myself, was just some poor freelancer who took whatever money that the murderer picked up and paid. The idea was that either the party kills the thief, believing them to be the murderer or the party spares and pays off the thief and gets info from them and everyone could move on.
However, because of course, this is not what happened. The party did spare the thief and then, instead of doing any of the stuff I had expected they ask questions over questions that had nothing to do with the quest they were wrapped up in at all. I go along and make up stuff on the fly, and then the party does what I should probably have expected them to do but didn't: They just adopt the damn thief!
Since then the thief has been travelling with them. I had originally designed the thief to be a 4th level - which was the level of the party - Rogue, even used point buy generation for stats because I felt like it, so I luckily didn't have to scramble to adjust them to be a makeshift party member. The players have treated this character as though they were just another PC, as if a fifth player had joined a little later on in the campaign. The thing is, ever since the thief's adoption she has been somewhat eclipsing the rest of the party when it comes to combat, there was one particular encounter where the dice willed that the entire party turned into incompetent bafoons and none could hit an enemy to save their life, meanwhile the thief they adopted was sneak attacking people from afar with a crossbow left, right and centre almost carrying the entire encounter on her back.
My players have not complained about this, but I am concerned that they just don't want to say anything about it if it does annoy them. I did ask and it was brushed off, but I can't help but feel a little uneasy about it. How have you dealt with accidental DMPC? Does this even count as one? Or am I just overreacting a little and concerning myself a little too much with something that is perfectly fine and doesn't need fixing because it isn't broken?
I think that the supporting NPC is not an DMPC unless you make it so. You should always design encounters accounting players only. If NPC has taken glory of battle you should get rid of him ASAP.
I regularly use supporting NPCs, but always when players want it, and they never steal the spotlight. Always let the players get the spotlight, its story about them!
I don't think it's a DMPC based on the description you gave, since it's more the party encouraging them to stay. Still, I think it would make sense to find a reason for them to leave the party. Like maybe there's a personal reason that they want to go off on their own. Alternatively... if you really want them to hate a bad guy, have them kill your thief in a situation where the party's not able to assist directly. Either way, if the party was bothered by it I think you asking them about it would have gotten them to open up about the problem. It's possible they're happy to have someone along to pick locks and support the party in combat. I play with a DM who regularly includes NPCs that travel with the party, and in general the party is happy to have them around.
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That! Let them love him a while and then kill him if you want to get rid of him. Use it as storytelling reason.
Another option if you want to keep the thief around (and depending on how you feel about fudging rolls) perhaps fudge some rolls if the thief is eclipsing the party in an encounter? Or perhaps have someone curse the unlucky thief, or they pick up a cursed item, so some keys stats drop down and make a slightly less effective party member.
On a side note, this reminded me of an interesting encounter last time I played, where I ended up with my baddie-de-jour, my two friendly NPCs, and the two monsters all one after another in the initiative order. I think the players had a good laugh at me talking to myself.... before they absolutely wrecked the monsters. Hopefully gives you guys a giggle too.
Considering that this thief is a full-blown PC, encounters should be created for a party of 5, not 4. On top of that, XP should be split 5 ways. (Unless you're doing milestone) Even if it was just a stat block "monster" NPC it should still be included in encounter prep.
It's not a DMPC.
If the dice were making her uber in an encounter or two, but she is even level/ability to the party, be patient: as any D&D player will tell you, the dice giveth, and the dice taketh away. And oh boy, do they taketh away, sometimes.
I definitely agree, up the encounter level for the extra NPC. Heck, I did that with my current party and all they have extra with them is the beast companion of a missing ranger they are trying to find. Because in combat, that thing can soak damage almost as well as a PC, and it can do almost as much damage as a PC. The beast companion, like your thief, was the star of the show in one encounter (one of the players even commented on it). Nobody got mad... they were thrilled that the giant weasel did some butt-kicking. In other battles, I couldn't roll above a 5 for him to hit, and he almost got killed.
As I say, the dice giveth, and the dice taketh away.
An NPC who the PCs adopt as a mascot and want to keep around is not a DMPC. It's just an NPC. Lots of parties have NPCs for a time, maybe even a long time. It's only a DMPC when you consider it to be your character, your member of the party, and you treat it as such. You don't seem to be doing that here.
A couple of suggestions for you:
If you want to make your life simpler, you could follow Colville's advice (I can't link the video because I don't remember which one it is -- probably one of his Chain campaign diaries). He says that running a full character is too much work as a DM, so he makes up PCs that are simplified with monster stat blocks instead of full character sheets. If the NPC is a thief, he'd pick a few signature special abilities from the thief class (like sneak attack of course, and one or two others), give it appropriate proficiencies, etc... but not give it the full set of abilities because he doesn't want to deal with that. So you could do this for her.
Also, if you don't want to keep playing her, give her something else to do and have her leave the party for a while and come back for occasional guest spots. Might be tough to do if they are very attached to her now though.
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