I am a first time DM, about to run Dragon of Icespire Peak for my two boys, ages 11 and 13. I just have a couple questions about how to make the experience smoother and more enjoyable for all.
My first question relates to difficulty. It’s just the two of them playing, and it looks like some of the content could be pretty rough for a party of two new players, especially at low level. Looks like a very real possibility that their very first fight at lv. 1 could be against an ochre jelly or a manticore. I know there are ways to alleviate these (bribe the manticore, ranged attacks and mobility vs. ochre jelly) but it still seems like a steep learning curve for two brand new players. Would prefer their first combat encounter to be a success, but if they charge in and attack either of these I don’t think it will go well.
I have seen a couple other threads and discussion about how to mitigate this, like replace the ochre jelly with a gray ooze (although even a gray ooze could easily one shot a lv. 1 character, and the corrosive property could be nasty) so I will definitely be tweaking it as we go.
I think I will also have a NPC tag along, just to keep these goofballs alive. I want it to be a support type character, so as not to take any of the spotlight. My boys are playing a half-elf paladin and a halfling rogue. I am thinking a useful NPC would be a bard or possibly a cleric, but am open to suggestion. Also, for those who have run this adventure, will the difficulty be doable for two PCs and one NPC, without a ton of tweaking? I want to avoid adding more than one NPC. I considered letting them run a sidekick but honestly I think that will be too much for them to keep track of, for their first time playing.
My second question has to do with my younger son who is playing a rogue. He originally said he wanted to “do a lot of stealing.” I could see the makings of a chaotic evil crime spree which would cause a lot of conflict, both in-game with the lawful good paladin, and also a dissatisfied table where the players come in with different expectations. I decided to address this right away, and we had a good discussion about what we expect from the game, and how to have fun without disrupting someone else’s fun, which thankfully he was receptive to.
I also explained that while attempting to steal everything in sight is possible, actions also have consequences just as in real life. So if he steals from the local shopkeeper and gets caught, he could find himself in jail or even banished from the town. This gave him pause (thankfully) and we started talking about the difference between stealing from a local villager who is just trying to feed his family, and stealing an artifact of power from an evil being (like Bilbo stealing from Smaug). He seemed very interested in this. So I am trying to think of some good plot hooks within the setting where he can use his thieving skills for “good.” I was thinking of trying to get him to steal some important item from Cryovain at some point in the early to middle part of the adventure, which would anger the dragon and help set up the conflict. I am also looking for other opportunities to let him steal things throughout, which will make the game fun for him, not cause (too much) conflict with our L/G paladin, and also fit within the story. Any recommendations for how to work this in would be welcome.
Use some of the sidekicks. And the NPC. With only 2 players are encounters are going to be adjusted down to a very weak encounter. Look at page 82 of the DMG to double check the encounters. Or go old school and let them run 2 pcs each.
Good Plot hooks. Steal from cartoons. Jackie Chan's adventures is good one. So is the current Duck Tales.
Meanwhile CR is a pretty bad system for game balancing, it can be used as a rough estimate for balancing at least. So you could use this to lower enemy amounts to a proper challenge for the party.
Usually when I feel like a monster would be stronger than it is, then I up its CR on the calculator and when weaker I lower the CR on the calculator. So look at monster abilities and not just the CR before calculator use. Once players get a lot of magic items, maybe up their level on the calculator by like one.
For the manticore (which is a way too strong encounter for level 2s or ones) I’d say lower the number of attacks it has, and maybe have the ochre jelly visible to the players and make it clearly seem hostile as it moves slowly towards the players with goo like tendrils out so the players could know it’s hostile. (I recall the module having a “suddenly a monster appears!” When the players walk into the room with the jelly, and not the players seeing it when they see it. Overall a surprise attack (even if the jelly doesn’t get a free attack) will definitely put players at a disadvantage.
My players (3 x level 2) had no trouble with the ochre jellies. When the dwarves told them there was something inside that dripped acid on them, they just went in looking for trouble. It helps that the ranger has a passive Perception of 15. They did get a bit surprised after cleaving it with an axe, but they just muttered something about "Oh, that's like X in Minecraft" and kept on going. The second ochre jelly didn't get involved. Later they spotted that one too and pinged it from a distance; they'd done it considerable damage before it got close enough to strike back.
So I think the secret is just to ensure that the PCs have good information from the dwarves about what they're up against.
Include an NPC with some healing ability like healing word to get a character back up from a distance. (Bard or cleric might be best)
In addition, since the players are new, try to slip some hints into the game in terms of likely character knowledge. Although the players have probably never heard of an ooze or what threat it might pose ... the characters are likely to have at least heard stories of creatures like this and perhaps some ideas on how to deal with it. If there are particular tactics that will be very effective against particular monsters then you don't have to entirely leave it to inexperienced players to try to come up with an answer and likely die in the process. Let the players make use of some of the things that their characters likely know but they do not yet.
On the other hand, fighting the manticore is likely not a good idea - the characters would again know this - so see if you can present it in such a way that they can work it out diplomatically. There are definitely a few of the quests that may require diplomatic solutions or the party will TPK. The mine is a good example if your party lacks magical weapons for example - so perhaps present some of the content that gives access to magical weapons (e.g. the lighthouse on the coast) before hitting the mine.
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I am a first time DM, about to run Dragon of Icespire Peak for my two boys, ages 11 and 13. I just have a couple questions about how to make the experience smoother and more enjoyable for all.
My first question relates to difficulty. It’s just the two of them playing, and it looks like some of the content could be pretty rough for a party of two new players, especially at low level. Looks like a very real possibility that their very first fight at lv. 1 could be against an ochre jelly or a manticore. I know there are ways to alleviate these (bribe the manticore, ranged attacks and mobility vs. ochre jelly) but it still seems like a steep learning curve for two brand new players. Would prefer their first combat encounter to be a success, but if they charge in and attack either of these I don’t think it will go well.
I have seen a couple other threads and discussion about how to mitigate this, like replace the ochre jelly with a gray ooze (although even a gray ooze could easily one shot a lv. 1 character, and the corrosive property could be nasty) so I will definitely be tweaking it as we go.
I think I will also have a NPC tag along, just to keep these goofballs alive. I want it to be a support type character, so as not to take any of the spotlight. My boys are playing a half-elf paladin and a halfling rogue. I am thinking a useful NPC would be a bard or possibly a cleric, but am open to suggestion. Also, for those who have run this adventure, will the difficulty be doable for two PCs and one NPC, without a ton of tweaking? I want to avoid adding more than one NPC. I considered letting them run a sidekick but honestly I think that will be too much for them to keep track of, for their first time playing.
My second question has to do with my younger son who is playing a rogue. He originally said he wanted to “do a lot of stealing.” I could see the makings of a chaotic evil crime spree which would cause a lot of conflict, both in-game with the lawful good paladin, and also a dissatisfied table where the players come in with different expectations. I decided to address this right away, and we had a good discussion about what we expect from the game, and how to have fun without disrupting someone else’s fun, which thankfully he was receptive to.
I also explained that while attempting to steal everything in sight is possible, actions also have consequences just as in real life. So if he steals from the local shopkeeper and gets caught, he could find himself in jail or even banished from the town. This gave him pause (thankfully) and we started talking about the difference between stealing from a local villager who is just trying to feed his family, and stealing an artifact of power from an evil being (like Bilbo stealing from Smaug). He seemed very interested in this. So I am trying to think of some good plot hooks within the setting where he can use his thieving skills for “good.” I was thinking of trying to get him to steal some important item from Cryovain at some point in the early to middle part of the adventure, which would anger the dragon and help set up the conflict. I am also looking for other opportunities to let him steal things throughout, which will make the game fun for him, not cause (too much) conflict with our L/G paladin, and also fit within the story. Any recommendations for how to work this in would be welcome.
Thanks!
Use some of the sidekicks. And the NPC. With only 2 players are encounters are going to be adjusted down to a very weak encounter. Look at page 82 of the DMG to double check the encounters. Or go old school and let them run 2 pcs each.
Good Plot hooks. Steal from cartoons. Jackie Chan's adventures is good one. So is the current Duck Tales.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
Meanwhile CR is a pretty bad system for game balancing, it can be used as a rough estimate for balancing at least. So you could use this to lower enemy amounts to a proper challenge for the party.
I use this calculator to calculate CR: https://kastark.co.uk/rpgs/encounter-calculator-5th/
Usually when I feel like a monster would be stronger than it is, then I up its CR on the calculator and when weaker I lower the CR on the calculator. So look at monster abilities and not just the CR before calculator use.
Once players get a lot of magic items, maybe up their level on the calculator by like one.
For the manticore (which is a way too strong encounter for level 2s or ones) I’d say lower the number of attacks it has, and maybe have the ochre jelly visible to the players and make it clearly seem hostile as it moves slowly towards the players with goo like tendrils out so the players could know it’s hostile. (I recall the module having a “suddenly a monster appears!” When the players walk into the room with the jelly, and not the players seeing it when they see it. Overall a surprise attack (even if the jelly doesn’t get a free attack) will definitely put players at a disadvantage.
My players (3 x level 2) had no trouble with the ochre jellies. When the dwarves told them there was something inside that dripped acid on them, they just went in looking for trouble. It helps that the ranger has a passive Perception of 15. They did get a bit surprised after cleaving it with an axe, but they just muttered something about "Oh, that's like X in Minecraft" and kept on going. The second ochre jelly didn't get involved. Later they spotted that one too and pinged it from a distance; they'd done it considerable damage before it got close enough to strike back.
So I think the secret is just to ensure that the PCs have good information from the dwarves about what they're up against.
Thanks people for the responses. I appreciate it.
Include an NPC with some healing ability like healing word to get a character back up from a distance. (Bard or cleric might be best)
In addition, since the players are new, try to slip some hints into the game in terms of likely character knowledge. Although the players have probably never heard of an ooze or what threat it might pose ... the characters are likely to have at least heard stories of creatures like this and perhaps some ideas on how to deal with it. If there are particular tactics that will be very effective against particular monsters then you don't have to entirely leave it to inexperienced players to try to come up with an answer and likely die in the process. Let the players make use of some of the things that their characters likely know but they do not yet.
On the other hand, fighting the manticore is likely not a good idea - the characters would again know this - so see if you can present it in such a way that they can work it out diplomatically. There are definitely a few of the quests that may require diplomatic solutions or the party will TPK. The mine is a good example if your party lacks magical weapons for example - so perhaps present some of the content that gives access to magical weapons (e.g. the lighthouse on the coast) before hitting the mine.