I'm running Rime of the Frostmaiden, and I wanted to plan for the eventual TPK. Given the horror theme, I had an idea and I'd like to get more ideas to expand on it, should you be interested.
Okay, the basic concept. If the party is killed, when they die, everything fades to black. Maybe they have some vision, not sure yet. But then they all wake up about the same time, all wounds healed, like nothing ever happened. There is still signs of their battle, but nothing wrong with them and no enemies about. Eventually they make their way back to town, but everyone ignores them. They are in essence ...ghosts.
As they realize this, the look back at their path, and realize they left no trail. If they go back to where the battle took place, they see their own bodies, and anything else that might be going on. But they can't physically or verbally interact with anything.
My questions or request for ideas:
How might they eventually come back to life or physically manifest?
What odd happenings might occur while they are ghosts?
What visions, if any, might they have when they blackout/die?
Is this too cliché and/or are there any other good references in media or adventures for dealing with this?
First thing, make sure your players are okay with this. Maybe take out one of their characters earlier to see their reactions, but I did something similar to this and it ended with the disbandment of my gaming group, especially after they found I had planned for a TPK. Otherwise, coming back to life can happen with nearly any sufficiently powerful wizard or cleric. Maybe add another NPC into RotF to later resurrect them? Odd happenings as a ghost would depend on where they died. For example, if they died in Ythryn, they may end up with their bodies possessed by restless spirits but if they died in the middle of Bryn Shander, their bodies would likely be buried. Also, their spirits would pass to the Astral Plane and maybe they see some Gith or a Dreadnought. Visions should reference past events of the campaign and maybe tie-up hooks from their backstory or hinting at future dangers. Random idea, if they die in the open tundra, their bodies are turned into Coldlight Walkers with some unique abilities from the characters, and they have to fight them to get their old gear back or perhaps to force their spirit back into the body. I don't see this entire situation as being cliche, but numerous fiction has a similar scene where the character(s) die/almost die and have a vision, like in Harry Potter in the Train Station. Overall, this seems a good idea and I hope you have a great time with it.
Your "Ghosts" are basically under the influence of an Etherealness variant, so they would be vulnerable to everything that the Border Ethereal has to offer.
How might they eventually come back to life or physically manifest?
If they have actually become ghosts, then you could have them take on the Stat Block of a ghost once they've realized their situation.
Once able to manifest on the Material Plane, they can attempt to possess a humanoid and go through the process of resurrecting themselves the old fashioned way.
What odd happenings might occur while they are ghosts?
There are lots of Ethereal creatures that they might encounter. There could be a whole ethereal city to navigate.
There could be hundreds or thousands of other ghosts in the same situation, some bound to haunt, others driven insane, and the rest simply trying to "survive" by entertaining themselves.
The "Spirit Realm" can be a very active place.
What visions, if any, might they have when they blackout/die?
Hell if I know. The common tropes are "My life flashed before my eyes", or "the light at the end of the tunnel". The transition into death is an extremely significant point. Biologically, your body floods you with so many chemicals that "visions" could simply be hallucinations on steroids. Spiritually, passing through a "divine gate" could let you see the past, future, alternate timelines, literally anything.
Do you want the visions to be flavor, or a plot hook?
Is this to cliche and/or are there any other good references in media or adventures for dealing with this?
It's only cliche, if you make it cliche. Whatever you do, make it personal to your table and campaign. As long as it's not cookie cutter, "cliche" is irrelevant.
Or you could go full Bill and Teds Bogus Journey and have them beat Death in a game to be returned to the material plane, hah.
If everyone wanted to keep their first characters personalities after a TPK think it could be interesting, having a party of ghosts who need to possess bodies to finish their arduous tasks. The choice to pick between taking people who are weaker with lower saving throws against their possession, verses taking stronger people who might be better fitted for the job but might resist them. Plus it would be a bit of a moral dilemma for those lawful good types. I'm not sure the game is really built for this kind of thing, but you could make it work, perhaps.
Edit: Just going back to the 'beating Death' suggestion.. what might make more narrative sense for the group is as spirits they might encounter Talos or one of the other deities who has motivation to see the frostmaiden stopped. Perhaps the god sensed potential in these characters to put an end to the situation, and a deal could be struck between them. Add in some other elements to it, like they're all required to make sacrifices of their own to their savior, if you want it to feel weightier.
Would you have a single dead character come back as a ghost? Or is this just for a TPK? Are you intending to kill off the party to do this, or is this a backup plan in case they all die?
Personally, it would bother me a lot to make my character possess someone so I could keep playing the game. I guess I would opt out and roll a new character, or try to find another solution. But that's just me.
Other options: Could you have one NPC who could see them? Maybe someone in the village who was always having conversations into the air, but now the party sees he/she was interacting with ghosts all along? Said NPC could potentially lead them to someone who could fix the "death problem," for a price. Presumably the price is high, or the task set is difficult. Otherwise, everyone would go get resurrected.
Thanks all for your ideas and suggestion, some of them are very cool.
@RivaGrayEyes There is just a backup plan if the whole party TPKs, which is something I would never do on purpose. Does it does let me not have to worry about pulling punches or stressing over if the combat is the exact right balance.
The possession idea is interesting, but you are right, this is an interesting ethical choice. I would imagine it to only be a temporary things to possess someone to accomplish their goal of returning to their own bodies.
Laying the groundwork with an NPC who talks to ghosts is a great idea as well. Then they have somewhere to go. The resurrection cost is high as well, a 500gp diamond per person can be steep. Or perhaps, as you suggested, they can accomplish some task or a favor to Lathander perhaps. Hummm.
@syzygyeolith The possession idea is one I hadn't thought of. I wonder if it is too powerful, but it could be cool. I'd probably leave it to players to realize if they can do it at all. Humm. As for meeting another god or someone else opposed to Auril while ghosts, that might be a great way to motivate them towards a goal. I like it.
@Memnosyne There is so much fun to be had in the Ethereal plan I hadn't thought about. I was also beginning to imagine all the other ghosts they might find. I guess I could skip having a 'vision' when they die entirely to keep them in the mystery of thinking they haven't actually died yet.
@Yeenoghu9000 Gosh, that would be scary to watch their own bodies being buried. Or perhaps they find their bodies missing, and have to track them down before they can be resurrected.
If one person died, you could make them invisible, but able to interact with the world through a single spell like prestidigitation, mage hand, or even shape water (especially if you allowed them to melt ice/snow to use). And then eventually find an NPC who could communicate fully.
Those are really versatile spells, and a creative player could really have fun with it. Less boring than just waiting for everyone to resurrect them. Actually, my players would probably love this. I might just try it out if someone dies on me.
Hi all,
I'm running Rime of the Frostmaiden, and I wanted to plan for the eventual TPK. Given the horror theme, I had an idea and I'd like to get more ideas to expand on it, should you be interested.
Okay, the basic concept. If the party is killed, when they die, everything fades to black. Maybe they have some vision, not sure yet. But then they all wake up about the same time, all wounds healed, like nothing ever happened. There is still signs of their battle, but nothing wrong with them and no enemies about. Eventually they make their way back to town, but everyone ignores them. They are in essence ...ghosts.
As they realize this, the look back at their path, and realize they left no trail. If they go back to where the battle took place, they see their own bodies, and anything else that might be going on. But they can't physically or verbally interact with anything.
My questions or request for ideas:
Ideas welcome.
First thing, make sure your players are okay with this. Maybe take out one of their characters earlier to see their reactions, but I did something similar to this and it ended with the disbandment of my gaming group, especially after they found I had planned for a TPK. Otherwise, coming back to life can happen with nearly any sufficiently powerful wizard or cleric. Maybe add another NPC into RotF to later resurrect them? Odd happenings as a ghost would depend on where they died. For example, if they died in Ythryn, they may end up with their bodies possessed by restless spirits but if they died in the middle of Bryn Shander, their bodies would likely be buried. Also, their spirits would pass to the Astral Plane and maybe they see some Gith or a Dreadnought. Visions should reference past events of the campaign and maybe tie-up hooks from their backstory or hinting at future dangers. Random idea, if they die in the open tundra, their bodies are turned into Coldlight Walkers with some unique abilities from the characters, and they have to fight them to get their old gear back or perhaps to force their spirit back into the body. I don't see this entire situation as being cliche, but numerous fiction has a similar scene where the character(s) die/almost die and have a vision, like in Harry Potter in the Train Station. Overall, this seems a good idea and I hope you have a great time with it.
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Your "Ghosts" are basically under the influence of an Etherealness variant, so they would be vulnerable to everything that the Border Ethereal has to offer.
How might they eventually come back to life or physically manifest?
If they have actually become ghosts, then you could have them take on the Stat Block of a ghost once they've realized their situation.
Once able to manifest on the Material Plane, they can attempt to possess a humanoid and go through the process of resurrecting themselves the old fashioned way.
What odd happenings might occur while they are ghosts?
There are lots of Ethereal creatures that they might encounter. There could be a whole ethereal city to navigate.
There could be hundreds or thousands of other ghosts in the same situation, some bound to haunt, others driven insane, and the rest simply trying to "survive" by entertaining themselves.
The "Spirit Realm" can be a very active place.
What visions, if any, might they have when they blackout/die?
Hell if I know. The common tropes are "My life flashed before my eyes", or "the light at the end of the tunnel". The transition into death is an extremely significant point. Biologically, your body floods you with so many chemicals that "visions" could simply be hallucinations on steroids. Spiritually, passing through a "divine gate" could let you see the past, future, alternate timelines, literally anything.
Do you want the visions to be flavor, or a plot hook?
Is this to cliche and/or are there any other good references in media or adventures for dealing with this?
It's only cliche, if you make it cliche. Whatever you do, make it personal to your table and campaign. As long as it's not cookie cutter, "cliche" is irrelevant.
Or you could go full Bill and Teds Bogus Journey and have them beat Death in a game to be returned to the material plane, hah.
If everyone wanted to keep their first characters personalities after a TPK think it could be interesting, having a party of ghosts who need to possess bodies to finish their arduous tasks. The choice to pick between taking people who are weaker with lower saving throws against their possession, verses taking stronger people who might be better fitted for the job but might resist them. Plus it would be a bit of a moral dilemma for those lawful good types. I'm not sure the game is really built for this kind of thing, but you could make it work, perhaps.
Edit: Just going back to the 'beating Death' suggestion.. what might make more narrative sense for the group is as spirits they might encounter Talos or one of the other deities who has motivation to see the frostmaiden stopped. Perhaps the god sensed potential in these characters to put an end to the situation, and a deal could be struck between them. Add in some other elements to it, like they're all required to make sacrifices of their own to their savior, if you want it to feel weightier.
Would you have a single dead character come back as a ghost? Or is this just for a TPK? Are you intending to kill off the party to do this, or is this a backup plan in case they all die?
Personally, it would bother me a lot to make my character possess someone so I could keep playing the game. I guess I would opt out and roll a new character, or try to find another solution. But that's just me.
Other options: Could you have one NPC who could see them? Maybe someone in the village who was always having conversations into the air, but now the party sees he/she was interacting with ghosts all along? Said NPC could potentially lead them to someone who could fix the "death problem," for a price. Presumably the price is high, or the task set is difficult. Otherwise, everyone would go get resurrected.
Thanks all for your ideas and suggestion, some of them are very cool.
@RivaGrayEyes There is just a backup plan if the whole party TPKs, which is something I would never do on purpose. Does it does let me not have to worry about pulling punches or stressing over if the combat is the exact right balance.
The possession idea is interesting, but you are right, this is an interesting ethical choice. I would imagine it to only be a temporary things to possess someone to accomplish their goal of returning to their own bodies.
Laying the groundwork with an NPC who talks to ghosts is a great idea as well. Then they have somewhere to go. The resurrection cost is high as well, a 500gp diamond per person can be steep. Or perhaps, as you suggested, they can accomplish some task or a favor to Lathander perhaps. Hummm.
@syzygyeolith The possession idea is one I hadn't thought of. I wonder if it is too powerful, but it could be cool. I'd probably leave it to players to realize if they can do it at all. Humm. As for meeting another god or someone else opposed to Auril while ghosts, that might be a great way to motivate them towards a goal. I like it.
@Memnosyne There is so much fun to be had in the Ethereal plan I hadn't thought about. I was also beginning to imagine all the other ghosts they might find. I guess I could skip having a 'vision' when they die entirely to keep them in the mystery of thinking they haven't actually died yet.
@Yeenoghu9000 Gosh, that would be scary to watch their own bodies being buried. Or perhaps they find their bodies missing, and have to track them down before they can be resurrected.
If one person died, you could make them invisible, but able to interact with the world through a single spell like prestidigitation, mage hand, or even shape water (especially if you allowed them to melt ice/snow to use). And then eventually find an NPC who could communicate fully.
Those are really versatile spells, and a creative player could really have fun with it. Less boring than just waiting for everyone to resurrect them. Actually, my players would probably love this. I might just try it out if someone dies on me.