I am currently DMing a home-brew game for a group which meets up in person once a week, but after buying the RotFM adventure from I've been interested in running a second game with another group. Not having enough people I know interested in this however, I've been looking into running this campaign online with strangers (aka friends I haven't met yet?). While many of the things I've read have been somewhat informative, I still have several things I'd like to get some answers on.
What I have already: On DDB I'm a master tier member, and I've got most of the source books and the RotFM adventure (I also have the source books in physical copy, but oh well). I've got a pretty good understanding on how to use DDB, and use the encounter builder and character sheets in my current 'in-person' game. What I'd like help with:
How do most DMs go about forming a reliable group? I'm skeptical that of a group of 4 or 5 strangers you'll ever get everyone committing to turning up punctually to a weekly scheduled game, so I was wondering what most peoples experiences in that was. I'm also wary of personality clashes, and didn't know if it was common place for the DM to 'interview' potential players for a spot in the campaign. Lastly, as someone living in Australia, I've had a lot of trouble finding people in time-zones that suit my schedule, so I didn't know if there was a better place to look than forums.
Which VTT should I be looking into? I'm aware that Roll20 and Foundry are both very popular right now, though even after looking at some videos and trying to dummy about with the former, I find them to be confusing. What I don't want is to spend any unnecessary money on things I don't need, such as re-buying source books a third time, or subscriptions. I'd also like the VTT I go with to be simple to use for myself and my players, and time spent wasted on technical issues is just time wasted that could be in game.
How much extra work is there in prepping an online game vs IRL? I know that Foundry has some limited support in importing owned content from DDB, and that modules you buy on Roll20 will have at least some extra legwork done for you, but as far as I can tell I'll be spending a lot of time importing maps into the VTT myself, and drawing all the walls for the dynamic lighting and fog of war. I was also unsure how easy it was to import the maps over from here (and if its even allowed?).
Is expecting a VTT to 'Do It All' a waste of time? I've also wondered if it's worth the bother getting a VTT set up and working perfectly if I can just use the features on DDB and Discord which I already understand. All I really need a VTT for is to express to players where they are in relation to the environment, so I often doubt it's needed to have their character sheets and etc stored on those platforms. Is it reasonable/accepted from many players that we'll need multiple apps to run our game if I just find VTT's too complicated?
Lastly, and what I'm most interested in hearing: As a general experience for people who have run games online (particularly with strangers); did you find the experience was worthwhile? Am I better off just persisting with finding a second group to play in person?
I'm really eager to get a little more D&D happening in my week, so thanks for any insights in advance!
(also this is the second time I wrote this after the internet ate the first post, so you know I'm serious about it)
I only play online... I will try to give you some help but I can't answer some of these very effectively.
1. I formed my group of RL friends, so I can't help you there. If you don't have RL friends who want to game online with you, then you'll need other people to tell you how to find a good group.
2. Which VTT is really a matter of personal taste. I started with Astral, but although I like how it does maps, I don't like how they set up their database management -- it's ugly and clunky and not very robust. I then tried Foundry and I like it much better. But there is a learning curve and if you found R20 confusing, you will probably find Foundry more so. I don't think it's possible for you to use any VTT without spending time on technical issues. You are going to have to learn the ins and outs before the system becomes intuitive. We have been using foundry for 6 or 7 sessions now, and I am finally getting a real hang of it. But it was usable at its base right away.... just took a couple of tutorial videos to get things straight. If you see that kind of thing as "too much time wasted," then I don't think any VTT will make you happy. You can avoid VTTs if you go "theater of the mind" -- the main reason we use Foundry is for easy mapping.
3. There is a lot more prep for online, I have found. In person, I had very bare-bones maps (just drawn on graph paper) and our "battle map" was just a larger blank set of squares on which I would sketch out where things were in pencil. Online, you could do that (Foundry provides a mechanism), but I end up using map making programs like Dungeon Draft, which take a lot of time, although they produce pretty results. The main issue here is, again unless you go theater of the mind, if you want to have tokens ready for monsters, and monster stats ready in the VTT, you are going to have to import all that stuff and have it ready to go before hand. You cannot easily do it on the fly.
4. I started out with Zoom, Powerpoint sharing for maps, and DDB. You can do that. But IMO, using an all-in-one VTT like Foundry or R20 ends up saving massive amounts of work in the long run. Short run, there is a huge up-front investment. Long run... once you have it ready to go, everything is all done in ONE place (other than the voice/video chat, which Foundry can do, but for which we use Zoom instead). DDB's combat tracker is still not fully featured -- Foundry's is. DDB's online die rolling is just for flavor -- Foundry's can actually be used on-map for in-game stuff, rolling with advantage, comparing automatically against DC, etc. It is easier for my players, I think... and a lot easier for me. But again a lot depends on whether you want to use theater of the mind or tactical maps. With tactical maps, the VTT is the way to go (IMO). With theater of the mind, it is probably unnecessary.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I'm playing with my friends across a few states and after nearly 20 years of absence from playing D&D we decided to try online.
I'm using Roll20 and it took a few days playing around with the tool to get a feel of things but I'm using it as a barebones map and tokens tabletop.
To me it a lot more than a pencil and paper setup. For online I spend more of my time finding/making / developing maps for my game than actually planning out the bones for the adventure. I use https://2minutetabletop.com/ for a lot of my pre-made maps and I'm also looking into DungeonDraft for an actual tool to create nicer homebrew maps. Now keep in mind these 'pretty' maps are not necessary and are just that 'pretty' you can also use Roll20 and set up a blank map and use it as a battle map where you can use the freehand pencil tool to sketch out the room(s) as needed. I've done both and they work very will.
Getting into a VTT can be dangerous you need to know what your limit as to how much you want to commit to it. When I started learning Roll20 I fell into a deep, deep hole of 'Oh, this is cool! I need to learn how to do that! Wow, I can create my own random generated general store.' Soon I was so deep I never thought if I really needed to learn or perform certain activities because as it turns out my friends wanted to play D&D not to see what cool feature I coded upon a VTT. Keep in mind with VTT features and coding, just because you can do not mean it is needed for your game.
My recommendation is to start small, go with maps (pretty or blank map), and tokens see how it works out, and then explore to using other features as you feel is needed to add for the overall experience to the game.
I'm also looking into DungeonDraft for an actual tool to create nicer homebrew maps
DungeonDraft is awesome and is probably the best and most intuitive dungeon map maker. It has its limitations but it is made by the same guy who made WonderDraft and if nothing else he understands how to make user-friendly apps.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
1. I DM one campaign over Zoom and I joined one campaign as a player over Discord. For the one I DM, a bunch of my friends vaguely expressed interest in D&D when I mentioned I played so I set about recruiting people. Most of them agreed and I have six party members at this time. I used to run a lot of one-shots before so for anybody who was noncommittal, I offered them a one-shot one on one and it helped. The player campaign was actually recruited from the forums here. We did have a lot of people drop out, but a solid three players and the DM are sticking. The DM recently recruited one person whom another player knows IRL so he's more likely to stick around. I'd recommend starting with a group that's on the higher side if you recruit strangers to account for people stopping.
2/3. Both my games are very theater of the mind, so I can't help much here. Discord has the bot Avrae, which does rolls and uses the character sheets on DnD Beyond. It's great for situations like death savings throws so the DM can see what we rolled. We use quickly hand-drawn maps or maps borrowed from online sources that give permission to do so for the occasional situation, but I've found that as long as the DM works with the players it's usually okay to go without as long as you make it clear to your players from the start that's what they're getting. So if they're in a forest, the rogue should usually be able to hide behind a tree or something, for example. I do use some of the features on DnD Beyond to roll initiative for my NPCs or if I don't have enough of the right dice on hand. The encounter tracker is also helpful in a limited sense for gaging the difficulty of the encounter, although that can vary depending on how tactical your players are.
4. You can use as many apps as you want, but your players may not be as enthusiastic. It's especially pronounced with strangers, as there are less commitments to bind the group together initially. Generally, the more applications the players need to operate, the less likely a group will pull together.
Overall, I enjoy playing remotely and will definitely continue. I especially recommend a session zero so everyone is on the same page as to what the campaign is like. We try to stay in contact outside of the game. The one I know everyone uses a group message on our phones while the Discord game mainly shares memes in our server. It's a little more work than in person, but it's easier nowadays. The one thing I do have to highlight is being understanding if people are having Internet or computer troubles. Most people have some disruption every now and then, but it just gives us a break for a minute or two.
1) I currently DM two groups - one long time friends and the other is a bunch of folks I met playing Adventurers League at a local game store. Both are great groups of people. If you are looking to recruit online then I would start with some of the online communities through forums (there are lfg/lfp forums on DDB, Roll20, Fantasy Grounds and elsewhere) and on Discord servers. However, each online community can have a bit of a different feel to it so you need to spend some time reading/listening to see if the folks who hang out there are ones that sound like you would like to play games with. In addition, I have seen online DMs post looking for player ads and one key element is usually interviews and an application ... character concept, what sort of game you like to play (combat/rp/both .. good/evil .. pvp/no pvp (which can include in character arguments or differing viewpoints as part of the rp ... some folks like that and some don't) .. there is a wide range of both player and DM styles and you want a decent fit) and a bit about your real life background including reliability and availability for a regularly scheduled game. Pulling together a good group can be a challenge.
2) VTT is something of a personal choice. I ended up on Roll20 since I could try it out for free and because it uses a central server model so players can log into the game even when the DM isn't available. FG uses a private server model where the DM has to start the game as far as I know. However, I also purchased content on Roll20 rather than DDB since it makes the games easier to play on Roll20 with MUCH less prep required. I think you can make similar purchases on FG and there is Beyond20 which lets folks have their characters on DDB and use Roll20 but I am not sure of the capabilities.
However, there WILL be technical issues. It is a guarantee. Even with technically capable folks, playing online can have problems come up. Some folks will have a slow internet connection, others will run into issues with microphones or headsets, Discord will work for some but some may have issues. Roll20 may work best in firefox for one person and then another will find it works better in Chrome. You might end up having to clear a browser cache if something gets messed up. Even just playing theater of the mind using Zoom or whatever audio/video conferencing app can have problems. Once you get a few sessions in, most of the problems will be resolved, but things can still come up.
3) IF you purchase content for a VTT then online prep is FAR less than in person (assuming that the DM is a quick reader ... it is still good to read over things). The modules purchased for the VTT (and source books like the monster manual) give you more or less complete maps, encounters with monsters set up, monster character sheets that are clickable for attacks including casting spells. Without that, using a VTT involves far MORE prep since if you want to use the features you have to manually create the monster sheets, manually draw or import images for the maps, manually create tokens for your players and monsters. (I currently own DoIP (Essentials kit), TftYP, GSM, and CoS ... as well as PHB and MM on Roll20, some additional content I picked up for free, and a couple of modules I converted by hand by importing maps and dragging and dropping creatures from the MM). However, without the source materials it is a lot more work ... however, if you have DDB, I don't know how much support the Beyond20 plug in provides.
One advantage of VTT is that everything stays as you left it at the end of a session. All the tokens/monsters/game state are saved so it is very easy to just pick up where you leave off. In addition, the maps/grid display are often much more attractive than in person and features like dynamic lighting and fog of war make the mapping aspect of the game much more immersive.
4) Yes. Roll20 and FG can provide some automation. However, for Roll20, if you want amazing "do it all" functionality then you need to be a java programming wizard, have a pro subscription, write it all yourself or be willing to dig through other folks API scripts to find ones that really seem to help streamline your game play. Personally, I think it is cool but I just don't have the time to go through it all so I tend to use the base level of functionality which is generally sufficient plus some simple macros.
However, VTTs like Roll20 do provide a table top ... you can easily do grid based combat. You can relatively quickly sketch maps using the drawing tools and drop tokens for each character/creature onto the square or hexagonal mesh but the graphical capability of the VTT to utilize imported images and grid them for maps is one of the best looking features and probably the main reason (in my opinion) to use a VTT since it provides significant ambiance when adventuring. You can also have handouts and images to share with the players that help set a scene.
----
The bottom line for me is that a VTT+ audio (or video) app provides an acceptable play experience. The VTT mapping features are typically better than anything available in face to face play.
One thing to keep in mind is that internet connectivity varies and you may not be able to use a video conferencing app effectively since it may increase audio drop outs and similar issues due to band width limitations for some users (one of my players had to upgrade their home internet to even get reliable audio on Discord for example).
All this excellent advice has been really useful, thanks everyone.
For what its worth, I've decided against playing with people I don't know (since drop outs would really be a bummer), and to try and form a group from friends who've moved away from my city, by roping them in with the suggestion that D&D would help us stay in touch with each other :)
For now I'm going to probably go for what seems to be the simplest option, which to me would be to use Roll20 as the method I'll present complex maps when they are needed, but otherwise keeping things as 'theater of the mind' as much as possible. For character sheets I'll use DDB where I already own all the digital content, and I'll just have my players (who are new to the game) dice rolling here, since it adds all the modifiers and so on for them. I'll stick by the honour system, trusting them when they tell me they rolled above 17 for the 7th time in a row. For voice and video I'll probably go with discord, since it's so easy to make a server and create private text channels for each player to make notes in.
If I ever get the spare time to try and learn more about the VTTs out there, but that'll be a bonus, but not the goal.
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I am currently DMing a home-brew game for a group which meets up in person once a week, but after buying the RotFM adventure from I've been interested in running a second game with another group. Not having enough people I know interested in this however, I've been looking into running this campaign online with strangers (aka friends I haven't met yet?). While many of the things I've read have been somewhat informative, I still have several things I'd like to get some answers on.
What I have already: On DDB I'm a master tier member, and I've got most of the source books and the RotFM adventure (I also have the source books in physical copy, but oh well). I've got a pretty good understanding on how to use DDB, and use the encounter builder and character sheets in my current 'in-person' game. What I'd like help with:
Lastly, and what I'm most interested in hearing: As a general experience for people who have run games online (particularly with strangers); did you find the experience was worthwhile? Am I better off just persisting with finding a second group to play in person?
I'm really eager to get a little more D&D happening in my week, so thanks for any insights in advance!
(also this is the second time I wrote this after the internet ate the first post, so you know I'm serious about it)
I only play online... I will try to give you some help but I can't answer some of these very effectively.
1. I formed my group of RL friends, so I can't help you there. If you don't have RL friends who want to game online with you, then you'll need other people to tell you how to find a good group.
2. Which VTT is really a matter of personal taste. I started with Astral, but although I like how it does maps, I don't like how they set up their database management -- it's ugly and clunky and not very robust. I then tried Foundry and I like it much better. But there is a learning curve and if you found R20 confusing, you will probably find Foundry more so. I don't think it's possible for you to use any VTT without spending time on technical issues. You are going to have to learn the ins and outs before the system becomes intuitive. We have been using foundry for 6 or 7 sessions now, and I am finally getting a real hang of it. But it was usable at its base right away.... just took a couple of tutorial videos to get things straight. If you see that kind of thing as "too much time wasted," then I don't think any VTT will make you happy. You can avoid VTTs if you go "theater of the mind" -- the main reason we use Foundry is for easy mapping.
3. There is a lot more prep for online, I have found. In person, I had very bare-bones maps (just drawn on graph paper) and our "battle map" was just a larger blank set of squares on which I would sketch out where things were in pencil. Online, you could do that (Foundry provides a mechanism), but I end up using map making programs like Dungeon Draft, which take a lot of time, although they produce pretty results. The main issue here is, again unless you go theater of the mind, if you want to have tokens ready for monsters, and monster stats ready in the VTT, you are going to have to import all that stuff and have it ready to go before hand. You cannot easily do it on the fly.
4. I started out with Zoom, Powerpoint sharing for maps, and DDB. You can do that. But IMO, using an all-in-one VTT like Foundry or R20 ends up saving massive amounts of work in the long run. Short run, there is a huge up-front investment. Long run... once you have it ready to go, everything is all done in ONE place (other than the voice/video chat, which Foundry can do, but for which we use Zoom instead). DDB's combat tracker is still not fully featured -- Foundry's is. DDB's online die rolling is just for flavor -- Foundry's can actually be used on-map for in-game stuff, rolling with advantage, comparing automatically against DC, etc. It is easier for my players, I think... and a lot easier for me. But again a lot depends on whether you want to use theater of the mind or tactical maps. With tactical maps, the VTT is the way to go (IMO). With theater of the mind, it is probably unnecessary.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
i play both IRL and online.
1. like BIOwizard i play with RL friends, so i cant really help here sorry
2. i dont know what VTT stands for (lol) but is its the video chat platform, i use google meet, and zoom works pretty well.
3. defiantly more prep.
4. i personally would say its not worth it, but it depends on your play style.
hope that helped
I am an average mathematics enjoyer.
>Extended Signature<
My recommendation is to start small, go with maps (pretty or blank map), and tokens see how it works out, and then explore to using other features as you feel is needed to add for the overall experience to the game.
DungeonDraft is awesome and is probably the best and most intuitive dungeon map maker. It has its limitations but it is made by the same guy who made WonderDraft and if nothing else he understands how to make user-friendly apps.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
1. I DM one campaign over Zoom and I joined one campaign as a player over Discord. For the one I DM, a bunch of my friends vaguely expressed interest in D&D when I mentioned I played so I set about recruiting people. Most of them agreed and I have six party members at this time. I used to run a lot of one-shots before so for anybody who was noncommittal, I offered them a one-shot one on one and it helped. The player campaign was actually recruited from the forums here. We did have a lot of people drop out, but a solid three players and the DM are sticking. The DM recently recruited one person whom another player knows IRL so he's more likely to stick around. I'd recommend starting with a group that's on the higher side if you recruit strangers to account for people stopping.
2/3. Both my games are very theater of the mind, so I can't help much here. Discord has the bot Avrae, which does rolls and uses the character sheets on DnD Beyond. It's great for situations like death savings throws so the DM can see what we rolled. We use quickly hand-drawn maps or maps borrowed from online sources that give permission to do so for the occasional situation, but I've found that as long as the DM works with the players it's usually okay to go without as long as you make it clear to your players from the start that's what they're getting. So if they're in a forest, the rogue should usually be able to hide behind a tree or something, for example. I do use some of the features on DnD Beyond to roll initiative for my NPCs or if I don't have enough of the right dice on hand. The encounter tracker is also helpful in a limited sense for gaging the difficulty of the encounter, although that can vary depending on how tactical your players are.
4. You can use as many apps as you want, but your players may not be as enthusiastic. It's especially pronounced with strangers, as there are less commitments to bind the group together initially. Generally, the more applications the players need to operate, the less likely a group will pull together.
Overall, I enjoy playing remotely and will definitely continue. I especially recommend a session zero so everyone is on the same page as to what the campaign is like. We try to stay in contact outside of the game. The one I know everyone uses a group message on our phones while the Discord game mainly shares memes in our server. It's a little more work than in person, but it's easier nowadays. The one thing I do have to highlight is being understanding if people are having Internet or computer troubles. Most people have some disruption every now and then, but it just gives us a break for a minute or two.
I can give you my answers and see if they help.
1) I currently DM two groups - one long time friends and the other is a bunch of folks I met playing Adventurers League at a local game store. Both are great groups of people. If you are looking to recruit online then I would start with some of the online communities through forums (there are lfg/lfp forums on DDB, Roll20, Fantasy Grounds and elsewhere) and on Discord servers. However, each online community can have a bit of a different feel to it so you need to spend some time reading/listening to see if the folks who hang out there are ones that sound like you would like to play games with. In addition, I have seen online DMs post looking for player ads and one key element is usually interviews and an application ... character concept, what sort of game you like to play (combat/rp/both .. good/evil .. pvp/no pvp (which can include in character arguments or differing viewpoints as part of the rp ... some folks like that and some don't) .. there is a wide range of both player and DM styles and you want a decent fit) and a bit about your real life background including reliability and availability for a regularly scheduled game. Pulling together a good group can be a challenge.
2) VTT is something of a personal choice. I ended up on Roll20 since I could try it out for free and because it uses a central server model so players can log into the game even when the DM isn't available. FG uses a private server model where the DM has to start the game as far as I know. However, I also purchased content on Roll20 rather than DDB since it makes the games easier to play on Roll20 with MUCH less prep required. I think you can make similar purchases on FG and there is Beyond20 which lets folks have their characters on DDB and use Roll20 but I am not sure of the capabilities.
However, there WILL be technical issues. It is a guarantee. Even with technically capable folks, playing online can have problems come up. Some folks will have a slow internet connection, others will run into issues with microphones or headsets, Discord will work for some but some may have issues. Roll20 may work best in firefox for one person and then another will find it works better in Chrome. You might end up having to clear a browser cache if something gets messed up. Even just playing theater of the mind using Zoom or whatever audio/video conferencing app can have problems. Once you get a few sessions in, most of the problems will be resolved, but things can still come up.
3) IF you purchase content for a VTT then online prep is FAR less than in person (assuming that the DM is a quick reader ... it is still good to read over things). The modules purchased for the VTT (and source books like the monster manual) give you more or less complete maps, encounters with monsters set up, monster character sheets that are clickable for attacks including casting spells. Without that, using a VTT involves far MORE prep since if you want to use the features you have to manually create the monster sheets, manually draw or import images for the maps, manually create tokens for your players and monsters. (I currently own DoIP (Essentials kit), TftYP, GSM, and CoS ... as well as PHB and MM on Roll20, some additional content I picked up for free, and a couple of modules I converted by hand by importing maps and dragging and dropping creatures from the MM). However, without the source materials it is a lot more work ... however, if you have DDB, I don't know how much support the Beyond20 plug in provides.
One advantage of VTT is that everything stays as you left it at the end of a session. All the tokens/monsters/game state are saved so it is very easy to just pick up where you leave off. In addition, the maps/grid display are often much more attractive than in person and features like dynamic lighting and fog of war make the mapping aspect of the game much more immersive.
4) Yes. Roll20 and FG can provide some automation. However, for Roll20, if you want amazing "do it all" functionality then you need to be a java programming wizard, have a pro subscription, write it all yourself or be willing to dig through other folks API scripts to find ones that really seem to help streamline your game play. Personally, I think it is cool but I just don't have the time to go through it all so I tend to use the base level of functionality which is generally sufficient plus some simple macros.
However, VTTs like Roll20 do provide a table top ... you can easily do grid based combat. You can relatively quickly sketch maps using the drawing tools and drop tokens for each character/creature onto the square or hexagonal mesh but the graphical capability of the VTT to utilize imported images and grid them for maps is one of the best looking features and probably the main reason (in my opinion) to use a VTT since it provides significant ambiance when adventuring. You can also have handouts and images to share with the players that help set a scene.
----
The bottom line for me is that a VTT+ audio (or video) app provides an acceptable play experience. The VTT mapping features are typically better than anything available in face to face play.
One thing to keep in mind is that internet connectivity varies and you may not be able to use a video conferencing app effectively since it may increase audio drop outs and similar issues due to band width limitations for some users (one of my players had to upgrade their home internet to even get reliable audio on Discord for example).
All this excellent advice has been really useful, thanks everyone.
For what its worth, I've decided against playing with people I don't know (since drop outs would really be a bummer), and to try and form a group from friends who've moved away from my city, by roping them in with the suggestion that D&D would help us stay in touch with each other :)
For now I'm going to probably go for what seems to be the simplest option, which to me would be to use Roll20 as the method I'll present complex maps when they are needed, but otherwise keeping things as 'theater of the mind' as much as possible. For character sheets I'll use DDB where I already own all the digital content, and I'll just have my players (who are new to the game) dice rolling here, since it adds all the modifiers and so on for them. I'll stick by the honour system, trusting them when they tell me they rolled above 17 for the 7th time in a row. For voice and video I'll probably go with discord, since it's so easy to make a server and create private text channels for each player to make notes in.
If I ever get the spare time to try and learn more about the VTTs out there, but that'll be a bonus, but not the goal.