I was wondering if anyone had tinkered with the idea of a monster that had a number of bodies it controlled, and the power of those bodies would depend on the attention given to the bodies by the monster. So the monster has 10 Attentions it can give its minions, and it divvies out those Attentions on Initiative 20 or something like a lair action. Then the minions shift power and abilities based on the number of Attentions they receive for the round. Zero Attentions would be catatonic, and 10 would be the full focus of this monster is on one minion.
I think that would make the combat very very fluid and interesting. The weak enemy last round is suddenly hulked out and smashing us all, and the spellcaster who stunned half the party last round can barely get off a firebolt this round.
As the minions are killed, the Attention points stay the same, but the recipients of the points go down so that the monster can focus more and more on fewer targets as the party kills the minions.
I realize the strain that would put on the GM, but I like the mystery to the party with them not knowing why these creatures shift and change powers so much.
Has anyone put any thought into something like this, or would I be starting from ground zero?
First up, I'd work with 3-5 bodies to keep yourself sane.
Second, players hate it when monster hp just keeps changing every round. It makes them feel like they're wasting their attacks, and that their choices are less relevant. The players need to be able to make choices that allow them to make good decisions, not just be surprised that the seemingly feeble goblin is now dealing 10d10 fire damage. Making player choice relevant is the key aspect to making fights fun.
I would do something like this:
Three enemies that look identical, except that one is blue, one is green, one is red. Let's say that they are Hill giants.
In round 1, Red is Empowered and Blue is vulnerable
In round 2, Blue is empowered and green is vulnerable
In round 3, Green is empowered and Red is vulnerable
Repeat the rotation
When a creature is Empowered, it has Resistance to all forms of damage, its attacks deal an additional 2d8 radiant damage, has advantage on saving throws and ability checks, and removes all negative Conditions at the start of its turn.
When a creature is Vulnerable, it gains Vulnerability to all forms of damage, cannot use Multiattack, and has Disadvantage on all saving throws and ability checks.
I would certainly keep the HP constant throughout the encounter. AC, to hit and damage, and spells (if any) would be the major changes round to round. Also give narrative cues as to who is dangerous this round and who is being ignored.
I would like to try and incorporate more gradients into the battle than having a binary system like you mention. I think having the empowered/vulnerable status would be very good for an encounter, but it's not matching what's in my head.
That WOULD be very interesting tiers of attention though. If you get too little attention you're vulnerable and at a certain attention threshold, you're resistant. I need to buckle down and make a table. I'll get around to it... at some point. Probably. I'm very bad at doing things.
I would certainly keep the HP constant throughout the encounter. AC, to hit and damage, and spells (if any) would be the major changes round to round. Also give narrative cues as to who is dangerous this round and who is being ignored.
I would like to try and incorporate more gradients into the battle than having a binary system like you mention. I think having the empowered/vulnerable status would be very good for an encounter, but it's not matching what's in my head.
That WOULD be very interesting tiers of attention though. If you get too little attention you're vulnerable and at a certain attention threshold, you're resistant. I need to buckle down and make a table. I'll get around to it... at some point. Probably. I'm very bad at doing things.
The key aspect should be that the players can determine who they should, and shouldn't be, focusing on each round (they can work it out during the fight).
The difficulty I see for the villain choosing who to pay attention to and who not to is that whilst that might make sense in your head, it sounds difficult to translate into an actual combat where the changes in player ability and power seem to make sense to the players. Will they know what is happening? If not, then it will feel to them like the fight is entirely random and changing at will. This makes all of their decision making less impacting.
Fights in D&D 5e typically last no more than 4-6 turns per player. How will the players know that a character has been empowered through the villain's attention, and wasn't just able to cast meteor storms on them all the time? And does that time frame give sufficient time to keep switching enemy powers on a complex system? I'd also keep thinking about how complicated it could get.
This week I was playing in a game where the villain kept getting stronger the more we beat on him. This was good because it upped the threat level, making him attack faster and for more damage, but was still rewarding because we were breaking him down. I don't think it would have felt good if the minions had suddenly changed stats.
How about something like:
You have 5 similar monsters/npcs (all with the same stats)
At the beginning of a the first round of combat, two of them gain "attention" which needs a visual or audible effect to alert the players
At the start of the next turn, the 'attention' characters double their damage, and gain a defensive buff (e.g. hitting them inflicts 2d6 psychic damage). This is easy to track for both you and the players.
At the end of the monster's turn, the "attention" effect shifts towards two other creatures
At the start of the monsters' next turn, those with "attention" gain the damage and defensive buffs.
Something like that gives the players something to work with and to strategise around - do they focus the one that has the defensive debuff but who will deal more damage, or go for the weaker ones?
Another alternative might be to have five "attention" points, with each of 5 NPCs starting with one. Each attention point could give a different magical effect showing through a different colour (double damage, defensive buff, immunity to movement impairing, magical resistance, fires a lightning bolt every round). Then each turn, on Initiative count 20, you can move them to whichever minion you wish.
I think that those are some interesting ideas for fights to make them a bit different, and I might have a go with them myself! My main thoughts are to keep it simple mechanically, and to ensure that the players can react to it rather than just having to power through on dice rolls.
For a more passive puppet master, such as a big bad that has controlled minions doing something like a side mission or a mission that doesn't require his direct input, there could be a pool of attention for the group. As a minion dies its attention point could go to another minion until all of the boss' [mission attention] is on one minion. That way the first encounter Attention can be more easily tracked by the party, and when they get accustomed to it I can introduce the Attention shifting without a minion dying.
Fights in D&D 5e typically last no more than 4-6 turns per player. How will the players know that a character has been empowered through the villain's attention, and wasn't just able to cast meteor storms on them all the time? And does that time frame give sufficient time to keep switching enemy powers on a complex system? I'd also keep thinking about how complicated it could get.
I expect this type of battle to be recurring through the campaign. The players could be very confused in the beginning at the color-changing enemies the first time they fight but then grow more accustomed to it as the campaign carries on. And then when they crack the code it becomes less of an event to solve the mystery of these enemies and more of a straightforward encounter employing their tried and true strategies.
I think it should be mentioned to the thread that the puppet master I have in mind is a sort of multi-versal god, so them diverting their attention like this is narratively sound. I also think there should be a penalty to the minions who are lacking in attention.
I agree that the system would need to have a visual cue for attention bestowed or withdrawn. A problem I'm encountering in having 10 different attention points is conveying the level of attention like you mentioned. Maybe a DBZ-esque aura? Or an Arcana check to see the power flowing into them... getting easier and easier upon successes until they are familiar with it enough to just tell? It's not very narratively pleasing to hear "She has 7 attention points on her."
Attention Points
Effect
Visual Cue
1
Vulnerability to damage
2
Penalty to attack
3
Penalty to damage
4
Penalty to AC, Dex based
5
Base Monster Stats
6
Bonus to AC, Dex based
7
Bonus to attack
8
Access to special attack
9
Resistance to damage
10
Access to spells
A very rough table to convey my thoughts better. I certainly think it could be improved upon.
I have toyed with the idea for a puppet master type character, which controlled beings through brands on their wrists. Players would eventually learn to be wary of anyone with wrist brands - one brand means they are susceptible to control, and both brands means they are being directly controlled, with their consciousness stored by the evil puppeteer. If a player ended up with a wrist brand then they would have disadvantage against the "Charm Person" spell, and if they had 2 then they would automatically fail. It wouldn't be expected for all players to have 2 brands, if they managed that then not only would they have had to have been massively misbehaving, but I'd have to come up with a whole plot twist to continue the story!
The important thing is to have the players be able to see or hear some indication of the control - their eyes glow, or a magical link appears between them and the puppeteer.
I was wondering if anyone had tinkered with the idea of a monster that had a number of bodies it controlled, and the power of those bodies would depend on the attention given to the bodies by the monster. So the monster has 10 Attentions it can give its minions, and it divvies out those Attentions on Initiative 20 or something like a lair action. Then the minions shift power and abilities based on the number of Attentions they receive for the round. Zero Attentions would be catatonic, and 10 would be the full focus of this monster is on one minion.
I think that would make the combat very very fluid and interesting. The weak enemy last round is suddenly hulked out and smashing us all, and the spellcaster who stunned half the party last round can barely get off a firebolt this round.
As the minions are killed, the Attention points stay the same, but the recipients of the points go down so that the monster can focus more and more on fewer targets as the party kills the minions.
I realize the strain that would put on the GM, but I like the mystery to the party with them not knowing why these creatures shift and change powers so much.
Has anyone put any thought into something like this, or would I be starting from ground zero?
First up, I'd work with 3-5 bodies to keep yourself sane.
Second, players hate it when monster hp just keeps changing every round. It makes them feel like they're wasting their attacks, and that their choices are less relevant. The players need to be able to make choices that allow them to make good decisions, not just be surprised that the seemingly feeble goblin is now dealing 10d10 fire damage. Making player choice relevant is the key aspect to making fights fun.
I would do something like this:
I would certainly keep the HP constant throughout the encounter. AC, to hit and damage, and spells (if any) would be the major changes round to round. Also give narrative cues as to who is dangerous this round and who is being ignored.
I would like to try and incorporate more gradients into the battle than having a binary system like you mention. I think having the empowered/vulnerable status would be very good for an encounter, but it's not matching what's in my head.
That WOULD be very interesting tiers of attention though. If you get too little attention you're vulnerable and at a certain attention threshold, you're resistant. I need to buckle down and make a table. I'll get around to it... at some point. Probably. I'm very bad at doing things.
There are a few monsters similar to that already. Besides the creatures that has unlimited domination, look at these:
The most like it is probably the Oblex, an Adult one can impersonate upto 5 creatures at a time.
You also might want to look at Aboleth control, Elder Brain, and Neogi
The key aspect should be that the players can determine who they should, and shouldn't be, focusing on each round (they can work it out during the fight).
The difficulty I see for the villain choosing who to pay attention to and who not to is that whilst that might make sense in your head, it sounds difficult to translate into an actual combat where the changes in player ability and power seem to make sense to the players. Will they know what is happening? If not, then it will feel to them like the fight is entirely random and changing at will. This makes all of their decision making less impacting.
Fights in D&D 5e typically last no more than 4-6 turns per player. How will the players know that a character has been empowered through the villain's attention, and wasn't just able to cast meteor storms on them all the time? And does that time frame give sufficient time to keep switching enemy powers on a complex system? I'd also keep thinking about how complicated it could get.
This week I was playing in a game where the villain kept getting stronger the more we beat on him. This was good because it upped the threat level, making him attack faster and for more damage, but was still rewarding because we were breaking him down. I don't think it would have felt good if the minions had suddenly changed stats.
How about something like:
Something like that gives the players something to work with and to strategise around - do they focus the one that has the defensive debuff but who will deal more damage, or go for the weaker ones?
Another alternative might be to have five "attention" points, with each of 5 NPCs starting with one. Each attention point could give a different magical effect showing through a different colour (double damage, defensive buff, immunity to movement impairing, magical resistance, fires a lightning bolt every round). Then each turn, on Initiative count 20, you can move them to whichever minion you wish.
I think that those are some interesting ideas for fights to make them a bit different, and I might have a go with them myself! My main thoughts are to keep it simple mechanically, and to ensure that the players can react to it rather than just having to power through on dice rolls.
For a more passive puppet master, such as a big bad that has controlled minions doing something like a side mission or a mission that doesn't require his direct input, there could be a pool of attention for the group. As a minion dies its attention point could go to another minion until all of the boss' [mission attention] is on one minion. That way the first encounter Attention can be more easily tracked by the party, and when they get accustomed to it I can introduce the Attention shifting without a minion dying.
I expect this type of battle to be recurring through the campaign. The players could be very confused in the beginning at the color-changing enemies the first time they fight but then grow more accustomed to it as the campaign carries on. And then when they crack the code it becomes less of an event to solve the mystery of these enemies and more of a straightforward encounter employing their tried and true strategies.
I think it should be mentioned to the thread that the puppet master I have in mind is a sort of multi-versal god, so them diverting their attention like this is narratively sound. I also think there should be a penalty to the minions who are lacking in attention.
I agree that the system would need to have a visual cue for attention bestowed or withdrawn. A problem I'm encountering in having 10 different attention points is conveying the level of attention like you mentioned. Maybe a DBZ-esque aura? Or an Arcana check to see the power flowing into them... getting easier and easier upon successes until they are familiar with it enough to just tell? It's not very narratively pleasing to hear "She has 7 attention points on her."
A very rough table to convey my thoughts better. I certainly think it could be improved upon.
I have toyed with the idea for a puppet master type character, which controlled beings through brands on their wrists. Players would eventually learn to be wary of anyone with wrist brands - one brand means they are susceptible to control, and both brands means they are being directly controlled, with their consciousness stored by the evil puppeteer. If a player ended up with a wrist brand then they would have disadvantage against the "Charm Person" spell, and if they had 2 then they would automatically fail. It wouldn't be expected for all players to have 2 brands, if they managed that then not only would they have had to have been massively misbehaving, but I'd have to come up with a whole plot twist to continue the story!
The important thing is to have the players be able to see or hear some indication of the control - their eyes glow, or a magical link appears between them and the puppeteer.
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