Ropes! I hate them. They're in practically every adventurer's starting equipment, and they give players a way to bypass nearly every fun challenge I put in their way. Especially with an aarakocra PC who from level 1 can just fly up somewhere and attach a rope for the others to climb.
tl;dr - general tips for making ropes more fun
- ticking clock
- deny anchor points
- provide only weak anchor points that can support one adventurer, but not the whole party
- knots are an ability check
- ropes might not be where you left them
I'm fond of maze-like dungeons with one-way paths, and traps that don't kill you but take you somewhere you didn't intend. Pitfalls are an easy way to do this, but unless they all fall in or they're more than 50' deep, they can just throw a rope down and negate the consequences. And a 50' fall is potentially deadly to low-level characters.
But in my last session, I think I managed to negate simple and boring rope tactics, while leaving open fun and exciting rope antics. The rope in question was suspended over a lava river with rafts of solid rock floating by. They needed to get everyone down fast to land on the same raft. But the rope was tied to a quarterstaff wedged between the rocks; there was nowhere else to secure one. The staff wouldn't hold more than about two adventurers and their gear at a time. They went with the solution of a quick slide down the rope, but there wasn't quite enough time for them to all get down before the raft passed by. But it was still close enough for the last PC to do an acrobatic swing, which I could tell he was pretty chuffed about by his in-character braggadocio.
At the end if the session, they returned to this location, but the lava level had dropped, and the end the rope was now 25' up. I'm not sure if they're going to try to ascend the rope still, but it's not going to be easy. It's more than 50' to the top. I kind of expect the aarakocran to try to fly up and splice two ropes, but it's going to be a DC 25 to do that with one hand, and with a roll of 20-24, it's going to seem like a success, but the knot will fail when someone is halfway up. It's a challenge that they can succeed at, but it's not an automatic success.
I kind of want them not to be able to get out the way they came in, and to find the alternative, more interesting exit, but if they do get out this way, it's fine and won't ruin the plot.
Why not make an obvious pit trap below a false ledge?
in other words, the ledge, or obvious attachment point, they attach the rope to is part of the trap, dumping them into a pit or down a slick chute?
Or you could have the dungeon be on a volcano that’s constantly spitting out acidic fumes that slowly, yet surely destroy all plant fibers in the vicinity. Leather armor and straps would be fine but all cloth and hemp rope would start rotting and fraying. After every long rest roll a D6 and that’s the dmg the rope takes, after it takes half its hp in dmg it’s half the length it used to be and so on.
Personally, I like to reward players who make creative uses of their basic equipment but I do agree their should be occasional downsides or risks to it.
I am a bondage rigger in real life and teach rope though so I have a firm idea of what it can do and can’t along with the relative DCs. Extending rope ? DC 5. I can teach it to anyone in three minutes.)
"When you go over the ledge, the rock unbalances and follows you into the hole."
----------
"You reach the bottom of the pit. Letting go of the rope, you realize that the floor is made of weak plaster. It shatters under your weight and you fall farther."
------------
"After you hit bottom, you see the vague outline of a door in the wall."
"Going through the secret door leads to a seemingly bottomless chasm. Fortunately, there is a rope going across the chasm."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
At the end if the session, they returned to this location, but the lava level had dropped, and the end the rope was now 25' up. I'm not sure if they're going to try to ascend the rope still, but it's not going to be easy. It's more than 50' to the top. I kind of expect the aarakocran to try to fly up and splice two ropes, but it's going to be a DC 25 to do that with one hand, and with a roll of 20-24, it's going to seem like a success, but the knot will fail when someone is halfway up. It's a challenge that they can succeed at, but it's not an automatic success.
Just going to say, that DC 25 is incredibly harsh for that sort of thing, looking at more of a DC5-10 if we're being realistic with maybe some challenge due to potential unsteadiness in flight. Presumably, that hand with something in it is holding the rope you are making the tie with. There are plenty of ways to extend a rope in a load-bearing fashion, at the least the load of a single humanoid. Keep in mind that people formerly tied knots while a seafaring vessel was out of port, so it's not like this is something requiring super-human agility, tying load-bearing knots between ropes in unstable environments.
Mind you, as per Raw, DC 25 is "very hard" and DC 30 is " nearly impossible". If tying two ropes together is only a touch short of impossible, then I don't know how we have managed to do anything regarding rope. For reference, in a portion of Eberron in which a character is given the option to attempt to scale the skyscrapers in that area which have steeply-slanted slopes to them, it is a DC 15 in order to successfully do so. This results in a very likely death of the character on failure, or a number of other things, but you probably don't want to fall from a skyscraper.
I know, it's fun and exhilarating as a DM to drop your PCs to their death, but DC 25 for tying two ropes together is absurd and if they manage a 24, that is going to be a point of frustration. Successfully tying two ropes together shouldn't be a point of contention, it's one of the simplest things you can do with ropes and one of the easiest. If they were trying to shibari somebody up 25 feet above the ground, I might agree with your DC, or if they were using live snakes, but they're not, they're doing probably the second most basic thing they can do with rope.
I feel like in some part this aggressive drop-murdering of PCs is due to how handy fly speed is, but making things unrelated nonsensically difficult to add some challenge to that mechanic is a way I personally frown upon. The real response to flying is "did you know ceilings exist?" and "Did you know that most gnolls have a longbow in their statblock?" or any number of other things besides "did you know the only way to keep two ropes together is sovereign glue?" Aarakocra can fly, yes, but spider climb is a level 2 spell, it's not like this sort of challenge was going to last forever.
D&D is first and foremost (to me anyway) a game, and a simulation second. I find that the unlimited ability to ascend or descend hundreds of feet with no chance of failure or danger limits my ability to create a challenging and interesting game. If 4-5 players can splice ropes end-to-end with no difficulty, they can do just that.
I'm sure you can splice two ropes end-to-end, but it sounds as if that ability comes from proficiency or even expertise. And I'm not sure you've ever done it while hanging from one of them. If they work out a way to handle the rope while not dangling in the air, I'll make it a DC 15. That's something someone with proficiency or expertise can do around 50% of the time. I'm sure you'll tell me you can do it 100% of the time, but D&D ability checks aren't a realistic simulation. An absolutely ripped barbarian can roll a 1 on a strength check and fail to open a jar. It's just part of the game.
Bonus: I'm now going to start making Int (Sleight of Hand) checks for knot-tying behind the screen. So if you want to try to span that 200'-wide chasm by splicing together four 50' ropes, you can certainly try, but I'm going to make three DC 10 Dex checks behind the curtain, and you aren't going to know if you're going to fall to your death until you climb out there.
I would like to point out to everyone who is an expert rigger in real life, that I'm guessing you don't risk your life on a single knot. You try to have a backup, right? And a knife to cut yourself free if you get tangled or can't undo your own knots. This acknowledges that even though you're an expert, you are accounting for the occasional natural 1. If you have expertise and a non-negative modifier for whatever ability check we decide knot-tying is, you have at least a +4. So whichever knots you are doing have a higher than 5 DC, or you would succeed even with a natural 1.
Then again, maybe not much higher. I think probably any expert would have their knots fail fewer than 1 in 20 times, even if they lack natural talent (negative skill modifier).
And maybe I'm okay with complete untalented, unskilled amateurs succeeding on knots 3 out of 4 times. Maybe this will be enough to discourage them from trying risky rope splices, as long as the consequences are severe enough.
At the end if the session, they returned to this location, but the lava level had dropped, and the end the rope was now 25' up. I'm not sure if they're going to try to ascend the rope still, but it's not going to be easy. It's more than 50' to the top. I kind of expect the aarakocran to try to fly up and splice two ropes, but it's going to be a DC 25 to do that with one hand, and with a roll of 20-24, it's going to seem like a success, but the knot will fail when someone is halfway up. It's a challenge that they can succeed at, but it's not an automatic success.
Just going to say, that DC 25 is incredibly harsh for that sort of thing, looking at more of a DC5-10 if we're being realistic with maybe some challenge due to potential unsteadiness in flight.
Well, no. Splicing a rope with one hand is definitaly a DC25. Tying two ropes together, not as much.
@OP. Well, you usually don't need more than one knot. And the thing about ropes is that they are pretty damn durable which, for obvious reasons, makes them pretty damn hard to cut. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to hold the load. Another thing worth keeping in mind is that securing rope will use up at least a bit of that rope. So that 50 feet rope might not be enough to cover that 45 feet gap... ;)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Ropes! I hate them. They're in practically every adventurer's starting equipment, and they give players a way to bypass nearly every fun challenge I put in their way. Especially with an aarakocra PC who from level 1 can just fly up somewhere and attach a rope for the others to climb.
tl;dr - general tips for making ropes more fun
- ticking clock
- deny anchor points
- provide only weak anchor points that can support one adventurer, but not the whole party
- knots are an ability check
- ropes might not be where you left them
I'm fond of maze-like dungeons with one-way paths, and traps that don't kill you but take you somewhere you didn't intend. Pitfalls are an easy way to do this, but unless they all fall in or they're more than 50' deep, they can just throw a rope down and negate the consequences. And a 50' fall is potentially deadly to low-level characters.
But in my last session, I think I managed to negate simple and boring rope tactics, while leaving open fun and exciting rope antics. The rope in question was suspended over a lava river with rafts of solid rock floating by. They needed to get everyone down fast to land on the same raft. But the rope was tied to a quarterstaff wedged between the rocks; there was nowhere else to secure one. The staff wouldn't hold more than about two adventurers and their gear at a time. They went with the solution of a quick slide down the rope, but there wasn't quite enough time for them to all get down before the raft passed by. But it was still close enough for the last PC to do an acrobatic swing, which I could tell he was pretty chuffed about by his in-character braggadocio.
At the end if the session, they returned to this location, but the lava level had dropped, and the end the rope was now 25' up. I'm not sure if they're going to try to ascend the rope still, but it's not going to be easy. It's more than 50' to the top. I kind of expect the aarakocran to try to fly up and splice two ropes, but it's going to be a DC 25 to do that with one hand, and with a roll of 20-24, it's going to seem like a success, but the knot will fail when someone is halfway up. It's a challenge that they can succeed at, but it's not an automatic success.
I kind of want them not to be able to get out the way they came in, and to find the alternative, more interesting exit, but if they do get out this way, it's fine and won't ruin the plot.
Just keep in mind that the Grappling hook is 2GP and players could tie the rope together.
Yep, they can tie ropes together but I'll make them make an ability check and it can fail.
If I say a grappling hook is 500 gp in my world, I can say that. Maybe metallurgy is guarded like magic and all weapons are magic weapons.
I suppose I could also say they can't have ropes in their starting equipment, but that feels like taking away a part of the game some players enjoy.
As it happens my players have not asked if they can shop for a grapping hook.
Why not make an obvious pit trap below a false ledge?
in other words, the ledge, or obvious attachment point, they attach the rope to is part of the trap, dumping them into a pit or down a slick chute?
Or you could have the dungeon be on a volcano that’s constantly spitting out acidic fumes that slowly, yet surely destroy all plant fibers in the vicinity. Leather armor and straps would be fine but all cloth and hemp rope would start rotting and fraying. After every long rest roll a D6 and that’s the dmg the rope takes, after it takes half its hp in dmg it’s half the length it used to be and so on.
Anyways, hope this helps!
Nice ones!
Yes that is DEFINITELY the same rope we left there.
Could not possibly be a Mimic.
He he he.
Maybe a hybrid monster of a Mimic and a Roper.
Personally, I like to reward players who make creative uses of their basic equipment but I do agree their should be occasional downsides or risks to it.
I am a bondage rigger in real life and teach rope though so I have a firm idea of what it can do and can’t along with the relative DCs. Extending rope ? DC 5. I can teach it to anyone in three minutes.)
"Yes, there is a large rock to tie the rope to."
"When you go over the ledge, the rock unbalances and follows you into the hole."
----------
"You reach the bottom of the pit. Letting go of the rope, you realize that the floor is made of weak plaster. It shatters under your weight and you fall farther."
------------
"After you hit bottom, you see the vague outline of a door in the wall."
"Going through the secret door leads to a seemingly bottomless chasm. Fortunately, there is a rope going across the chasm."
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Just going to say, that DC 25 is incredibly harsh for that sort of thing, looking at more of a DC5-10 if we're being realistic with maybe some challenge due to potential unsteadiness in flight. Presumably, that hand with something in it is holding the rope you are making the tie with. There are plenty of ways to extend a rope in a load-bearing fashion, at the least the load of a single humanoid. Keep in mind that people formerly tied knots while a seafaring vessel was out of port, so it's not like this is something requiring super-human agility, tying load-bearing knots between ropes in unstable environments.
Mind you, as per Raw, DC 25 is "very hard" and DC 30 is " nearly impossible". If tying two ropes together is only a touch short of impossible, then I don't know how we have managed to do anything regarding rope. For reference, in a portion of Eberron in which a character is given the option to attempt to scale the skyscrapers in that area which have steeply-slanted slopes to them, it is a DC 15 in order to successfully do so. This results in a very likely death of the character on failure, or a number of other things, but you probably don't want to fall from a skyscraper.
I know, it's fun and exhilarating as a DM to drop your PCs to their death, but DC 25 for tying two ropes together is absurd and if they manage a 24, that is going to be a point of frustration. Successfully tying two ropes together shouldn't be a point of contention, it's one of the simplest things you can do with ropes and one of the easiest. If they were trying to shibari somebody up 25 feet above the ground, I might agree with your DC, or if they were using live snakes, but they're not, they're doing probably the second most basic thing they can do with rope.
I feel like in some part this aggressive drop-murdering of PCs is due to how handy fly speed is, but making things unrelated nonsensically difficult to add some challenge to that mechanic is a way I personally frown upon. The real response to flying is "did you know ceilings exist?" and "Did you know that most gnolls have a longbow in their statblock?" or any number of other things besides "did you know the only way to keep two ropes together is sovereign glue?" Aarakocra can fly, yes, but spider climb is a level 2 spell, it's not like this sort of challenge was going to last forever.
D&D is first and foremost (to me anyway) a game, and a simulation second. I find that the unlimited ability to ascend or descend hundreds of feet with no chance of failure or danger limits my ability to create a challenging and interesting game. If 4-5 players can splice ropes end-to-end with no difficulty, they can do just that.
I'm sure you can splice two ropes end-to-end, but it sounds as if that ability comes from proficiency or even expertise. And I'm not sure you've ever done it while hanging from one of them. If they work out a way to handle the rope while not dangling in the air, I'll make it a DC 15. That's something someone with proficiency or expertise can do around 50% of the time. I'm sure you'll tell me you can do it 100% of the time, but D&D ability checks aren't a realistic simulation. An absolutely ripped barbarian can roll a 1 on a strength check and fail to open a jar. It's just part of the game.
Bonus: I'm now going to start making Int (Sleight of Hand) checks for knot-tying behind the screen. So if you want to try to span that 200'-wide chasm by splicing together four 50' ropes, you can certainly try, but I'm going to make three DC 10 Dex checks behind the curtain, and you aren't going to know if you're going to fall to your death until you climb out there.
I would like to point out to everyone who is an expert rigger in real life, that I'm guessing you don't risk your life on a single knot. You try to have a backup, right? And a knife to cut yourself free if you get tangled or can't undo your own knots. This acknowledges that even though you're an expert, you are accounting for the occasional natural 1. If you have expertise and a non-negative modifier for whatever ability check we decide knot-tying is, you have at least a +4. So whichever knots you are doing have a higher than 5 DC, or you would succeed even with a natural 1.
Then again, maybe not much higher. I think probably any expert would have their knots fail fewer than 1 in 20 times, even if they lack natural talent (negative skill modifier).
And maybe I'm okay with complete untalented, unskilled amateurs succeeding on knots 3 out of 4 times. Maybe this will be enough to discourage them from trying risky rope splices, as long as the consequences are severe enough.
Well, no. Splicing a rope with one hand is definitaly a DC25. Tying two ropes together, not as much.
@OP. Well, you usually don't need more than one knot. And the thing about ropes is that they are pretty damn durable which, for obvious reasons, makes them pretty damn hard to cut. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to hold the load.
Another thing worth keeping in mind is that securing rope will use up at least a bit of that rope. So that 50 feet rope might not be enough to cover that 45 feet gap... ;)