So in my current homebrew campaign the party have ventured to a coastal city in search of a person from one of my players backstories.
This city survives primarily on its trade from ships coming and going in the large large harbour along the coast. This is the largest and only harbour on this side of the continent. The impact this harbour has on the rest of the world is also quite impactful, creating jobs and industry on other continents.
Upon arriving there they found the city had been taken over by a criminal syndicate. The Margrave locked up in the prison and the guards none the wiser. To cut a long story short, the surveyed the city for possible leads and found one at the harbour. A boat that had been ferrying/transporting someone/something too and from the city to an abandoned lighthouse.
Fast forward to the evening and the party is down at the harbour keeping an eye on activity of the boat. It had just come in from a trip, the Criminal Syndicate leader was there to greet the person coming off the boat...an old enemy from waay back at the start of our campaign.
Once the two baddies had left the harbour, the boat was still docked, with its crew still on. Our Cleric decided to cast Control Water at 4th level. Creating a tidal wave that destroyed up a large large part of the harbour and eventually crashed into the ship. Then turning it into a whirlpool to "seal the deal" on the crew of the boat.
They were then chased through the city, narrowly escaping and being forced to act quickly and free the city from the Criminal Syndicate.
They succeeded and now I'm faced with a tough choice. The party have obviously done a great thing by helping the city out, restoring the Margrave to his seat of power and ridding the city of the criminal syndicate. But they also destroyed a large portion of the very thing that keeps this city functioning and stable. With the loss of the harbour thousands of traders jobs will be lost not just in this city, but abroad as well. The cost of repairing the harbour and buildings surrounding the harbour will be pretty sizeable.
My question is, would it be too harsh to give the players no "physical" reward for this? I am thinking, when they go to speak with the Margrave to collect their reward, they will instead be told of the damages and ramifications of the actions they took at the harbour. They will be banished from the city, being imprisoned should they return before their sentence has been served. They have done the city a great service but have also severely damaged the infrastructure of the city that will take many years to recover from.
Thanks in advance for all the help! And sorry for the long post!
I would say that actions should have consequences; both good and bad depending on what the players did. I'm not a big fan of using/enforcing alignments, but players shouldn't be allowed to do "bad" things without possible repercussions. If they willingly allowed their spells to cause collateral damage and that damage has a significantly negative impact on the city, then it seems perfectly reasonable that the PCs don't get the full reward for what they did.
Now, I wouldn't punish them too severely, especially if most of the damage to the harbor was accidental. If that was the case, then I would limited the physical reward to cover the costs of all of the repairs. Maybe forgo the gold reward, but the Margrave doesn't banish them from the city or threaten them with imprisonment. If they PCs purposely chose to ignore the damage being done, then temporarily banishing them isn't the worst thing to do... Again, maybe a good learning opportunity about being careful to not cause more harm while trying to do good.
Either way, I would ensure it's more of a temporary thing to provide more of a learning lesson than a long-term punishment, especially if it's an isolated event. If PCs continue on a path of wanton destruction to solve their problems, then maybe start upping the penalties based on their bad reputation (i.e., infamy versus fame).
Exile from the city sounds more than reasonable. I can see the Margrave saying something along the lines of "had anyone else wrought such destruction, they would now be in prison. In remembrance of your services to myself and my city however, you are merely banished. Speak to my Quartermaster, and she will furnish you with enough coin and supplies to carry you far away from here. You return under penalty of imprisonment. Farewell."
I have a similar situation playing out with my party in LMOP (my first campaign as DM). They wiped out the red cloaks, and burned down the manor.
They left Phandalver immediately after wiping out the red cloaks. The resultant power vacuum lead to a goblin raid (since the red cloaks may not have been the nicest people in the world, but they didn't tolerate anyone else shaking down their turf). Halia is now using this as a political lever - riling up anti-adventurer sentiment and blaming them for everything bad that's happened in Phandalver. They are tying Harbin and Sildar to the party to weaken them politically, with an end game of taking control of Phandalver. Some people in Phandalver view the adventurers positively, some people side with Halia and view them negatively. When returning to the village they are greeted with a combination of cheers and jeers. When we last left our brave band, Sildar was urging them that they only way to turn the tide of Halia's political rise in Phandalver was for the party to regain control of Wave Echo Cave and pass credit to Harbin (who they really, really hate for his cowardice, but grudgingly accept that he's better than Halia) for his 'strong leadership'. WEC is the only thing left for them to do, and they now have a fire under their asses to get it done without delay.
I didn't withhold any reward, but there were absolutely consequences. Sometimes life isn't fair, and no matter what your best intentions and results, people will hate you for the means you use to get those results. It's also rare for everyone to agree, and conflict and disagreement between your NPCs can really help bring a place alive.
It comes down like in Marvel, the Avengers kept destroying the buildings and such costing to re-build and wanting to lock up the mutants, but some see them as heroes. 50/50. Here is your reward, and here is the bill to rebuild and take the reward back.
I agree this is a very superhero take, particularly modern-age superheroes. There are lots of sources to draw from -- the Incredibles (the first one) is a good example of this (Mr. Incredible save a lot of people but also causes tons of destruction). Captain America: Civil War (the Scarlet Witch takes out part of a building, but she did it to stop a bomb from blowing up in a crowded marketplace). There's a Lois and Clark (90s Superman) episode in which it is believed Superman's use of his powers is causing a heat wave throughout the city, and he is ordered to stop using his powers (but can't, because he keeps having to save people) -- that turned out to be some plan of Luthor's. 2nd or 3rd episode of Season 1 Supergirl, there is a fire on the docks and an oil tanker next to it about to blow up, and by moving the tanker away from the fire, preventing an explosion, she damages the ship and causes an oil spill, contaminating National City harbor.
Anyway.. You can probably get a lot of good calibration of how to handle this by looking at Superhero movies and TV shows. They tend to cause some pretty big destruction while taking down bad guys and are often blamed for that destruction, while people are still forced to be thankful for the saving.
With the city's broad trade connections, you could easily give them both reward and consequence. The people in the city could be grateful for the PCs saving them from this criminal syndicate and freeing the margrave (who I'd think would be personally grateful, as well). Rebuilding the port is a small price to pay for the return of legitimate government -- and some industries will reap a windfall of profits from all the rebuilding work.
But outside the city, once the word spreads to other places, people in those cities/countries won't be as happy. Maybe some of them didn't care the place had been run by criminals, so long as they kept the trains running on time (so to speak). But now their trade routes are disrupted, and they don't get any of the up sides of the criminals not being in charge, only the downsides of waiting for rebuilding, and a new government to navigate. So people in those countries (at least those with trade and shipping connections) will have a more negative attitude toward the party. Or maybe a wealthy merchant or guild or something lost some valuable cargo, and they're mad at the PCs, and demand some form of repayment, either in cash or favors. Or an innocent bystander who was actually a person of importance was also sucked into that whirlpool, and now their family has it out for the party.
Any chance there is wiggle room for the party (or city politicians) to lay the blame on the Baddies, without the Party's direct involvement being widely known (or intentionally suppressed by thankful politicians in an effort to quietly prevent a different problem)
This would be a great place to give your players side missions to help fix up the part of the city that they had destroyed (side missions can take up to one or several game session depending on how much you want them to stay there). Had they not interfered, the people of the city would still be suffering, but as they continue helping the city and have it fleshed out, the players receive a special mission to help clear out a plot of land. After some rolls to see if them helping the city out boost morale the Margrave presents them with a piece of paper. Congratulations, you are now the proud residents and owners of this establishment!!! (Their reward for freeing them, helping rebuild the city and boosting the peoples morale is a house or whatever they would like to make it as, plus a teleportation circle in the basement with a teleport stone good for one use every week)
TLDR: don't give them anything but request that they help out rebuilding the city or go to cut some trees for lumber (or bodyguard those that are transporting the lumber) and if they help rebuild the city then reward them with said resident and land (teleportation circle and stone optional)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I would say that actions should have consequences; both good and bad depending on what the players did. I'm not a big fan of using/enforcing alignments, but players shouldn't be allowed to do "bad" things without possible repercussions. If they willingly allowed their spells to cause collateral damage and that damage has a significantly negative impact on the city, then it seems perfectly reasonable that the PCs don't get the full reward for what they did.
Now, I wouldn't punish them too severely, especially if most of the damage to the harbor was accidental. If that was the case, then I would limited the physical reward to cover the costs of all of the repairs. Maybe forgo the gold reward, but the Margrave doesn't banish them from the city or threaten them with imprisonment. If they PCs purposely chose to ignore the damage being done, then temporarily banishing them isn't the worst thing to do... Again, maybe a good learning opportunity about being careful to not cause more harm while trying to do good.
Either way, I would ensure it's more of a temporary thing to provide more of a learning lesson than a long-term punishment, especially if it's an isolated event. If PCs continue on a path of wanton destruction to solve their problems, then maybe start upping the penalties based on their bad reputation (i.e., infamy versus fame).
Exile from the city sounds more than reasonable. I can see the Margrave saying something along the lines of "had anyone else wrought such destruction, they would now be in prison. In remembrance of your services to myself and my city however, you are merely banished. Speak to my Quartermaster, and she will furnish you with enough coin and supplies to carry you far away from here. You return under penalty of imprisonment. Farewell."
I have a similar situation playing out with my party in LMOP (my first campaign as DM). They wiped out the red cloaks, and burned down the manor.
They left Phandalver immediately after wiping out the red cloaks. The resultant power vacuum lead to a goblin raid (since the red cloaks may not have been the nicest people in the world, but they didn't tolerate anyone else shaking down their turf). Halia is now using this as a political lever - riling up anti-adventurer sentiment and blaming them for everything bad that's happened in Phandalver. They are tying Harbin and Sildar to the party to weaken them politically, with an end game of taking control of Phandalver. Some people in Phandalver view the adventurers positively, some people side with Halia and view them negatively. When returning to the village they are greeted with a combination of cheers and jeers. When we last left our brave band, Sildar was urging them that they only way to turn the tide of Halia's political rise in Phandalver was for the party to regain control of Wave Echo Cave and pass credit to Harbin (who they really, really hate for his cowardice, but grudgingly accept that he's better than Halia) for his 'strong leadership'. WEC is the only thing left for them to do, and they now have a fire under their asses to get it done without delay.
I didn't withhold any reward, but there were absolutely consequences. Sometimes life isn't fair, and no matter what your best intentions and results, people will hate you for the means you use to get those results. It's also rare for everyone to agree, and conflict and disagreement between your NPCs can really help bring a place alive.
Thanks all for the replies! Really helpful stuff. I can already feel the wheels in my brain turning!
It comes down like in Marvel, the Avengers kept destroying the buildings and such costing to re-build and wanting to lock up the mutants, but some see them as heroes. 50/50. Here is your reward, and here is the bill to rebuild and take the reward back.
I agree this is a very superhero take, particularly modern-age superheroes. There are lots of sources to draw from -- the Incredibles (the first one) is a good example of this (Mr. Incredible save a lot of people but also causes tons of destruction). Captain America: Civil War (the Scarlet Witch takes out part of a building, but she did it to stop a bomb from blowing up in a crowded marketplace). There's a Lois and Clark (90s Superman) episode in which it is believed Superman's use of his powers is causing a heat wave throughout the city, and he is ordered to stop using his powers (but can't, because he keeps having to save people) -- that turned out to be some plan of Luthor's. 2nd or 3rd episode of Season 1 Supergirl, there is a fire on the docks and an oil tanker next to it about to blow up, and by moving the tanker away from the fire, preventing an explosion, she damages the ship and causes an oil spill, contaminating National City harbor.
Anyway.. You can probably get a lot of good calibration of how to handle this by looking at Superhero movies and TV shows. They tend to cause some pretty big destruction while taking down bad guys and are often blamed for that destruction, while people are still forced to be thankful for the saving.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
With the city's broad trade connections, you could easily give them both reward and consequence. The people in the city could be grateful for the PCs saving them from this criminal syndicate and freeing the margrave (who I'd think would be personally grateful, as well). Rebuilding the port is a small price to pay for the return of legitimate government -- and some industries will reap a windfall of profits from all the rebuilding work.
But outside the city, once the word spreads to other places, people in those cities/countries won't be as happy. Maybe some of them didn't care the place had been run by criminals, so long as they kept the trains running on time (so to speak). But now their trade routes are disrupted, and they don't get any of the up sides of the criminals not being in charge, only the downsides of waiting for rebuilding, and a new government to navigate. So people in those countries (at least those with trade and shipping connections) will have a more negative attitude toward the party. Or maybe a wealthy merchant or guild or something lost some valuable cargo, and they're mad at the PCs, and demand some form of repayment, either in cash or favors. Or an innocent bystander who was actually a person of importance was also sucked into that whirlpool, and now their family has it out for the party.
Of course you could give them a special mission to help rebuild the city in order to earn forgiveness for the damage that they did to the harbor.
Professional computer geek
Any chance there is wiggle room for the party (or city politicians) to lay the blame on the Baddies, without the Party's direct involvement being widely known (or intentionally suppressed by thankful politicians in an effort to quietly prevent a different problem)
Boldly go
This would be a great place to give your players side missions to help fix up the part of the city that they had destroyed (side missions can take up to one or several game session depending on how much you want them to stay there). Had they not interfered, the people of the city would still be suffering, but as they continue helping the city and have it fleshed out, the players receive a special mission to help clear out a plot of land. After some rolls to see if them helping the city out boost morale the Margrave presents them with a piece of paper. Congratulations, you are now the proud residents and owners of this establishment!!! (Their reward for freeing them, helping rebuild the city and boosting the peoples morale is a house or whatever they would like to make it as, plus a teleportation circle in the basement with a teleport stone good for one use every week)
TLDR: don't give them anything but request that they help out rebuilding the city or go to cut some trees for lumber (or bodyguard those that are transporting the lumber) and if they help rebuild the city then reward them with said resident and land (teleportation circle and stone optional)