So a player in my campaign wants to wear eleven chain that the group has found. He is a sorcerer. I was looking through everything and trying to give an answer to him.
According to everything I see, this is my interpretation:
He can wear the armor since it doesn't require proficiency in it to do so, and because of this, he can still cast spells.
Is that the correct ruling or does anyone know what should happen here?
That was my initial interpretation too, but I kept rereading the bit about can wear while lacking the proficiency and that is what got me down the rabbit hole.
Back in the 70's my DM had a saying, "there are no bad rulings".
By the book though, you have ruled correctly.
He can wear the armor because THE ARMOR GIVES HIM PROFICIENCY IN IT. EDIT: And since he now proficiency in it, he can also cast spells while wearing it.
I'd say the original post was correct in the assumtion, elven chain specifically says "You gain a +1 bonus to AC while you wear this armor. You are considered proficient with this armour even if you lack proficiency with Medium armour." So while wearing it you could cast spells as the chain gives you the proficiecy whilst wearing it.
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No, the penalties are a bit stronger than this. in 5e there are no longer interdictions about wearing armor that you are not proficient with, or for other reasons like metal armor for druids. but still, the PH is really clear: " If you wear armor that you lack proficiency with, you have disadvantage on any ability check, saving throw, or attack roll that involves Strength or Dexterity, and you can't cast spells."
Not sure I agree. The wording of the elven chain isn't centered around the item itself, it is centered on the player. It doesn't say the armor "does not require proficiency", it' says "you are considered proficient". If the character is considered proficient, then the quoted prohibition does not apply.
My impression of elven chain is that it was created specifically for wizards to get some armor protection. As such it should be given very carefully, as it dulls one of the major trade offs the wizard must make for their power.
This is awesome everyone. I have been debating this with the player but myself mainly so this is great to see.
Going to go with the Elven allows for the Spells until the D&D gods tell me otherwise. :D
My suggestion is to "forget the dnd gods". As the DM, put the "master" back in Dungeon Master. At my table, I run the game, not a book. The game has gotten too far away from that in my opinion... but I'm just an old bastard who started playing with only "word of mouth" rules.
This is awesome everyone. I have been debating this with the player but myself mainly so this is great to see.
Going to go with the Elven allows for the Spells until the D&D gods tell me otherwise. :D
My suggestion is to "forget the dnd gods". As the DM, put the "master" back in Dungeon Master. At my table, I run the game, not a book. The game has gotten too far away from that in my opinion... but I'm just an old bastard who started playing with only "word of mouth" rules.
Much respect for this. But us less experienced DMs do worry that we'll make calls that unintentionally unbalance our games. Until we develop the natural feel that you probably have, we like to check in both the 'official word' and the graybeards so we can benefit from your experience!
No, the penalties are a bit stronger than this. in 5e there are no longer interdictions about wearing armor that you are not proficient with, or for other reasons like metal armor for druids. but still, the PH is really clear: " If you wear armor that you lack proficiency with, you have disadvantage on any ability check, saving throw, or attack roll that involves Strength or Dexterity, and you can't cast spells."
In regards to the OP question and elven chain mail in particular, this doesn't apply in the particular example though it is the general rule, it is not applicable to this thread.
"ELVEN CHAIN Armor (chain shirt), rare You gain a +1 bonus to AC while you wear this armor. You are considered proficient with this armor even if you lack proficiency with medium armor."
Elven chain specifically grants proficiency with the armor to its wearer so the penalties incurred when wearing armor you are not proficient with do not apply.
In this case, the sorcerer can wear elven chain and cast spells with no issues since they ARE considered proficient with it.
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Hey Everyone,
So a player in my campaign wants to wear eleven chain that the group has found. He is a sorcerer. I was looking through everything and trying to give an answer to him.
According to everything I see, this is my interpretation:
He can wear the armor since it doesn't require proficiency in it to do so, and because of this, he can still cast spells.
Is that the correct ruling or does anyone know what should happen here?
That was my initial interpretation too, but I kept rereading the bit about can wear while lacking the proficiency and that is what got me down the rabbit hole.
Thanks for the help mate!
Back in the 70's my DM had a saying, "there are no bad rulings".
By the book though, you have ruled correctly.
He can wear the armor because THE ARMOR GIVES HIM PROFICIENCY IN IT.
EDIT: And since he now proficiency in it, he can also cast spells while wearing it.
...cryptographic randomness!
I'd say the original post was correct in the assumtion, elven chain specifically says "You gain a +1 bonus to AC while you wear this armor. You are considered proficient with this armour even if you lack proficiency with Medium armour." So while wearing it you could cast spells as the chain gives you the proficiecy whilst wearing it.
Not sure I agree. The wording of the elven chain isn't centered around the item itself, it is centered on the player. It doesn't say the armor "does not require proficiency", it' says "you are considered proficient". If the character is considered proficient, then the quoted prohibition does not apply.
My impression of elven chain is that it was created specifically for wizards to get some armor protection. As such it should be given very carefully, as it dulls one of the major trade offs the wizard must make for their power.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/elven-chain
This is awesome everyone. I have been debating this with the player but myself mainly so this is great to see.
Going to go with the Elven allows for the Spells until the D&D gods tell me otherwise. :D
My suggestion is to "forget the dnd gods".
As the DM, put the "master" back in Dungeon Master. At my table, I run the game, not a book. The game has gotten too far away from that in my opinion... but I'm just an old bastard who started playing with only "word of mouth" rules.
...cryptographic randomness!
Much respect for this. But us less experienced DMs do worry that we'll make calls that unintentionally unbalance our games. Until we develop the natural feel that you probably have, we like to check in both the 'official word' and the graybeards so we can benefit from your experience!
In regards to the OP question and elven chain mail in particular, this doesn't apply in the particular example though it is the general rule, it is not applicable to this thread.
"ELVEN CHAIN
Armor (chain shirt), rare You gain a +1 bonus to AC while you wear this armor. You are considered proficient with this armor even if you lack proficiency with medium armor."
Elven chain specifically grants proficiency with the armor to its wearer so the penalties incurred when wearing armor you are not proficient with do not apply.
In this case, the sorcerer can wear elven chain and cast spells with no issues since they ARE considered proficient with it.