I'm still in the camp that "you conjure an extradimensional dwelling within range that lasts for the duration" implies that this dwelling is newly created, and as it is the extradimensional dwelling that lasts for the duration and not the entrance that does so, the wording seems reasonably clear that the dwelling itself ceases to exist after the spell ends - it only lasts for the duration.
The ejection of creatures is presumably to prevent you from trapping enemies inside and them winking out of existence when the spell ends.
I would also say that if you cast it twice, you would create 2 magnificent mansions, not one with two doors. In the same way as if you cast "created food" twice, it makes twice as much food, not the same food in a different place.
Like I said It really seems like you are bending over backwards to try to discount that there are 2 spells that serve the same basic function, but one has specific language keeping you from storing objects and one doesn't. If it wasn't intended to be able to be used to store objects then why didn't they just use the same language? The difference is literally 2 words, "or objects".
Short answer: Mistakes happen, and squeaky wheels get oil.
Magnificent Mansion is a 7th level spell that is part of the basic rules released in 2014. Galder's Tower is a 3rd level spell that that was released in Dec 2018.
4 years is a long time to improve game design, and as a 7th level spell, Magnificent Mansion rarely comes into play for inexperienced groups, so the ambiguity doesn't tend to cause a lot of noise.
That aside, if we assume that only creatures are ejected, then Magnificent Mansion can be exploited cleanly, by casting a second instance of it within itself (With a 24 hour duration, that's easy to achieve). Since the doorway isn't a creature, it will sit there comfortably until the external mansion is resummoned elsewhere, even on another plane. In fact, you could use this nested Mansion effect to eject hostile creatures directly into the Astral Sea. Of course, it would require at least 3 castings of the spell to achieve, which would require at least two 13+ level casters to pull off, or one 20th level caster.
Lots of fun, but problematic if the players can grapple and drag (or lure) an opponent(s) into the mansion.
Ah, found what I was looking for in the Sage Advice Compendium:
What happens to objects brought inside and left inside Mordenkainen’s magnificent mansion when the spell ends?
The intent is that the objects are ejected from the mansion when the spell ends and appear in unoccupied spaces closest to where the door was. This intent will be re- flected in future printings of the Player’s Handbook.
Thanks for all the help. The amount of barrels comes from Dungeon of the Mad Mage. I feel like this is a hint from the game developers since in the previous adventure, Dragon Heist, they gave the PCs a bar to run.
I can have several different organizations in Waterdeep approach the players with some of the solutions above. I think the hallways are big enough for wagons and oxen except at a few choke points where the wagons would have to be disassembled and reassembled on the other side. I can also have one guild or another offer a magical solution for a hefty cut of the profit.
Regardless of the solution the PCs choose they will have to defend the barrels as they come out of Undermoubtain. Plus, they will have to move them through two areas, the goblin bazaar and the Yawning Portal where they will likely have to negotiate or fight.
Given the number of wagons to run through, it might be faster and easier to hire a mining crew to simply widen the tunnels instead of having to unload each wagon, disassemble it, carry it through the chock point, then reassemble it and reload it every time you reach a choke point.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Yes, I suggested hiring a large number of Bards to inspire the performance as a round. Also, the first thing they have to do is put them all on a wall. Taking one down is step two.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Well your going to need 4 people or more per barrel. And some sort of harness's as a barrel would be hard to hold onto. Hand carts would be best, then one character could move a barrel, just as long as there are no slopes. I would expect your army of 140 to 500 characters would scare off most problems
Oh, and if it wasn't already mentioned, summoning an Earth Elemental might be a work around in some circumstances. They can't carry creatures, but are generally understood to be able to carry objects while Earth Gliding. So, either a Circle of the Moon Druid Wildshaping, or Summon Elemental. Though the spell technically grants a Burrow speed, and not the Earth Glide ability, so the mechanics might be a little different.
I'm interested that teleportation circle hasn't come up yet. It can transport as many creatures as can fit through the circle in one round, and it's not like 50 gp is a horrifying material cost.
I'm interested that teleportation circle hasn't come up yet. It can transport as many creatures as can fit through the circle in one round, and it's not like 50 gp is a horrifying material cost.
Teleportation was explicitly disallowed in the OP.
I'm interested that teleportation circle hasn't come up yet. It can transport as many creatures as can fit through the circle in one round, and it's not like 50 gp is a horrifying material cost.
Teleportation was explicitly disallowed in the OP.
Ah, missed that part. That does make it harder. Leomund's Secret Chest works for a bit but is only about one barrel per chest. I assume demolishing the dungeon (Transmute Rock, etc) is also off the table.
Here's one: a 400 lb wine barrel fits within a 2' cube, so a 10'x10'x10' barrel is 125 times larger ('Large'). Thus, you can use Fabricate to convert them into two 30,000 lb barrels. You now have two targets instead of 140, which means effects that have a single target, such as True Polymorph only have to deal with two targets (and some twin spell shenanigans will solve that).
Lower level options include Animate Objects (but duration 1 minute) and pouring all the wine into a pool and then casting Conjure Elemental on the pool to generate a Wine Elemental.
I'm still in the camp that "you conjure an extradimensional dwelling within range that lasts for the duration" implies that this dwelling is newly created, and as it is the extradimensional dwelling that lasts for the duration and not the entrance that does so, the wording seems reasonably clear that the dwelling itself ceases to exist after the spell ends - it only lasts for the duration.
The ejection of creatures is presumably to prevent you from trapping enemies inside and them winking out of existence when the spell ends.
I would also say that if you cast it twice, you would create 2 magnificent mansions, not one with two doors. In the same way as if you cast "created food" twice, it makes twice as much food, not the same food in a different place.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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Short answer: Mistakes happen, and squeaky wheels get oil.
Magnificent Mansion is a 7th level spell that is part of the basic rules released in 2014.
Galder's Tower is a 3rd level spell that that was released in Dec 2018.
4 years is a long time to improve game design, and as a 7th level spell, Magnificent Mansion rarely comes into play for inexperienced groups, so the ambiguity doesn't tend to cause a lot of noise.
That aside, if we assume that only creatures are ejected, then Magnificent Mansion can be exploited cleanly, by casting a second instance of it within itself (With a 24 hour duration, that's easy to achieve). Since the doorway isn't a creature, it will sit there comfortably until the external mansion is resummoned elsewhere, even on another plane. In fact, you could use this nested Mansion effect to eject hostile creatures directly into the Astral Sea. Of course, it would require at least 3 castings of the spell to achieve, which would require at least two 13+ level casters to pull off, or one 20th level caster.
Lots of fun, but problematic if the players can grapple and drag (or lure) an opponent(s) into the mansion.
Ah, found what I was looking for in the Sage Advice Compendium:
Thanks for all the help. The amount of barrels comes from Dungeon of the Mad Mage. I feel like this is a hint from the game developers since in the previous adventure, Dragon Heist, they gave the PCs a bar to run.
I can have several different organizations in Waterdeep approach the players with some of the solutions above. I think the hallways are big enough for wagons and oxen except at a few choke points where the wagons would have to be disassembled and reassembled on the other side. I can also have one guild or another offer a magical solution for a hefty cut of the profit.
Regardless of the solution the PCs choose they will have to defend the barrels as they come out of Undermoubtain. Plus, they will have to move them through two areas, the goblin bazaar and the Yawning Portal where they will likely have to negotiate or fight.
Should be fun!
Given the number of wagons to run through, it might be faster and easier to hire a mining crew to simply widen the tunnels instead of having to unload each wagon, disassemble it, carry it through the chock point, then reassemble it and reload it every time you reach a choke point.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
There's a simple solution to this, guys.
Yes, I suggested hiring a large number of Bards to inspire the performance as a round. Also, the first thing they have to do is put them all on a wall. Taking one down is step two.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Well your going to need 4 people or more per barrel. And some sort of harness's as a barrel would be hard to hold onto. Hand carts would be best, then one character could move a barrel, just as long as there are no slopes. I would expect your army of 140 to 500 characters would scare off most problems
Oh, and if it wasn't already mentioned, summoning an Earth Elemental might be a work around in some circumstances. They can't carry creatures, but are generally understood to be able to carry objects while Earth Gliding. So, either a Circle of the Moon Druid Wildshaping, or Summon Elemental. Though the spell technically grants a Burrow speed, and not the Earth Glide ability, so the mechanics might be a little different.
I'm interested that teleportation circle hasn't come up yet. It can transport as many creatures as can fit through the circle in one round, and it's not like 50 gp is a horrifying material cost.
Teleportation was explicitly disallowed in the OP.
Ah, missed that part. That does make it harder. Leomund's Secret Chest works for a bit but is only about one barrel per chest. I assume demolishing the dungeon (Transmute Rock, etc) is also off the table.
Here's one: a 400 lb wine barrel fits within a 2' cube, so a 10'x10'x10' barrel is 125 times larger ('Large'). Thus, you can use Fabricate to convert them into two 30,000 lb barrels. You now have two targets instead of 140, which means effects that have a single target, such as True Polymorph only have to deal with two targets (and some twin spell shenanigans will solve that).
Lower level options include Animate Objects (but duration 1 minute) and pouring all the wine into a pool and then casting Conjure Elemental on the pool to generate a Wine Elemental.