I know you think it's harsh, but I'm agreeing with those on how you played the Wyvern sting as "subtle." If someone got "poked" by a Wyvern they're going to know. Potent venom doesn't work otherwise. Think bee sting, no think hornet sting, no, think MURDER HORNET sting and then multiply by Wyvern mass. That's the caliber wound that was inflicted and then neglected?
You put your players in an odd spot because of poor calculations. It may be bracing, but given your penchant for giving PCs exotic high powered monsters as companions, sort of a necessary wake up, on top of all this business with you allowing monster pets that seem to routinely get out of hand more than your liking (you're the DM, this can be addressed).
What I don't get is you required an animal handling check to grief the players, what check did you require to let the tavenkeep and patrons back down when they brought the Wyvern in in the first place? It seems this was more interventional for something that's griped you rather than something run consistently with how you've been running the game to date.
As far as managing the party, a group that wanders back and forth between Hell and Faerun is going to draw notice from people all over the continent keen on keeping tabs on interplanar traffic. That Sage in Candlekeep, Harpers on the Horizon Walker and Watcher paths, probably Zhenatarym, etc. If it turns out the parties misadventures in faerun are more marauding and less discrete those various factions may go from a monitoring to intervention posture pretty quick.
Thanks for the input.
On the wyvern sting, I agree it would be an instant burning poison. In my mind it was, "Ok so he rolled a 5, with a medium sized wyvern in a crowded space... I want to reflect the bad roll without everyone attacking the Wyvern and/or Sorcerer" I wanted to give him a moment to solve the issue he had placed himself in, not just declared initiative from the low animal handling check. So between choosing the Wyvern instanly claws/bites someone, I'll say it was poison and give him a few minutes to manage the situation. After four repeated "No, I do nothing and I don't tell anyone...." it lead to the same conclusion if the Wyvern's poison had acted instantly. So yes, I added a cushion into the game for my Player by changing the medium young Wyvern's venom to subtle and slow from what it is in the manual. So if the issue is, "If someone got 'poked' by a Wyvern they're going to know"... yes, but I wanted to give this player a cushion/time to think about it. Ultimately he chose he didn't want it... 4 times... and was fine with the patron dying.
Second, I do not have a "penchant for giving PCs exotic high powered monsters as companions, sort of a necessary wake up, on top of all this business with you allowing monster pets that seem to routinely get out of hand more than your liking." I don't know where you are getting this from. No-one else has a pet/mount in the Party. He had a griffon mount in a different campaign with a different DM. Lastly to be clear this isn't about my "liking" of anything... I personally like that they are taking risks and creating memorable moments. No-one has done anything "right" or "wrong" here...
The question in this thread is solely what would you as a DM believe a reasonable response/level of force is for the crew of 40 Sailors and/or the Town Guard in a major city be (like Neverwinter). They could probably easily do this in some small village, especially if they didn't leave any survivors to create a bounty on themselves. This is a major civilized city though. The question is the appropriate response for a major city like Neverwinter to such an action, which many have provided great input/responses on here.
"What I don't get is you required an animal handling check to grief the players..." What check do you believe would be appropriate for keeping the creature calm and handled in a busy tavern? In terms of the check on the barkeep's end... it was a persuasion check where they used the Captain of the Guard as a reference for permission. And as to "interventional", this is the first time they've been in a civilized town... they just left Avernus/the Woods. I really cannot express enough there is no gripe... the player hasn't done anything wrong... its just a risky thing to take a Wyvern that has not been through formal training into a crowded city.
Lastly I appreciate and like your thoughts on inter-planar travel. They took a portal from Mahadi the rakshasa from the Wandering Emporium and were greeted on the other side by Cult of the Dragon members.
Again, the post is for input on how you as a DM think the Sailors and Town Guard would respond. That's it. Thank you again for your input!
Ok, to walk back some of my hostility and just deal with a body dropping dead in a tavern with the PCs clearly getting fingered for it, it depends on your Neverwinter. I mean the way it's represented in the 5e era in sourcebooks and adventures is a city that had been wracked by cataclysmic problems, but an entrepreneurial Lord of sorts has taken it as a fixer upper project. Given the past it's only recently pulled itself out of I think the city will have little patience for monster wielding anarchists (whether that's the PCs actual disposition or not, this is one of those actions or "accidents" resultant of negligent action) where the city authority may crack down and make an example of things. From what I can tell, "canonically" (which for me is just an advisory if I'm dealing with something like FR material) Neverwinter is in this transitional stage where the authority of the Lord is exercised via mercenaries, though there is a desire to replace the mercenary army with citizens invested in defending Neverwinter as their home, so you have a system of neighborhood militias that are the most likely response. I'm thinking as soon as the group walked into the bar, someone let the local defenders know what's up, and those folks, probably adventurers who "retired" by helping raise Neverwinter out of chaos and are now very "not in my backyard types," posted up outside the tavern and as soon as shouts of murder were made, it's on ... probably backed up by the heavier duty mercenary force with war mages etc. In other words, the PCs aren't in Hell any longer and there are rules in civilization, the consequences in the places that insist upon tend to be getting run out of town.
This will give them a sort of "you can't go home again" moment, where they realize their time in Hell has changed them and they may have to try harder if they want to blend in or just resort to a life as marauders. They're hell driven now.
Neverwinter looks to be Lords Alliance, so if enough casualties are inflicted in their escape from the overlapping security (I'm pretty sure the party is not going to surrender to anyone's custody) there's your first faction wondering who the heck is destabilizing their law and order network, and could well lead to the factions (who are already talking a lot because of the whole Tiamat sniffing around for a route in thing) to basically have a communique whose substance amounts to "who wants dibs?"
On the other hand, if this was Luskan, everyone in the bar would have just let it go, except for a feral apothecary who would likely try to get as much of the venom out of the corpse as possible or maybe try to swindle the PCs into an arrangement allowing the apothecary to "milk" the Wyvern.
So it's not so much "we need a bigger boat" as "we need another port" like Luskan, you can get away with anything in Luskan.
If the characters do surrender to custody, not sure exactly how justice is rendered. Maybe the wyvern is declared the property of anyone ship captain as damages for loss of crew. Maybe the offending wyvern is indentured for a period of harsh sea faring as similar compensation. Maybe the wyvern is executed and its body places somewhere prominent for the venom milkers as an example of the new Lord's authority. Given the city on paper, this just doesn't go away so it's a matter of whether the party gets exposed to Lords Alliance style justice (which may vary from city to city, in fact I'm sure of it since BG and Elturel were both members and hated each other) or go fugitive (yes, disappointing their new patron). I don't mind planned adventure derailment like that as long as its world consistent, but that's how I play.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Ok, to walk back some of my hostility and just deal with a body dropping dead in a tavern with the PCs clearly getting fingered for it, it depends on your Neverwinter. I mean the way it's represented in the 5e era in sourcebooks and adventures is a city that had been wracked by cataclysmic problems, but an entrepreneurial Lord of sorts has taken it as a fixer upper project. Given the past it's only recently pulled itself out of I think the city will have little patience for monster wielding anarchists (whether that's the PCs actual disposition or not, this is one of those actions or "accidents" resultant of negligent action) where the city authority may crack down and make an example of things. From what I can tell, "canonically" (which for me is just an advisory if I'm dealing with something like FR material) Neverwinter is in this transitional stage where the authority of the Lord is exercised via mercenaries, though there is a desire to replace the mercenary army with citizens invested in defending Neverwinter as their home, so you have a system of neighborhood militias that are the most likely response. I'm thinking as soon as the group walked into the bar, someone let the local defenders know what's up, and those folks, probably adventurers who "retired" by helping raise Neverwinter out of chaos and are now very "not in my backyard types," posted up outside the tavern and as soon as shouts of murder were made, it's on ... probably backed up by the heavier duty mercenary force with war mages etc. In other words, the PCs aren't in Hell any longer and there are rules in civilization, the consequences in the places that insist upon tend to be getting run out of town.
This will give them a sort of "you can't go home again" moment, where they realize their time in Hell has changed them and they may have to try harder if they want to blend in or just resort to a life as marauders. They're hell driven now.
Neverwinter looks to be Lords Alliance, so if enough casualties are inflicted in their escape from the overlapping security (I'm pretty sure the party is not going to surrender to anyone's custody) there's your first faction wondering who the heck is destabilizing their law and order network, and could well lead to the factions (who are already talking a lot because of the whole Tiamat sniffing around for a route in thing) to basically have a communique whose substance amounts to "who wants dibs?"
On the other hand, if this was Luskan, everyone in the bar would have just let it go, except for a feral apothecary who would likely try to get as much of the venom out of the corpse as possible or maybe try to swindle the PCs into an arrangement allowing the apothecary to "milk" the Wyvern.
So it's not so much "we need a bigger boat" as "we need another port" like Luskan, you can get away with anything in Luskan.
If the characters do surrender to custody, not sure exactly how justice is rendered. Maybe the wyvern is declared the property of anyone ship captain as damages for loss of crew. Maybe the offending wyvern is indentured for a period of harsh sea faring as similar compensation. Maybe the wyvern is executed and its body places somewhere prominent for the venom milkers as an example of the new Lord's authority. Given the city on paper, this just doesn't go away so it's a matter of whether the party gets exposed to Lords Alliance style justice (which may vary from city to city, in fact I'm sure of it since BG and Elturel were both members and hated each other) or go fugitive (yes, disappointing their new patron). I don't mind planned adventure derailment like that as long as its world consistent, but that's how I play.
/Slow Clap ... A+
I think I'm going to go with surrendering the Wyvern to the Captain and gold to compensate the sailor's family. I think he'd rather his character die than lose his Wyvern (although I'm sure he'd try to get a new dragon/wyvern from Tiamat in Avernus)... I think if they demand or do flat out kill the Wyvern, he's casting Thunder Step then turning around and launching a Fireball into that Tavern on his next turn. He may put up a fight if they threaten to take it, but then they can just pummel him until he's unconscious... rob him and take the Wyvern.
I'll have the other captain heading towards Fireshear (Storm King's Thunder states that a Griffon Rider trainer is there) to train his new pet. Its on the way to their mission north to the sea of moving ice so not too much time lost, and its convenient if he wants to maybe leave the wyvern there for training while he heads north and comes back... or at least look into buying a Saddle of the Cavalier. This way they can intercept the Captain with his Wyvern at sea or in Fireshear, as an outpost he has a better change of going full chaotic evil here if he wants revenge for taking his Wyvern.
I really love your response, particularly "This will give them a sort of "'you can't go home again' moment, where they realize their time in Hell has changed them and they may have to try harder if they want to blend in or just resort to a life as marauders. They're hell driven now."
Thanks for the input.
On the wyvern sting, I agree it would be an instant burning poison. In my mind it was, "Ok so he rolled a 5, with a medium sized wyvern in a crowded space... I want to reflect the bad roll without everyone attacking the Wyvern and/or Sorcerer" I wanted to give him a moment to solve the issue he had placed himself in, not just declared initiative from the low animal handling check. So between choosing the Wyvern instanly claws/bites someone, I'll say it was poison and give him a few minutes to manage the situation. After four repeated "No, I do nothing and I don't tell anyone...." it lead to the same conclusion if the Wyvern's poison had acted instantly. So yes, I added a cushion into the game for my Player by changing the medium young Wyvern's venom to subtle and slow from what it is in the manual. So if the issue is, "If someone got 'poked' by a Wyvern they're going to know"... yes, but I wanted to give this player a cushion/time to think about it. Ultimately he chose he didn't want it... 4 times... and was fine with the patron dying.
Second, I do not have a "penchant for giving PCs exotic high powered monsters as companions, sort of a necessary wake up, on top of all this business with you allowing monster pets that seem to routinely get out of hand more than your liking." I don't know where you are getting this from. No-one else has a pet/mount in the Party. He had a griffon mount in a different campaign with a different DM. Lastly to be clear this isn't about my "liking" of anything... I personally like that they are taking risks and creating memorable moments. No-one has done anything "right" or "wrong" here...
The question in this thread is solely what would you as a DM believe a reasonable response/level of force is for the crew of 40 Sailors and/or the Town Guard in a major city be (like Neverwinter). They could probably easily do this in some small village, especially if they didn't leave any survivors to create a bounty on themselves. This is a major civilized city though. The question is the appropriate response for a major city like Neverwinter to such an action, which many have provided great input/responses on here.
"What I don't get is you required an animal handling check to grief the players..." What check do you believe would be appropriate for keeping the creature calm and handled in a busy tavern? In terms of the check on the barkeep's end... it was a persuasion check where they used the Captain of the Guard as a reference for permission. And as to "interventional", this is the first time they've been in a civilized town... they just left Avernus/the Woods. I really cannot express enough there is no gripe... the player hasn't done anything wrong... its just a risky thing to take a Wyvern that has not been through formal training into a crowded city.
Lastly I appreciate and like your thoughts on inter-planar travel. They took a portal from Mahadi the rakshasa from the Wandering Emporium and were greeted on the other side by Cult of the Dragon members.
Again, the post is for input on how you as a DM think the Sailors and Town Guard would respond. That's it. Thank you again for your input!
Ok, to walk back some of my hostility and just deal with a body dropping dead in a tavern with the PCs clearly getting fingered for it, it depends on your Neverwinter. I mean the way it's represented in the 5e era in sourcebooks and adventures is a city that had been wracked by cataclysmic problems, but an entrepreneurial Lord of sorts has taken it as a fixer upper project. Given the past it's only recently pulled itself out of I think the city will have little patience for monster wielding anarchists (whether that's the PCs actual disposition or not, this is one of those actions or "accidents" resultant of negligent action) where the city authority may crack down and make an example of things. From what I can tell, "canonically" (which for me is just an advisory if I'm dealing with something like FR material) Neverwinter is in this transitional stage where the authority of the Lord is exercised via mercenaries, though there is a desire to replace the mercenary army with citizens invested in defending Neverwinter as their home, so you have a system of neighborhood militias that are the most likely response. I'm thinking as soon as the group walked into the bar, someone let the local defenders know what's up, and those folks, probably adventurers who "retired" by helping raise Neverwinter out of chaos and are now very "not in my backyard types," posted up outside the tavern and as soon as shouts of murder were made, it's on ... probably backed up by the heavier duty mercenary force with war mages etc. In other words, the PCs aren't in Hell any longer and there are rules in civilization, the consequences in the places that insist upon tend to be getting run out of town.
This will give them a sort of "you can't go home again" moment, where they realize their time in Hell has changed them and they may have to try harder if they want to blend in or just resort to a life as marauders. They're hell driven now.
Neverwinter looks to be Lords Alliance, so if enough casualties are inflicted in their escape from the overlapping security (I'm pretty sure the party is not going to surrender to anyone's custody) there's your first faction wondering who the heck is destabilizing their law and order network, and could well lead to the factions (who are already talking a lot because of the whole Tiamat sniffing around for a route in thing) to basically have a communique whose substance amounts to "who wants dibs?"
On the other hand, if this was Luskan, everyone in the bar would have just let it go, except for a feral apothecary who would likely try to get as much of the venom out of the corpse as possible or maybe try to swindle the PCs into an arrangement allowing the apothecary to "milk" the Wyvern.
So it's not so much "we need a bigger boat" as "we need another port" like Luskan, you can get away with anything in Luskan.
If the characters do surrender to custody, not sure exactly how justice is rendered. Maybe the wyvern is declared the property of anyone ship captain as damages for loss of crew. Maybe the offending wyvern is indentured for a period of harsh sea faring as similar compensation. Maybe the wyvern is executed and its body places somewhere prominent
for the venom milkersas an example of the new Lord's authority. Given the city on paper, this just doesn't go away so it's a matter of whether the party gets exposed to Lords Alliance style justice (which may vary from city to city, in fact I'm sure of it since BG and Elturel were both members and hated each other) or go fugitive (yes, disappointing their new patron). I don't mind planned adventure derailment like that as long as its world consistent, but that's how I play.Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
/Slow Clap ... A+
I think I'm going to go with surrendering the Wyvern to the Captain and gold to compensate the sailor's family. I think he'd rather his character die than lose his Wyvern (although I'm sure he'd try to get a new dragon/wyvern from Tiamat in Avernus)... I think if they demand or do flat out kill the Wyvern, he's casting Thunder Step then turning around and launching a Fireball into that Tavern on his next turn. He may put up a fight if they threaten to take it, but then they can just pummel him until he's unconscious... rob him and take the Wyvern.
I'll have the other captain heading towards Fireshear (Storm King's Thunder states that a Griffon Rider trainer is there) to train his new pet. Its on the way to their mission north to the sea of moving ice so not too much time lost, and its convenient if he wants to maybe leave the wyvern there for training while he heads north and comes back... or at least look into buying a Saddle of the Cavalier. This way they can intercept the Captain with his Wyvern at sea or in Fireshear, as an outpost he has a better change of going full chaotic evil here if he wants revenge for taking his Wyvern.
I really love your response, particularly "This will give them a sort of "'you can't go home again' moment, where they realize their time in Hell has changed them and they may have to try harder if they want to blend in or just resort to a life as marauders. They're hell driven now."
Thank you again, fantastic help.