I think you have a good plan. Now, just be prepared to follow through with it if he does not change his ways (which unfortunately sounds likely). Don't put up with this kind of stuff. Everyone at the table deserves better. It's a shame his wife might end up deprived of the chance to play.
That’s the worst of it. I really enjoy her. She came with ZERO expectations and at one point in the session I just saw her eyes light up as she realized that this was the greatest thing ever. She actually said “Ooh! This is like make believe, but better! I want to play!” Would suck if he ruined her time.
My concern is that if I try to come to an understanding with him and fail, he is going to cost me sessions worth of planning and fun. I also must admit, I didn’t want to go there but he kind of scares me a little. He is aggressive, big, and in great shape and his body language seems to convey that he wants to he in control. For instance, he noticed I was standing for most of the session. I am a very active DM and it is easier to manage the board on my feet, so he started to stand about half way through the session. I am worried that if I say “sorry you can’t make an attack of opportunity you already used your reaction.” He will come back with “I’m gonna kick your ass!!”
This is a completely non-viable situation. A DM cannot run a game while feeling under threat from the players if something happens to displease them.
I recommend talking to the wife. Explain to her that you feel this way and you cannot DM under these circumstances. Maybe she will have a solution, or maybe she will give him what-for at home.
But you simply cannot and must not DM while feeling like if you make a ruling that a player doesn't like you may be physically assaulted. This is completely unacceptable in an RPG.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
My concern is that if I try to come to an understanding with him and fail, he is going to cost me sessions worth of planning and fun. I also must admit, I didn’t want to go there but he kind of scares me a little. He is aggressive, big, and in great shape and his body language seems to convey that he wants to he in control. For instance, he noticed I was standing for most of the session. I am a very active DM and it is easier to manage the board on my feet, so he started to stand about half way through the session. I am worried that if I say “sorry you can’t make an attack of opportunity you already used your reaction.” He will come back with “I’m gonna kick your ass!!”
This is a completely non-viable situation. A DM cannot run a game while feeling under threat from the players if something happens to displease them.
I recommend talking to the wife. Explain to her that you feel this way and you cannot DM under these circumstances. Maybe she will have a solution, or maybe she will give him what-for at home.
But you simply cannot and must not DM while feeling like if you make a ruling that a player doesn't like you may be physically assaulted. This is completely unacceptable in an RPG.
Honestly I maybe overreacting he has not shown a propensity for violence. I know plenty of people who are aggressive, but not violent. Plus, he’d be fighting 4 dudes.
As a painter of miniatures, the figurine-slamming alone is unforgivable. If anyone I’d remotely want to be friends with did that, it had better be followed up by “oh my god I’m so sorry I feel so bad! can I please buy you a new one?” Destroying art by accident had better make someone feel like poop, unless they’re a completely miserable excuse for a friend.
The guy seems like an utter jerk and if I had to guess, he’s probably there to “keep an eye on” his wife. I’m no professional, but I would imagine with a guy that violent their relationship is somewhat abusive or at least screwed up. Most likely she’s not making him play, he’s jealous and stalking her. Gosh, I feel awful for her. (Note that this isn’t necessarily the case, but it sounds like it might be.)
As a painter of miniatures, the figurine-slamming alone is unforgivable. If anyone I’d remotely want to be friends with did that, it had better be followed up by “oh my god I’m so sorry I feel so bad! can I please buy you a new one?” Destroying art by accident had better make someone feel like poop, unless they’re a completely miserable excuse for a friend.
The guy seems like an utter jerk and if I had to guess, he’s probably there to “keep an eye on” his wife. I’m no professional, but I would imagine with a guy that violent their relationship is somewhat abusive or at least screwed up. Most likely she’s not making him play, he’s jealous and stalking her. Gosh, I feel awful for her. (Note that this isn’t necessarily the case, but it sounds like it might be.)
Thank you for the sympathy. I also paint figurines, as a beginner, and it took me about six hours to design and paint mine. His reaction was more of a “sorry man” than “Oh my god! I am so so sorry.” We were talking about how we could glue it so if I am being charitable he might not have thought it was that big of a deal.
As far as the misogyny angle goes they are both pretty terrible to each other much to the consternation of the group. I haven’t seen him do anything that suggests he is protective of her. I can’t say for sure but the way she reacts to him suggests that she is the stringer willed one in the relationship. That doesn’t mean she is not getting abused though. I sure hope she isn’t.
One thing I'll add, because there is A LOT of good advice here (and your plan to handle it sounds very very good):
Please do not make the issue with the husband into the wife's responsibility. Women in western societies are unfairly expected to handle emotional stressors far, far more than men are. This is the husband's issue, the husband is being the problem; it is NOT the responsibility of his wife, any more than any other PC at your table, to help stop the problem.
You can (and should) make her aware of the situation and any plans to boot him, but please do not put expectations on her to mediate the discussions. That goes double if you are already concerned about unhealthy behavior in their relationship.
Than you all again for the advice. Here is an update on the situation:
I invited all my regular players to a group chat and simply asked "Has anyone had any fun the past two sessions?" Their answers ranged from "No way." to "Yes, but..." We are all basically in agreement that either this dude has to shape up and decide to share the spotlight, not be so aggressive, and stop making logically indefensible decisions or he is gone. I had already been planning on a new session zero just to level characters up and get a pulse on the game. It really should have happened when the two new players joined.
As of right now my plan is this:
1) I am going to have the next session at my home instead of one of my player's homes. This way if I need to kick someone out I will be in my own house and there will be no disagreement.
2) I am going to have one of my players who has a good relationship with his wife talk to her about the state of the campaign while my co-DM and I (we switch back and forth between dungeon levels in a megadungeon) will take him aside and gently explain that his playstyle and attitude are causing a disruption, we are going to set some new ground rules at a new session zero, and if he doesn't follow those rules then we may have to boot him and possibly his wife. I also learned that he did not offer to pay for my other player's figurine. I will suggest that he do so, even if he refuses I feel that he is obliged to offer.
3) During session zero I will lay out a set of ground rules and get buy in as well as gather the players' feedback. I will touch on the following rules that apply directly to him:
a) Don't hog the spotlight and be quiet during others turns. This is a collaborative experience, everyone will get time in the spotlight, be respectful and give others their time.
b) If you want to challenge a ruling, please have a rule ready to justify the ruling (this is big at our table, we are rules lawyers and it is part of the fun of the game for us). Do not appeal to the laws of physics or "common sense" this is a fantasy game with rules. In real life you can trip and break your neck, in this world you can fall 100 feet and still survive. If you want to challenge a ruling, bone up.
One of my players, the one who invited them, offered to break the news to them if he does not shape up. I will not put her through this. If he acts like an ass for one more session then I am going to boot him and I will be more than happy to break the news to him, if anything I am maybe a bit too eager. If he does anything egregious at the table like calling people names or threatening someone then he is gone then and there. It's my house and I won't tolerate it. I hope it doesn't come to that, but with this guy I plan on being ready for anything.
This all sounds great but I would say for you, ease back a little, he is a brand new player so some of your rules will be a struggle regardless of his personality. The rules lawyer thing, across all the books there are alot of rules for a new player to learn, asking questions, respectfully, should be fine at your table, asking if a certain rule makes sense in a situation for a newbie should also be an ok thing to do. I get your table are very much about RAW but you have also all played the game.
Any threatening or inappropriate behaviour should be dealt with swiftly, make sure though that all these rules are laid out to him so he is fully aware of what happens if he breaks them. also don't aim your conversation at him, you are defining things for the group as a whole. Explain the reason behind every rule you are stating. "The game can get muddied down if we get into mechanics so as DM I can make a quick call and we can discuss after the game, everyone needs to have a chance to have their moment, and it can be fun to sit back and watch and engage with your fellow players etc.
I get he has pissed you off, and I get he sounds like that kid who we all had to deal with at school, but, don't go into the session looking for a reason to have a go at him or it will make the session horrible for you, be aware, be prepared, if you need to write a few things out and have them ready in your DM notes to say to him then do that, but, approach it the same way as any other session 0, maybe also take the chance to ask him how he is liking his character, how he is enjoying the game and what he wants to get out of it. It will help you and the other players understand where he is coming from and will make him start to feel part of the group and that his opinion matters. It might also help you shape the conversation in a way that explains this table might not be for him, he may well want a drink and kill group and it is clear your group is not that.
I would also tell the room that the whole point of DnD is escapism so, everyone try and leave any personal stuff at the door and just enjoy being someone different for a while. This is important for them as a couple, if they are the type to fight etc the you are subtly telling them that any issues they are having at hime, stay at the door and dont come to the table.
The guy seems like an utter jerk and if I had to guess, he’s probably there to “keep an eye on” his wife. I’m no professional, but I would imagine with a guy that violent their relationship is somewhat abusive or at least screwed up. Most likely she’s not making him play, he’s jealous and stalking her. Gosh, I feel awful for her. (Note that this isn’t necessarily the case, but it sounds like it might be.)
As far as the misogyny angle goes they are both pretty terrible to each other much to the consternation of the group. I haven’t seen him do anything that suggests he is protective of her. I can’t say for sure but the way she reacts to him suggests that she is the stringer willed one in the relationship. That doesn’t mean she is not getting abused though. I sure hope she isn’t.
That’s good (I mean, as much as an adversarial relationship can be good!) Thanks for the update.
People are making a lot of assumptions about the relationships of the people involved. As forum readers, who don't know any of these folks, we really should not speculate or comment upon this.
Regarding whether the husband intimidating the DM has shown actual violence, I submit this is irrelevant. The DM has said they feel intimidated by the player, to the point where the DM is almost afraid to do in-game things like attacks of opportunity. This is not acceptable. One cannot DM this way. The one player is ruining he campaign for everyone else. This must stop.
The ideal situation is to talk to the player, but if the DM feels physically intimidated by the player, this may not be workable as a solution. Banning the player might cause issues with the wife, who is also a player, and may resent her husband being ditched. Killing the PC off is not an option if the DM is intimidated just to make AoOs against the guy. I'm not sure there are any easy solutions here.
What I can say is that this situation would make me not want to DM anymore. At all.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
One thing I'll add, because there is A LOT of good advice here (and your plan to handle it sounds very very good):
Please do not make the issue with the husband into the wife's responsibility. Women in western societies are unfairly expected to handle emotional stressors far, far more than men are. This is the husband's issue, the husband is being the problem; it is NOT the responsibility of his wife, any more than any other PC at your table, to help stop the problem.
You can (and should) make her aware of the situation and any plans to boot him, but please do not put expectations on her to mediate the discussions. That goes double if you are already concerned about unhealthy behavior in their relationship.
TY. That is why we are going to talk to her separately. My GF will talk to her just to suss put if she is actually the hidden problem, i.e. dragging him to sessions.
i had thought about going through her but I think, as other posters have pointed out, that robs him of his agency.
You know best out of all of us whether he is actually violent - all we have to go on is your words here. From what I read, it's not that he is violent but more that he is a big, somewhat obnoxious personality and also a well built person who could do some damage if they did turn to violence, and that this is intimidating to you as you feel like you're having to tell him off.
If he's genuinely seeming violent, you need to get shot of him. I'm always for talking things out, but a violent personality who might see things in a game as personal attacks just isn't suited for this sort of game, regardless of the body it comes in.
Now, if it's merely that he's (at risk of sounding like his antics are just "boys will be boys", which it ain't) "Boisterous" - loud and animated, basically - then this is something he can work on. It might be he's actually getting caught up too much in the game and is not brilliant at playing with others, and so got frustrated at being left to die repeatedly (this doesn't justify damaging the figurine, but it could explain it). From what I'm hearing, his issue is not that he doesn't enjoy the game, it's simply that he doesn't really know how to play it. It sounds like he compensates for not knowing what to do by doing the things that worked over and over, and byt getting frustrated that other players want to do different things instead.
If you think you can talk to him, do so. Don't talk to the wife as well, talk to her afterwards. The problem is his, not hers. Try to get him alone to chat - sometimes people are less likely to act up if they haven't got an audience. Discuss it with him openly and if he decides he wants to try and do better, give him the chance. If he decides he's leaving, then talk to his wife and tell her she's welcome to come back. If the guy doesn't do anything bad and just says he's not coming back, part as friends if you can - tell him he's also welcome to come back and try again if he wants to. This will prevent the wife from being ostracized by his actions.
Obviously if you wouldn't welcome him back, don't say you would. Play it by ear based on how he responds to a chat about it.
Than you all again for the advice. Here is an update on the situation:
I invited all my regular players to a group chat and simply asked "Has anyone had any fun the past two sessions?" Their answers ranged from "No way." to "Yes, but..." We are all basically in agreement that either this dude has to shape up and decide to share the spotlight, not be so aggressive, and stop making logically indefensible decisions or he is gone. I had already been planning on a new session zero just to level characters up and get a pulse on the game. It really should have happened when the two new players joined.
As of right now my plan is this:
1) I am going to have the next session at my home instead of one of my player's homes. This way if I need to kick someone out I will be in my own house and there will be no disagreement.
2) I am going to have one of my players who has a good relationship with his wife talk to her about the state of the campaign while my co-DM and I (we switch back and forth between dungeon levels in a megadungeon) will take him aside and gently explain that his playstyle and attitude are causing a disruption, we are going to set some new ground rules at a new session zero, and if he doesn't follow those rules then we may have to boot him and possibly his wife. I also learned that he did not offer to pay for my other player's figurine. I will suggest that he do so, even if he refuses I feel that he is obliged to offer.
3) During session zero I will lay out a set of ground rules and get buy in as well as gather the players' feedback. I will touch on the following rules that apply directly to him:
a) Don't hog the spotlight and be quiet during others turns. This is a collaborative experience, everyone will get time in the spotlight, be respectful and give others their time.
b) If you want to challenge a ruling, please have a rule ready to justify the ruling (this is big at our table, we are rules lawyers and it is part of the fun of the game for us). Do not appeal to the laws of physics or "common sense" this is a fantasy game with rules. In real life you can trip and break your neck, in this world you can fall 100 feet and still survive. If you want to challenge a ruling, bone up.
One of my players, the one who invited them, offered to break the news to them if he does not shape up. I will not put her through this. If he acts like an ass for one more session then I am going to boot him and I will be more than happy to break the news to him, if anything I am maybe a bit too eager. If he does anything egregious at the table like calling people names or threatening someone then he is gone then and there. It's my house and I won't tolerate it. I hope it doesn't come to that, but with this guy I plan on being ready for anything.
This all sounds great but I would say for you, ease back a little, he is a brand new player so some of your rules will be a struggle regardless of his personality. The rules lawyer thing, across all the books there are alot of rules for a new player to learn, asking questions, respectfully, should be fine at your table, asking if a certain rule makes sense in a situation for a newbie should also be an ok thing to do. I get your table are very much about RAW but you have also all played the game.
Any threatening or inappropriate behaviour should be dealt with swiftly, make sure though that all these rules are laid out to him so he is fully aware of what happens if he breaks them. also don't aim your conversation at him, you are defining things for the group as a whole. Explain the reason behind every rule you are stating. "The game can get muddied down if we get into mechanics so as DM I can make a quick call and we can discuss after the game, everyone needs to have a chance to have their moment, and it can be fun to sit back and watch and engage with your fellow players etc.
I get he has pissed you off, and I get he sounds like that kid who we all had to deal with at school, but, don't go into the session looking for a reason to have a go at him or it will make the session horrible for you, be aware, be prepared, if you need to write a few things out and have them ready in your DM notes to say to him then do that, but, approach it the same way as any other session 0, maybe also take the chance to ask him how he is liking his character, how he is enjoying the game and what he wants to get out of it. It will help you and the other players understand where he is coming from and will make him start to feel part of the group and that his opinion matters. It might also help you shape the conversation in a way that explains this table might not be for him, he may well want a drink and kill group and it is clear your group is not that.
I would also tell the room that the whole point of DnD is escapism so, everyone try and leave any personal stuff at the door and just enjoy being someone different for a while. This is important for them as a couple, if they are the type to fight etc the you are subtly telling them that any issues they are having at hime, stay at the door and dont come to the table.
Good advice. I don’t mind rules questions from the table, especially from new players it’s all in how you ask it, i.e. “My armor class should block that dude!!!” vs. “Is my armor class high enough to block that?”
Iam getting more of the former from that dude. It is really infuriating when you have played the game for almost 30 years and a green beginner thinks he can dictate the rules to you.
You know best out of all of us whether he is actually violent - all we have to go on is your words here. From what I read, it's not that he is violent but more that he is a big, somewhat obnoxious personality and also a well built person who could do some damage if they did turn to violence, and that this is intimidating to you as you feel like you're having to tell him off.
If he's genuinely seeming violent, you need to get shot of him. I'm always for talking things out, but a violent personality who might see things in a game as personal attacks just isn't suited for this sort of game, regardless of the body it comes in.
Now, if it's merely that he's (at risk of sounding like his antics are just "boys will be boys", which it ain't) "Boisterous" - loud and animated, basically - then this is something he can work on. It might be he's actually getting caught up too much in the game and is not brilliant at playing with others, and so got frustrated at being left to die repeatedly (this doesn't justify damaging the figurine, but it could explain it). From what I'm hearing, his issue is not that he doesn't enjoy the game, it's simply that he doesn't really know how to play it. It sounds like he compensates for not knowing what to do by doing the things that worked over and over, and byt getting frustrated that other players want to do different things instead.
If you think you can talk to him, do so. Don't talk to the wife as well, talk to her afterwards. The problem is his, not hers. Try to get him alone to chat - sometimes people are less likely to act up if they haven't got an audience. Discuss it with him openly and if he decides he wants to try and do better, give him the chance. If he decides he's leaving, then talk to his wife and tell her she's welcome to come back. If the guy doesn't do anything bad and just says he's not coming back, part as friends if you can - tell him he's also welcome to come back and try again if he wants to. This will prevent the wife from being ostracized by his actions.
Obviously if you wouldn't welcome him back, don't say you would. Play it by ear based on how he responds to a chat about it.
Yeah, I am less concerned that he is violent. I asked his friends who know him and they have told me that he and his wife fight a lot in front of people but they have never seen any violent behavior. Anyway, as I said in a subsequent post, there are three other guys with me at the table and usually the presence of reasonable men gives a violent one pause.
OT, but I am a former active duty Marine and it just occurred to me what the problem in my head is. Having interacted with a bunch of large, physically capable Marines I have noticed that the especially dangerous ones learned to be especially friendly and gracious since their presence alone was unnerving. I get nothing like that from this dude, so his violence status is in a black box.
A little pepper spray in my back pocket wouldn’t hurt I suppose...
I asked his friends who know him and they have told me that he and his wife fight a lot in front of people but they have never seen any violent behavior.
IMO... this couple, as a team, is starting to sound more and more like a problem as a unit. I am not sure at this point I would want to have them at the table... at least not together.
Extracting them is, of course, going to be the social problem. I'm not sure how I would handle it to be honest. I've never had to deal with something this extreme, thankfully.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I asked his friends who know him and they have told me that he and his wife fight a lot in front of people but they have never seen any violent behavior.
IMO... this couple, as a team, is starting to sound more and more like a problem as a unit. I am not sure at this point I would want to have them at the table... at least not together.
Extracting them is, of course, going to be the social problem. I'm not sure how I would handle it to be honest. I've never had to deal with something this extreme, thankfully.
They bicker at the table and make people uncomfortable, I have never seen it but I have heard that they will have full ob shouting matches in public.
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
Coming in late but I'll put my two cents in: it sounds like this guy is trying to "win" d&d, and maybe doesn't understand that d&d isn't the kind of game that you "win."
If he's new to ttrpg's in general, he might just think it works like WoW or something and he wants to grind for levels till he gets that third multiattack before everyone else. That videogame mentality is really common among new players (especially if it is more of a dungeon crawl, which many videogames more closely resemble), and I often find that you need to have the "it's more about the journey than the destination" talk with them.
That said, I'm basing this advice on the one example you gave of him trying to power-level off the flameskull. So I don't sound too "devil's advocate", I will say that the issue of his disregard for his fellow players and (if consciously done) his attempt to intimidate you as the DM are also big issues. But I think his understanding of what the game *is* is central to how he treats people at the table. If he thinks this is a game where fun is something you achieve by winning, he's probably not going to care about anyone else's and worry about his own, so he can get ahead and "win" more. Maybe he's over here wondering genuinely to himself why nobody else picked up on his cool Flameskull exploit and why they didn't join in? After all (from the perspective of the standard dudebro), you kill your friend in Halo you don't say sorry and let him kill you so it's even, you talk trash and git gud! If he thinks he's competing to be the best, everyone is gonna have a rough time.
But again, I don't know this guy, I wasn't at the table, I might be making the mistake of assuming this guy has good intentions deep down and just doesn't know what he's doing-- you're the best judge of that. For all I know he *is* acting maliciously and you're better off booting him, I just wasn't seeing this perspective in the discussion and thought I would bring it up in case this whole issue is based around a new players nosing misapprehension of the purpose of the game.
About the smashed mini thing, he might not know how much work goes into one, he might think it's just a cheap little bauble you spend 5 minutes painting one color or something ( which it isn't. ), and not a labor of love, I or another gamer would know you spend at least 3 or 4 hours painting it, a gamer's response would be "Oh crap!, geez I'm really, really sorry." and proceed to pay the dude 20 or 30 bucks for for the busted mini, but he probably thinks it's more like a toy soldier, some thing you have a small bucket full of, and that's not on him, but he also sounds like he has problems....
Sounds like he is purposely ruining the game so maybe she will become so embarassed that they will eventually not go anymore. I would call his wife and explain the deal and say she was more than welcome to come back and play but that you do not want him to play in the game no more. simple as that.
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That’s the worst of it. I really enjoy her. She came with ZERO expectations and at one point in the session I just saw her eyes light up as she realized that this was the greatest thing ever. She actually said “Ooh! This is like make believe, but better! I want to play!” Would suck if he ruined her time.
This is a completely non-viable situation. A DM cannot run a game while feeling under threat from the players if something happens to displease them.
I recommend talking to the wife. Explain to her that you feel this way and you cannot DM under these circumstances. Maybe she will have a solution, or maybe she will give him what-for at home.
But you simply cannot and must not DM while feeling like if you make a ruling that a player doesn't like you may be physically assaulted. This is completely unacceptable in an RPG.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Honestly I maybe overreacting he has not shown a propensity for violence. I know plenty of people who are aggressive, but not violent. Plus, he’d be fighting 4 dudes.
As a painter of miniatures, the figurine-slamming alone is unforgivable. If anyone I’d remotely want to be friends with did that, it had better be followed up by “oh my god I’m so sorry I feel so bad! can I please buy you a new one?” Destroying art by accident had better make someone feel like poop, unless they’re a completely miserable excuse for a friend.
The guy seems like an utter jerk and if I had to guess, he’s probably there to “keep an eye on” his wife. I’m no professional, but I would imagine with a guy that violent their relationship is somewhat abusive or at least screwed up. Most likely she’s not making him play, he’s jealous and stalking her. Gosh, I feel awful for her. (Note that this isn’t necessarily the case, but it sounds like it might be.)
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Thank you for the sympathy. I also paint figurines, as a beginner, and it took me about six hours to design and paint mine. His reaction was more of a “sorry man” than “Oh my god! I am so so sorry.” We were talking about how we could glue it so if I am being charitable he might not have thought it was that big of a deal.
As far as the misogyny angle goes they are both pretty terrible to each other much to the consternation of the group. I haven’t seen him do anything that suggests he is protective of her. I can’t say for sure but the way she reacts to him suggests that she is the stringer willed one in the relationship. That doesn’t mean she is not getting abused though. I sure hope she isn’t.
One thing I'll add, because there is A LOT of good advice here (and your plan to handle it sounds very very good):
Please do not make the issue with the husband into the wife's responsibility. Women in western societies are unfairly expected to handle emotional stressors far, far more than men are. This is the husband's issue, the husband is being the problem; it is NOT the responsibility of his wife, any more than any other PC at your table, to help stop the problem.
You can (and should) make her aware of the situation and any plans to boot him, but please do not put expectations on her to mediate the discussions. That goes double if you are already concerned about unhealthy behavior in their relationship.
This all sounds great but I would say for you, ease back a little, he is a brand new player so some of your rules will be a struggle regardless of his personality. The rules lawyer thing, across all the books there are alot of rules for a new player to learn, asking questions, respectfully, should be fine at your table, asking if a certain rule makes sense in a situation for a newbie should also be an ok thing to do. I get your table are very much about RAW but you have also all played the game.
Any threatening or inappropriate behaviour should be dealt with swiftly, make sure though that all these rules are laid out to him so he is fully aware of what happens if he breaks them. also don't aim your conversation at him, you are defining things for the group as a whole. Explain the reason behind every rule you are stating. "The game can get muddied down if we get into mechanics so as DM I can make a quick call and we can discuss after the game, everyone needs to have a chance to have their moment, and it can be fun to sit back and watch and engage with your fellow players etc.
I get he has pissed you off, and I get he sounds like that kid who we all had to deal with at school, but, don't go into the session looking for a reason to have a go at him or it will make the session horrible for you, be aware, be prepared, if you need to write a few things out and have them ready in your DM notes to say to him then do that, but, approach it the same way as any other session 0, maybe also take the chance to ask him how he is liking his character, how he is enjoying the game and what he wants to get out of it. It will help you and the other players understand where he is coming from and will make him start to feel part of the group and that his opinion matters. It might also help you shape the conversation in a way that explains this table might not be for him, he may well want a drink and kill group and it is clear your group is not that.
I would also tell the room that the whole point of DnD is escapism so, everyone try and leave any personal stuff at the door and just enjoy being someone different for a while. This is important for them as a couple, if they are the type to fight etc the you are subtly telling them that any issues they are having at hime, stay at the door and dont come to the table.
That’s good (I mean, as much as an adversarial relationship can be good!) Thanks for the update.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
People are making a lot of assumptions about the relationships of the people involved. As forum readers, who don't know any of these folks, we really should not speculate or comment upon this.
Regarding whether the husband intimidating the DM has shown actual violence, I submit this is irrelevant. The DM has said they feel intimidated by the player, to the point where the DM is almost afraid to do in-game things like attacks of opportunity. This is not acceptable. One cannot DM this way. The one player is ruining he campaign for everyone else. This must stop.
The ideal situation is to talk to the player, but if the DM feels physically intimidated by the player, this may not be workable as a solution. Banning the player might cause issues with the wife, who is also a player, and may resent her husband being ditched. Killing the PC off is not an option if the DM is intimidated just to make AoOs against the guy. I'm not sure there are any easy solutions here.
What I can say is that this situation would make me not want to DM anymore. At all.
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TY. That is why we are going to talk to her separately. My GF will talk to her just to suss put if she is actually the hidden problem, i.e. dragging him to sessions.
i had thought about going through her but I think, as other posters have pointed out, that robs him of his agency.
You know best out of all of us whether he is actually violent - all we have to go on is your words here. From what I read, it's not that he is violent but more that he is a big, somewhat obnoxious personality and also a well built person who could do some damage if they did turn to violence, and that this is intimidating to you as you feel like you're having to tell him off.
If he's genuinely seeming violent, you need to get shot of him. I'm always for talking things out, but a violent personality who might see things in a game as personal attacks just isn't suited for this sort of game, regardless of the body it comes in.
Now, if it's merely that he's (at risk of sounding like his antics are just "boys will be boys", which it ain't) "Boisterous" - loud and animated, basically - then this is something he can work on. It might be he's actually getting caught up too much in the game and is not brilliant at playing with others, and so got frustrated at being left to die repeatedly (this doesn't justify damaging the figurine, but it could explain it). From what I'm hearing, his issue is not that he doesn't enjoy the game, it's simply that he doesn't really know how to play it. It sounds like he compensates for not knowing what to do by doing the things that worked over and over, and byt getting frustrated that other players want to do different things instead.
If you think you can talk to him, do so. Don't talk to the wife as well, talk to her afterwards. The problem is his, not hers. Try to get him alone to chat - sometimes people are less likely to act up if they haven't got an audience. Discuss it with him openly and if he decides he wants to try and do better, give him the chance. If he decides he's leaving, then talk to his wife and tell her she's welcome to come back. If the guy doesn't do anything bad and just says he's not coming back, part as friends if you can - tell him he's also welcome to come back and try again if he wants to. This will prevent the wife from being ostracized by his actions.
Obviously if you wouldn't welcome him back, don't say you would. Play it by ear based on how he responds to a chat about it.
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Good advice. I don’t mind rules questions from the table, especially from new players it’s all in how you ask it, i.e. “My armor class should block that dude!!!” vs. “Is my armor class high enough to block that?”
Iam getting more of the former from that dude. It is really infuriating when you have played the game for almost 30 years and a green beginner thinks he can dictate the rules to you.
Yeah, I am less concerned that he is violent. I asked his friends who know him and they have told me that he and his wife fight a lot in front of people but they have never seen any violent behavior. Anyway, as I said in a subsequent post, there are three other guys with me at the table and usually the presence of reasonable men gives a violent one pause.
OT, but I am a former active duty Marine and it just occurred to me what the problem in my head is. Having interacted with a bunch of large, physically capable Marines I have noticed that the especially dangerous ones learned to be especially friendly and gracious since their presence alone was unnerving. I get nothing like that from this dude, so his violence status is in a black box.
A little pepper spray in my back pocket wouldn’t hurt I suppose...
Not unless it has to ;)
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IMO... this couple, as a team, is starting to sound more and more like a problem as a unit. I am not sure at this point I would want to have them at the table... at least not together.
Extracting them is, of course, going to be the social problem. I'm not sure how I would handle it to be honest. I've never had to deal with something this extreme, thankfully.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
They bicker at the table and make people uncomfortable, I have never seen it but I have heard that they will have full ob shouting matches in public.
That's just a no stop stop stop... If I was a player at your table I'd be "that's not why I'm here call me when it's sorted. BYE"
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
Coming in late but I'll put my two cents in: it sounds like this guy is trying to "win" d&d, and maybe doesn't understand that d&d isn't the kind of game that you "win."
If he's new to ttrpg's in general, he might just think it works like WoW or something and he wants to grind for levels till he gets that third multiattack before everyone else. That videogame mentality is really common among new players (especially if it is more of a dungeon crawl, which many videogames more closely resemble), and I often find that you need to have the "it's more about the journey than the destination" talk with them.
That said, I'm basing this advice on the one example you gave of him trying to power-level off the flameskull. So I don't sound too "devil's advocate", I will say that the issue of his disregard for his fellow players and (if consciously done) his attempt to intimidate you as the DM are also big issues. But I think his understanding of what the game *is* is central to how he treats people at the table. If he thinks this is a game where fun is something you achieve by winning, he's probably not going to care about anyone else's and worry about his own, so he can get ahead and "win" more. Maybe he's over here wondering genuinely to himself why nobody else picked up on his cool Flameskull exploit and why they didn't join in? After all (from the perspective of the standard dudebro), you kill your friend in Halo you don't say sorry and let him kill you so it's even, you talk trash and git gud! If he thinks he's competing to be the best, everyone is gonna have a rough time.
But again, I don't know this guy, I wasn't at the table, I might be making the mistake of assuming this guy has good intentions deep down and just doesn't know what he's doing-- you're the best judge of that. For all I know he *is* acting maliciously and you're better off booting him, I just wasn't seeing this perspective in the discussion and thought I would bring it up in case this whole issue is based around a new players nosing misapprehension of the purpose of the game.
About the smashed mini thing, he might not know how much work goes into one, he might think it's just a cheap little bauble you spend 5 minutes painting one color or something ( which it isn't. ), and not a labor of love, I or another gamer would know you spend at least 3 or 4 hours painting it, a gamer's response would be "Oh crap!, geez I'm really, really sorry." and proceed to pay the dude 20 or 30 bucks for for the busted mini, but he probably thinks it's more like a toy soldier, some thing you have a small bucket full of, and that's not on him, but he also sounds like he has problems....
Mystic v3 should be official, nuff said.
Sounds like he is purposely ruining the game so maybe she will become so embarassed that they will eventually not go anymore. I would call his wife and explain the deal and say she was more than welcome to come back and play but that you do not want him to play in the game no more. simple as that.