My group is only 2 people, and we are level 4. One character switched his subclass without really telling me from Rune Knight to echo knight, and then took a level in wizard. He now does 5 attacks 1st turn. it's breaking the game as my other player (a mage) isn't that strong and it's his first time even playing an RPG. I could just have a whole mess of really high HP enemies, but I fear that would be very difficult for the mage to keep up.
From what I see, this would be a case of having enemies that cannot be taken out instantly, such as being able to teleport as a reaction similarly to what Archfey warlock gets. Even if the person has their copy they are limited in how far they can move it and how many times their Unleash Incarnation can be used. So, I don't think stronger enemies are the solution, but rather a larger number of weaker enemies with special traits to mess up the battle. I've seen an echo knight cream a Fomorian in two rounds, but struggle when faced against mobile and evasive enemies that the mage in turn would have an easier time against with spells.
The copy also has just 1 hp, just saying that if the fighter isn't careful it is very easy to just smack it into oblivion and they need to waste a bonus action to get it back again over and over.
I totally understand that life can get in the way, and that is why you have an option to ask here for advice. I can promise there is a lot of gms who have similar experiences, myself included. On the top of my head, some fitting enemies I would recommend using are Zombies. You can never go wrong with a good zombie and their habit of not dying has made for a lot of frustration in my players. Quicklings are also fun because enemies have a disadvantage on all attacks, and they have a solid +8 to hit.
If you really want to **** with your players the new book has the carrionettes, which has the nasty ability to curse people into subtracting 1d4 from attacks. They can also steal their bodies which would be a whole plot in itself. Plus, they appear like your run of the mill toys when not moving, så element of surprise can be found in a group suddenly being assaulted by a teddy bear with a scary needle.
Don't be afraid to step outside the box, do things differently or just mess with your players. I had them fight a large eye they could not attack, instead, they had to destroy several chains holding it anchored to reality, it had legendary actions to roll a sort of wheel with effects depending on what chains were still around.
The paladin's horse got turned into a cow... and the wizard got mind-controlled into fighting for the eye, blasting the fighter with a fireball... good times.
ha, this is basically my final fight! I have a fey wizard messing with time on an island. They'll need to destroy the fey strands powering the device to finish the campaign
How is he doing 5 attacks in a round at level 4 as a fighter3/wizard1? I could see attack, action surge and attack again, then bonus action off hand to get 3 in a round (and that could only happen 1/short rest), but otherwise, I'm stumped.
Oh, I see now. He's attacking, then the level 3 feature lets the echo make a melee attack (well, lets him make a melee attack from the echo's position). Then action surge, which would let him do that all over. Then off-hand. Is that what's happening? Because that actually is RAW.
Still though he can only action surge 1/short rest. And can only use the echo knight feature con bonus/long rest. So the solution is to have more fights per long rest so he runs out of his resources, or at least has to think them through a bit better. And make sure the echo attacks are melee. if there's no enemy next to the echo, he can't use the feature.
Yup waves of enemies will help with this. He only gets one action surge per short rest so hit them with a few waves of beasties. Lots of low level critters would be a nightmare for him, and possibly let the mage shine.
I would also have a talk with the player about switching *anything* without permission. Nip that in the bud or you will find yourself GMing for the internet's latest power build every week.
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Hello
My group is only 2 people, and we are level 4. One character switched his subclass without really telling me from Rune Knight to echo knight, and then took a level in wizard. He now does 5 attacks 1st turn. it's breaking the game as my other player (a mage) isn't that strong and it's his first time even playing an RPG. I could just have a whole mess of really high HP enemies, but I fear that would be very difficult for the mage to keep up.
How do other DMs deal with the wave echo knight?
From what I see, this would be a case of having enemies that cannot be taken out instantly, such as being able to teleport as a reaction similarly to what Archfey warlock gets. Even if the person has their copy they are limited in how far they can move it and how many times their Unleash Incarnation can be used. So, I don't think stronger enemies are the solution, but rather a larger number of weaker enemies with special traits to mess up the battle. I've seen an echo knight cream a Fomorian in two rounds, but struggle when faced against mobile and evasive enemies that the mage in turn would have an easier time against with spells.
The copy also has just 1 hp, just saying that if the fighter isn't careful it is very easy to just smack it into oblivion and they need to waste a bonus action to get it back again over and over.
thanks
another problem compounding this is that I have a kid and a job, and the pc has neither, so he has a lot more time to figure these things out
I totally understand that life can get in the way, and that is why you have an option to ask here for advice. I can promise there is a lot of gms who have similar experiences, myself included. On the top of my head, some fitting enemies I would recommend using are Zombies. You can never go wrong with a good zombie and their habit of not dying has made for a lot of frustration in my players. Quicklings are also fun because enemies have a disadvantage on all attacks, and they have a solid +8 to hit.
If you really want to **** with your players the new book has the carrionettes, which has the nasty ability to curse people into subtracting 1d4 from attacks. They can also steal their bodies which would be a whole plot in itself. Plus, they appear like your run of the mill toys when not moving, så element of surprise can be found in a group suddenly being assaulted by a teddy bear with a scary needle.
thanks
we've done zombies, the carrionettes sound interesting, as does the archfey mage. I could use more builds for sure though
Don't be afraid to step outside the box, do things differently or just mess with your players. I had them fight a large eye they could not attack, instead, they had to destroy several chains holding it anchored to reality, it had legendary actions to roll a sort of wheel with effects depending on what chains were still around.
The paladin's horse got turned into a cow... and the wizard got mind-controlled into fighting for the eye, blasting the fighter with a fireball... good times.
ha, this is basically my final fight! I have a fey wizard messing with time on an island. They'll need to destroy the fey strands powering the device to finish the campaign
How is he doing 5 attacks in a round at level 4 as a fighter3/wizard1? I could see attack, action surge and attack again, then bonus action off hand to get 3 in a round (and that could only happen 1/short rest), but otherwise, I'm stumped.
does the bonus attack from action surge not grant the echo an attack? maybe it's just 4 attacks that first turn
Oh, I see now. He's attacking, then the level 3 feature lets the echo make a melee attack (well, lets him make a melee attack from the echo's position). Then action surge, which would let him do that all over. Then off-hand. Is that what's happening? Because that actually is RAW.
Still though he can only action surge 1/short rest. And can only use the echo knight feature con bonus/long rest. So the solution is to have more fights per long rest so he runs out of his resources, or at least has to think them through a bit better. And make sure the echo attacks are melee. if there's no enemy next to the echo, he can't use the feature.
Yup waves of enemies will help with this. He only gets one action surge per short rest so hit them with a few waves of beasties. Lots of low level critters would be a nightmare for him, and possibly let the mage shine.
I would also have a talk with the player about switching *anything* without permission. Nip that in the bud or you will find yourself GMing for the internet's latest power build every week.