I'm now three sessions into my first campaign (running Lost Mine of Phandelver). We've finished the first dungeon of the adventure and have been using an battle grid for every encounter thus far. Upon finishing the most recent session, I felt that I leaned too heavily on the map/grid and should have left more of the dungeon encounter to the player's imagination.
I would love to hear how other DM's balance the use of a map/battle grid versus describing the environment/encounter via Theatre of the Mind.
I find that where there are more location-specific tactical “opportunities”,, or highly complicated maps that would be difficult to keep track of, a map is a must.
Usually, though, if the encounter doesn’t really need a map, i don’t pull one out.
A lot of it becomes part of the expectation level you set with the group. Inexperienced players may prefer the ease of a map. Veteran players may be comfortable with no map. It comes down to them, you, and the experience you’re all after.
Hey, pal!!! Glad to here your getting into Dungeons and Dragons! I'll get right down to the topic. What I normally do, to describe encounters for the player, is give them a measurement in feet if they ask, describe objects around them if they do a perception check, and try to make the battles feel like arena showdowns, but the players have the options to use the environment around them to try creative things, like set up traps and check statistics on the enemy, and get to cover to dodge enemy attacks. The key here, is to try and get the players to imagine the battlefield that they are fighting on, as a three dimensional imagine in their minds. So, here's an example. Let's say this, a party of three people are walking through a mines, and see four goblins standing about thirty feet (about one turn for Wizard characters to reach) away from them... They see the stone walls, the wooden beams holding the stone above them in place, to make sure that the mines don't cave in, and a small lamb, casting a beam of light, that reaches 15 feet diameter. Try something like that, and make sure to be descriptive!!!
I actually just use a large white board to mark players, enemies, and environment. This allows me to show some rough scale/distance, without being a stickler for grid maps (no offense meant to those who enjoy grids). Any environment changes can be easily added if a spell causes a long term effect on the encounter space (like if my players start a forest fire). Also, the utility of the erasable board allows me to show the players any writing, runes, or symbols they may need to see.
I've only ever used grids/battlemats in 5e, and I feel like they slow things to a crawl. I spent some time playing Dungeon World, and the combat system there is entirely narrative (you don't even roll initiative), which I absolutely loved (even if it created its own set of problems) and made me really want to try doing a D&D campaign entirely (or at least mostly) theater of the mind style. I came across a couple really good articles from Sly Flourish about it that you may find useful:
I've only ever did theater of the mind. I've also used rolling initiative off and on. When I did roll initiative as a rule I've done it both ways per round and per encounter. We were pretty experienced so either way worked well for us. Even when I could just make a judgement call on who had initiative it worked well for us.
However there was a time recently as a player the rookie DM was set on using markers for us, which I was into but it didn't really work out. I suspect it was the DMs lack of experience rather than using markers. I'm starting a new campaign and I do want to use figures and a grid and I've been considering the balance between the theater of the mind. I think I'll only be using the grid during a few of the encounters. Specifically where there are multiple baddies.
I've been experimenting with Dungeon Fog thinking I could use it like an ever moving grid and map and I think eventually it will but right now it doesnt really have that functionality that they have demonstrated. So I'm hopeful.
Finding the right balance is a matter of taste, both for the DM and the players. Though using a grid certainly has its drawbacks, I find it helps me most of all when running an encounter, because I don't have to keep track of everyone's location in my head; I've already got enough info to remember.
I'm in a game now as a player that my DM is running entirely Theatre of the Mind, and it's led to a bit of frustration on all our parts. I think being a little looser with movement rules, attacks of opportunity, etc. would smooth over some of the misunderstandings that naturally arise from interpreting a described scene.
The earlier reply mentioning a white board sounds like a great compromise; the players (and the DM!) can all easily see and understand the approximate layout of a scene, without having to get bogged down in the rigidity if a grid.
I'm in a game now as a player that my DM is running entirely Theatre of the Mind, and it's led to a bit of frustration on all our parts. I think being a little looser with movement rules, attacks of opportunity, etc. would smooth over some of the misunderstandings that naturally arise from interpreting a described scene.
Okay, wow, yeah. I can't imagine using a more narrative combat style while still being a stickler for movement rules. Movement distance is necessarily abstracted in this style to free up different ways of approaching a combat encounter; if you don't do that you're just playing with the grid in your brain instead of on the table.
If I might, I'd suggest your DM read the Sly Flourish articles I shared above.
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DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder) Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
Me too!!! I bought in and am frustrated the the notes they demo arent even available yet.
I'm building my first dungeon in my new campaign using it and there are some things I dig about it but I am a little irritated. I can't see them getting where they want by the 1.0 Beta...We'll see. I'm rooting for them!
Because of that I am taking a closer look at roll20.net...
I've only ever used grids/battlemats in 5e, and I feel like they slow things to a crawl. I spent some time playing Dungeon World, and the combat system there is entirely narrative (you don't even roll initiative), which I absolutely loved (even if it created its own set of problems) and made me really want to try doing a D&D campaign entirely (or at least mostly) theater of the mind style. I came across a couple really good articles from Sly Flourish about it that you may find useful:
Let us know what you end up doing and how it goes!
I thoroughly enjoyed reading those articles, thanks for sharing. I use mostly theatre of the mind for my game but I often use graph paper or rough maps to track movement and distance behind the DM screen. Im going to experiment with some ofthe techniques in the articles and see what works best for me.
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Adventure's I've published on DMs Guild: The Temple of Bhaal - A gothic horror themed "one-shot" single session adventure for 1st level characters. The Palace of Evendur - An ethereal fairy tale "one-shot" single session adventure for 1st level characters.
I usually lean towards theater of mind. I recently picked up a dry-erase battle map, so if my players ask for a map I can just quickly sketch one out for them. Otherwise the only time I use them is for a dungeon crawl / lair.
I started in 1e playing theater of the mind. At best we sketched the area and left it at that.
Come 3e/PF and it's tactic based combat we switched to the grid.
In 5e, as the DM, I go back and forth. Maps are relatively easy to come by (thanks WoTC :)) and we use a projector to project the maps on the table (we are older and have resources). I feel the grid does dull the imagination a little. Our last few sessions we have been on the road and I went theater of the mind as I was too lazy to even download maps. It was great! I had players jumping off of wagons and tumbling through trees.
I haven't totally forgone the grid but I think I will cut back for most encounters.
Just my 1.14 Rubles
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Hey guys,
I'm now three sessions into my first campaign (running Lost Mine of Phandelver). We've finished the first dungeon of the adventure and have been using an battle grid for every encounter thus far. Upon finishing the most recent session, I felt that I leaned too heavily on the map/grid and should have left more of the dungeon encounter to the player's imagination.
I would love to hear how other DM's balance the use of a map/battle grid versus describing the environment/encounter via Theatre of the Mind.
Thanks in advance and happy gaming!
I find that where there are more location-specific tactical “opportunities”,, or highly complicated maps that would be difficult to keep track of, a map is a must.
Usually, though, if the encounter doesn’t really need a map, i don’t pull one out.
A lot of it becomes part of the expectation level you set with the group. Inexperienced players may prefer the ease of a map. Veteran players may be comfortable with no map. It comes down to them, you, and the experience you’re all after.
Hey, pal!!! Glad to here your getting into Dungeons and Dragons! I'll get right down to the topic. What I normally do, to describe encounters for the player, is give them a measurement in feet if they ask, describe objects around them if they do a perception check, and try to make the battles feel like arena showdowns, but the players have the options to use the environment around them to try creative things, like set up traps and check statistics on the enemy, and get to cover to dodge enemy attacks. The key here, is to try and get the players to imagine the battlefield that they are fighting on, as a three dimensional imagine in their minds. So, here's an example. Let's say this, a party of three people are walking through a mines, and see four goblins standing about thirty feet (about one turn for Wizard characters to reach) away from them... They see the stone walls, the wooden beams holding the stone above them in place, to make sure that the mines don't cave in, and a small lamb, casting a beam of light, that reaches 15 feet diameter. Try something like that, and make sure to be descriptive!!!
Best of luck!!
~Warrior
I actually just use a large white board to mark players, enemies, and environment. This allows me to show some rough scale/distance, without being a stickler for grid maps (no offense meant to those who enjoy grids). Any environment changes can be easily added if a spell causes a long term effect on the encounter space (like if my players start a forest fire). Also, the utility of the erasable board allows me to show the players any writing, runes, or symbols they may need to see.
I've only ever used grids/battlemats in 5e, and I feel like they slow things to a crawl. I spent some time playing Dungeon World, and the combat system there is entirely narrative (you don't even roll initiative), which I absolutely loved (even if it created its own set of problems) and made me really want to try doing a D&D campaign entirely (or at least mostly) theater of the mind style. I came across a couple really good articles from Sly Flourish about it that you may find useful:
The Tyranny of the Grid
Sly Flourish's Guide to Narrative "Theater of the Mind" Combat in the 5th Edition of Dungeons & Dragons
Let us know what you end up doing and how it goes!
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder)
Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
I've only ever did theater of the mind. I've also used rolling initiative off and on. When I did roll initiative as a rule I've done it both ways per round and per encounter. We were pretty experienced so either way worked well for us. Even when I could just make a judgement call on who had initiative it worked well for us.
However there was a time recently as a player the rookie DM was set on using markers for us, which I was into but it didn't really work out. I suspect it was the DMs lack of experience rather than using markers. I'm starting a new campaign and I do want to use figures and a grid and I've been considering the balance between the theater of the mind. I think I'll only be using the grid during a few of the encounters. Specifically where there are multiple baddies.
I've been experimenting with Dungeon Fog thinking I could use it like an ever moving grid and map and I think eventually it will but right now it doesnt really have that functionality that they have demonstrated. So I'm hopeful.
I can't wait for Dungeon Fog to actually do what it's supposed to do haha
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder)
Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
Finding the right balance is a matter of taste, both for the DM and the players. Though using a grid certainly has its drawbacks, I find it helps me most of all when running an encounter, because I don't have to keep track of everyone's location in my head; I've already got enough info to remember.
I'm in a game now as a player that my DM is running entirely Theatre of the Mind, and it's led to a bit of frustration on all our parts. I think being a little looser with movement rules, attacks of opportunity, etc. would smooth over some of the misunderstandings that naturally arise from interpreting a described scene.
The earlier reply mentioning a white board sounds like a great compromise; the players (and the DM!) can all easily see and understand the approximate layout of a scene, without having to get bogged down in the rigidity if a grid.
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder)
Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
Me too!!! I bought in and am frustrated the the notes they demo arent even available yet.
I'm building my first dungeon in my new campaign using it and there are some things I dig about it but I am a little irritated. I can't see them getting where they want by the 1.0 Beta...We'll see. I'm rooting for them!
Because of that I am taking a closer look at roll20.net...
Seth
Adventure's I've published on DMs Guild:
The Temple of Bhaal - A gothic horror themed "one-shot" single session adventure for 1st level characters.
The Palace of Evendur - An ethereal fairy tale "one-shot" single session adventure for 1st level characters.
My DnD Play Podcast:
Monday Night Smite: a D&D Play Podcast
I usually lean towards theater of mind. I recently picked up a dry-erase battle map, so if my players ask for a map I can just quickly sketch one out for them. Otherwise the only time I use them is for a dungeon crawl / lair.
IG + Twitter: dan_reave
I started in 1e playing theater of the mind. At best we sketched the area and left it at that.
Come 3e/PF and it's tactic based combat we switched to the grid.
In 5e, as the DM, I go back and forth. Maps are relatively easy to come by (thanks WoTC :)) and we use a projector to project the maps on the table (we are older and have resources). I feel the grid does dull the imagination a little. Our last few sessions we have been on the road and I went theater of the mind as I was too lazy to even download maps. It was great! I had players jumping off of wagons and tumbling through trees.
I haven't totally forgone the grid but I think I will cut back for most encounters.
Just my 1.14 Rubles