If your players are comfortable with it and you yourself are comfortable with it, having a minor as an adventurer can be fun. Their age doesn't need to be highlighted, either. Most of the time, people forgot my fighter was still a kid, and she didn't view herself as one. Also, you can elect not to throw too dark of a plot at your players, and ignore the fridge horror. If you can't or don't want to, then maybe a kid adventurer is not right for your campaign.
Well said, but it’s also worth noting that kids develop fast and there’s a big difference between a seventeen-year-old (probably fine), a fourteen-year-old (nope), and an eleven-year-old (hell to the no). Honestly I think this whole thread has been a little too black and white.
If your players are comfortable with it and you yourself are comfortable with it, having a minor as an adventurer can be fun. Their age doesn't need to be highlighted, either. Most of the time, people forgot my fighter was still a kid, and she didn't view herself as one. Also, you can elect not to throw too dark of a plot at your players, and ignore the fridge horror. If you can't or don't want to, then maybe a kid adventurer is not right for your campaign.
Well said, but it’s also worth noting that kids develop fast and there’s a big difference between a seventeen-year-old (probably fine), a fourteen-year-old (nope), and an eleven-year-old (hell to the no). Honestly I think this whole thread has been a little too black and white.
This is also true. And had my 17yo been innocent and wide-eyed instead of centered, brassy and tough, it would have been a different story as well. Character personality can play a huge factor. I had a late 20s, bleeding heart druid pacifist who hid behind her brother all the time because she lacked confidence. Story beats utterly scarred her that my teen fighter would have laughed off.
Context also matters. Would I play a 12 year old in a lighthearted campaign where mature themes weren't going to be explored and character death isn't really a risk? Yeah, maybe. Would I roll up a 12 year old for Tomb of Annihilation? Absolutely not.
I don't know. I think a lot of good efforts were put in this thread to assert that childhood is not a static concept historically or even within a given moment. It's a nuanced decision, on a table by table basis and any given table may not rule consistently depending on the concept and what the player may want to achieve. That said, some players and DMs treat it as a black and white issue for very understandable reasons. I think there's been a good spectrum of responses to the question, which was a bit more absolutist in formulation but was confronted with nuanced thinking from like the 2nd or 3rd posting. Your 17/14/11 scale is your 17/14/11 scale. Someone who wants to play Arya Stark at age 11 won't fit into your game, but could fit elsewhere, and no one's doing anything wrong if the right level of consideration is applied in session 0, just like every other topic addressed in Session 0 boundaries discussion.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The real crux of the discussion is that it doesn't matter what childhood was historically or whether it's realistic for adventurers to be children. The main point is what your group wants to have at their table, the only society that matters in this discussion is the one the players live in.
So long as you as the DM and your players are okay with a young adventerer then I don't see the problem. There is a reason why you see so many young protagonists in fiction and fantasy novels from characters like Harry Potter, Arya Stark, Percy Jackson, Andrew 'Ender,' Wiggin, Katniss Everdeen etc just to name a few. The idea being character development and the age old coming of age story arch.
It's really up to preference. Me personally, I try not to let players play underage just because our groups tend to have boundaries with doing harm or having relationships with underage individuals, and we tend to keep it at that. If it's a matter of ages calculating to something else (i.e. Orcs and Dragonborn tend to age faster), then we try to keep it as close to 18+ as possible, or just try to translate ages as best as we can if they were in human years and run with it. I ultimately find that it's just not worth it to run the risk of dealing with that sort of trouble.
It is worth mentioning that different races have different lifespans. A 10-year-old human is a kid, an elf is basically a baby, and an aaracockra is a middle-aged adult. But for your main question: I don't know if I'd allow a player to play as a 10-year-old human or younger in a violent game. It doesn't feel right.
In most DND worlds, and much of our real one’s history, a 15 year old is an adult.
8 year old drummer boys in the US Civil War (Edward Black).
As long as everyone understands that “children” may be dying in the game, go for it.
I think the problem is that most people seem to be against it though, so in essence it is okay saying go for it so long as everyone understands, but in reality people who want to play young adventurers never actually get to play them because someone will object. My curiosity is with why people object because in my exprience most games don't actually involve that much material that is 18+, but then, that could be a cultural issue since being european we have different views where drinking and nudity are cocnerned etc.
In most DND worlds, and much of our real one’s history, a 15 year old is an adult.
8 year old drummer boys in the US Civil War (Edward Black).
As long as everyone understands that “children” may be dying in the game, go for it.
I think the problem is that most people seem to be against it though, so in essence it is okay saying go for it so long as everyone understands, but in reality people who want to play young adventurers never actually get to play them because someone will object. My curiosity is with why people object because in my exprience most games don't actually involve that much material that is 18+, but then, that could be a cultural issue since being european we have different views where drinking and nudity are cocnerned etc.
Sometimes it's the drinking/nudity/etc. but more commonly it's violence and death. There are a lot of people that have either personally experienced violence towards children or at least are friends with people who have firsthand experience.
In most DND worlds, and much of our real one’s history, a 15 year old is an adult.
8 year old drummer boys in the US Civil War (Edward Black).
As long as everyone understands that “children” may be dying in the game, go for it.
I think the problem is that most people seem to be against it though, so in essence it is okay saying go for it so long as everyone understands, but in reality people who want to play young adventurers never actually get to play them because someone will object. My curiosity is with why people object because in my exprience most games don't actually involve that much material that is 18+, but then, that could be a cultural issue since being european we have different views where drinking and nudity are cocnerned etc.
Sometimes it's the drinking/nudity/etc. but more commonly it's violence and death. There are a lot of people that have either personally experienced violence towards children or at least are friends with people who have firsthand experience.
I agree; especially when you have stereotypical murder hobos or bards in the group, sometimes it can be hard to avoid topics that usually you want to reserve for more mature audiences (violence and gore, sex and romance, substance abuse, etc.). For what it's worth, I once played in a campaign where there was a bit of a creepy fella who was obsessed with making a joke character who would try to take on a younger appearance thanks to a Potion of Longevity in order to try to lure pedophiles into traps... Things IMMEDIATELY got uncomfortable in our group and the campaign fell apart. (Was also just generally creepy about trying to make inappropriate moves on our younger female PCs in game who were very explicitly expressing romantic interests towards each other and none towards him, soooo... :\\\)
Regardless, it's too much work in my own personal book trying to dance around those subjects when younger players are around because then it sorta just ties your hands behind your back in the worst ways possible. If you're the kind of DM that just strays from those topics in the first place, I think you ought to be fine. I'm just used to a bunch of heathens in my groups. :P
To be honest, I’ve rarely encountered situations where the characters’ exact age mattered.
The L1 fighter might be 16 or 20…. Does it really matter?
A long time ago I played in a campaign where the party were family retainers for a young lordling NPC…. Father had died and he inherited at a young age, snd it was up to us to help him run his holdings, keep him alive, mentor him, etc. I think he started the campaign at 14.
Thats the only time relative ages were an issue that I can think of
In most DND worlds, and much of our real one’s history, a 15 year old is an adult.
8 year old drummer boys in the US Civil War (Edward Black).
As long as everyone understands that “children” may be dying in the game, go for it.
I think the problem is that most people seem to be against it though, so in essence it is okay saying go for it so long as everyone understands, but in reality people who want to play young adventurers never actually get to play them because someone will object. My curiosity is with why people object because in my exprience most games don't actually involve that much material that is 18+, but then, that could be a cultural issue since being european we have different views where drinking and nudity are cocnerned etc.
Sometimes it's the drinking/nudity/etc. but more commonly it's violence and death. There are a lot of people that have either personally experienced violence towards children or at least are friends with people who have firsthand experience.
I agree; especially when you have stereotypical murder hobos or bards in the group, sometimes it can be hard to avoid topics that usually you want to reserve for more mature audiences (violence and gore, sex and romance, substance abuse, etc.). For what it's worth, I once played in a campaign where there was a bit of a creepy fella who was obsessed with making a joke character who would try to take on a younger appearance thanks to a Potion of Longevity in order to try to lure pedophiles into traps... Things IMMEDIATELY got uncomfortable in our group and the campaign fell apart. (Was also just generally creepy about trying to make inappropriate moves on our younger female PCs in game who were very explicitly expressing romantic interests towards each other and none towards him, soooo... :\\\)
Fair, actually- I only really cite it just because it was a powerful experience that has sorta soured the idea of underage PCs for me. But yeah, it's not something that people should ordinarily expect. End of the day, I think you just need to have some established trust with players if you want to be putting minors in situations that could potentially get bad so that you know to try to work together to keep away from that happening. If you feel like those boundaries can be kept, I say go for it, but proceed with caution if you feel there are any doubts.
I allow underage character and do not penalyze ability scores. There's teenagers in history that showed exceptional strenght, agility, intelligence etc
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Well said, but it’s also worth noting that kids develop fast and there’s a big difference between a seventeen-year-old (probably fine), a fourteen-year-old (nope), and an eleven-year-old (hell to the no). Honestly I think this whole thread has been a little too black and white.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
This is also true. And had my 17yo been innocent and wide-eyed instead of centered, brassy and tough, it would have been a different story as well. Character personality can play a huge factor. I had a late 20s, bleeding heart druid pacifist who hid behind her brother all the time because she lacked confidence. Story beats utterly scarred her that my teen fighter would have laughed off.
Context also matters. Would I play a 12 year old in a lighthearted campaign where mature themes weren't going to be explored and character death isn't really a risk? Yeah, maybe. Would I roll up a 12 year old for Tomb of Annihilation? Absolutely not.
I don't know. I think a lot of good efforts were put in this thread to assert that childhood is not a static concept historically or even within a given moment. It's a nuanced decision, on a table by table basis and any given table may not rule consistently depending on the concept and what the player may want to achieve. That said, some players and DMs treat it as a black and white issue for very understandable reasons. I think there's been a good spectrum of responses to the question, which was a bit more absolutist in formulation but was confronted with nuanced thinking from like the 2nd or 3rd posting. Your 17/14/11 scale is your 17/14/11 scale. Someone who wants to play Arya Stark at age 11 won't fit into your game, but could fit elsewhere, and no one's doing anything wrong if the right level of consideration is applied in session 0, just like every other topic addressed in Session 0 boundaries discussion.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The real crux of the discussion is that it doesn't matter what childhood was historically or whether it's realistic for adventurers to be children. The main point is what your group wants to have at their table, the only society that matters in this discussion is the one the players live in.
So long as you as the DM and your players are okay with a young adventerer then I don't see the problem. There is a reason why you see so many young protagonists in fiction and fantasy novels from characters like Harry Potter, Arya Stark, Percy Jackson, Andrew 'Ender,' Wiggin, Katniss Everdeen etc just to name a few. The idea being character development and the age old coming of age story arch.
In most DND worlds, and much of our real one’s history, a 15 year old is an adult.
8 year old drummer boys in the US Civil War (Edward Black).
As long as everyone understands that “children” may be dying in the game, go for it.
It's really up to preference. Me personally, I try not to let players play underage just because our groups tend to have boundaries with doing harm or having relationships with underage individuals, and we tend to keep it at that. If it's a matter of ages calculating to something else (i.e. Orcs and Dragonborn tend to age faster), then we try to keep it as close to 18+ as possible, or just try to translate ages as best as we can if they were in human years and run with it. I ultimately find that it's just not worth it to run the risk of dealing with that sort of trouble.
It is worth mentioning that different races have different lifespans. A 10-year-old human is a kid, an elf is basically a baby, and an aaracockra is a middle-aged adult. But for your main question: I don't know if I'd allow a player to play as a 10-year-old human or younger in a violent game. It doesn't feel right.
I think the problem is that most people seem to be against it though, so in essence it is okay saying go for it so long as everyone understands, but in reality people who want to play young adventurers never actually get to play them because someone will object. My curiosity is with why people object because in my exprience most games don't actually involve that much material that is 18+, but then, that could be a cultural issue since being european we have different views where drinking and nudity are cocnerned etc.
Sometimes it's the drinking/nudity/etc. but more commonly it's violence and death. There are a lot of people that have either personally experienced violence towards children or at least are friends with people who have firsthand experience.
I agree; especially when you have stereotypical murder hobos or bards in the group, sometimes it can be hard to avoid topics that usually you want to reserve for more mature audiences (violence and gore, sex and romance, substance abuse, etc.). For what it's worth, I once played in a campaign where there was a bit of a creepy fella who was obsessed with making a joke character who would try to take on a younger appearance thanks to a Potion of Longevity in order to try to lure pedophiles into traps... Things IMMEDIATELY got uncomfortable in our group and the campaign fell apart. (Was also just generally creepy about trying to make inappropriate moves on our younger female PCs in game who were very explicitly expressing romantic interests towards each other and none towards him, soooo... :\\\)
Regardless, it's too much work in my own personal book trying to dance around those subjects when younger players are around because then it sorta just ties your hands behind your back in the worst ways possible. If you're the kind of DM that just strays from those topics in the first place, I think you ought to be fine. I'm just used to a bunch of heathens in my groups. :P
To be honest, I’ve rarely encountered situations where the characters’ exact age mattered.
The L1 fighter might be 16 or 20…. Does it really matter?
A long time ago I played in a campaign where the party were family retainers for a young lordling NPC…. Father had died and he inherited at a young age, snd it was up to us to help him run his holdings, keep him alive, mentor him, etc. I think he started the campaign at 14.
Thats the only time relative ages were an issue that I can think of
That’s a player problem, not a character problem.
Fair, actually- I only really cite it just because it was a powerful experience that has sorta soured the idea of underage PCs for me. But yeah, it's not something that people should ordinarily expect. End of the day, I think you just need to have some established trust with players if you want to be putting minors in situations that could potentially get bad so that you know to try to work together to keep away from that happening. If you feel like those boundaries can be kept, I say go for it, but proceed with caution if you feel there are any doubts.
I allow underage character and do not penalyze ability scores. There's teenagers in history that showed exceptional strenght, agility, intelligence etc