I want to ensure I'm running an encounter correctly in the event that a group surprises a monster.
The PHB states that in the event of a surprise. Who is surprised is determined, then everyone rolls initiative and the surprised monster gets no actions during the surprise.
This seems off to me. In the past, the surprise attacker got a free round, but not the entire group. In the event of a bad roll, a single monster could have basically 10 attacks against him from a group of five players before he could respond.
Also to point, say a character sneaks up for the surprise, but if you have five characters that are going to surprise the monster, (get a free surprise attack) then ALL of them should roll stealth and the monster should get five perception rolls. One against each player sneaking up on them and if he detects any of them approaching. Then the surprise is broken for all of them.
Anyhow, your thoughts please. :)
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So you're reading right, and a surprise round can be powerful, although they're very rare in my experience. If 1 character sneaks up and gets a surprise attack everyone rolls initiative and the monster spends its entire 1st round surprised. But unless everyone snuck up or they laid an ambush for an incoming monster the rest of the party will need to move up first to attack. If they're close enough to get in melee range and attack same turn they need to also be rolling stealth and anyone failing means everyone fails. You may get some long ranged mage or archer pot shots that first round but if they came up with a solid strategy, executed, and the dice are with them than I say let them have it. They've earned it and they'll feel like badasses
Guess what. You aren't running surprise correctly. It's really hard to run surprise correctly, because there are numerous applicable rules spread across different parts of the rulebooks, and they're pretty subtle.
You're actually right that if five PCs sneak up on a monster, they all need to roll Stealth checks. The monster does not roll Perception 5 times, because you just use its passive Perception (10 plus its Perception modifier, if given in the stat block, or plus Wis if not).
If you roll 5 Stealth checks, at least one is likely to fail, and then surprise is basically worthless. Technically, the monster is still unaware of the creatures that succeeded on Stealth until their turn, but it doesn't really matter since the monster still has a target in the first round and doesn't lose its action.
So tactically, you might want to have only one or a few of your PCs attempt surprise. If other PCs hang back 30 - 60 feet, I don't make them roll Stealth. They don't participate in the "surprise round", except to Dash into the fray.
The same, of course, goes when monsters want to surprise PCs. Each monster that wants to act in the surprise round must roll Stealth. Each roll is compared to each PC's passive Perception. Some PCs might be surprised and not others. PCs that win the Perception vs. Stealth are not surprised and can act on their turn. Those that are surprised don't act or move.
Keep in mind surprised creatures do have a turn, they just can't act. But having a turn might matter for some spell effects. Also, a slightly obscure rule is that creatures can't use their Reaction on the surprise round *until after their turn*. Then they can. So tracking when their turn happens matters even though they can't do anything.
I believe you also have advantage on attack rolls against surprised creatures. Some people will apply this only to rsnged attacks, but I apply it to melee attacks as long as you sneak up behind them. This can even still work if some of the party failed their Stealth checks. Some of the monsters might be unaware of some of the PCs, even if they're not in the surprised "condition" and do get to act on their turn.
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I want to ensure I'm running an encounter correctly in the event that a group surprises a monster.
The PHB states that in the event of a surprise. Who is surprised is determined, then everyone rolls initiative and the surprised monster gets no actions during the surprise.
This seems off to me. In the past, the surprise attacker got a free round, but not the entire group. In the event of a bad roll, a single monster could have basically 10 attacks against him from a group of five players before he could respond.
Also to point, say a character sneaks up for the surprise, but if you have five characters that are going to surprise the monster, (get a free surprise attack) then ALL of them should roll stealth and the monster should get five perception rolls. One against each player sneaking up on them and if he detects any of them approaching. Then the surprise is broken for all of them.
Anyhow, your thoughts please. :)
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
So you're reading right, and a surprise round can be powerful, although they're very rare in my experience. If 1 character sneaks up and gets a surprise attack everyone rolls initiative and the monster spends its entire 1st round surprised. But unless everyone snuck up or they laid an ambush for an incoming monster the rest of the party will need to move up first to attack. If they're close enough to get in melee range and attack same turn they need to also be rolling stealth and anyone failing means everyone fails. You may get some long ranged mage or archer pot shots that first round but if they came up with a solid strategy, executed, and the dice are with them than I say let them have it. They've earned it and they'll feel like badasses
Guess what. You aren't running surprise correctly. It's really hard to run surprise correctly, because there are numerous applicable rules spread across different parts of the rulebooks, and they're pretty subtle.
You're actually right that if five PCs sneak up on a monster, they all need to roll Stealth checks. The monster does not roll Perception 5 times, because you just use its passive Perception (10 plus its Perception modifier, if given in the stat block, or plus Wis if not).
If you roll 5 Stealth checks, at least one is likely to fail, and then surprise is basically worthless. Technically, the monster is still unaware of the creatures that succeeded on Stealth until their turn, but it doesn't really matter since the monster still has a target in the first round and doesn't lose its action.
So tactically, you might want to have only one or a few of your PCs attempt surprise. If other PCs hang back 30 - 60 feet, I don't make them roll Stealth. They don't participate in the "surprise round", except to Dash into the fray.
The same, of course, goes when monsters want to surprise PCs. Each monster that wants to act in the surprise round must roll Stealth. Each roll is compared to each PC's passive Perception. Some PCs might be surprised and not others. PCs that win the Perception vs. Stealth are not surprised and can act on their turn. Those that are surprised don't act or move.
Keep in mind surprised creatures do have a turn, they just can't act. But having a turn might matter for some spell effects. Also, a slightly obscure rule is that creatures can't use their Reaction on the surprise round *until after their turn*. Then they can. So tracking when their turn happens matters even though they can't do anything.
I believe you also have advantage on attack rolls against surprised creatures. Some people will apply this only to rsnged attacks, but I apply it to melee attacks as long as you sneak up behind them. This can even still work if some of the party failed their Stealth checks. Some of the monsters might be unaware of some of the PCs, even if they're not in the surprised "condition" and do get to act on their turn.