In a straight up fight, the fact is that the crossbow has a range of 320 and spells have ranges of maybe 100-120. So WWI trench warfare won't really happen because with enough cheap and dirty arrows and enough crossbowmen, they'll slowly whittle away any position the wizards establish (or so it seems to me, a random idiot). Trench warfare is the equilibrium state between two forces who have similar weapons.
What I think would happen instead is that the wizards would get weird and start ambushing and charming and controlling and reshaping. The "No Man's Land" might be constantly filled with random spell effects and glyphs and death traps and paranoid fire teams of dwarves who shoot any non-dwarf on sight, but it will absolutely not look like a WWI movie. Maybe like a Vietnam movie. Or the one-take battle scene in Children of Men.
If you want trench warfare for cinematic effect, that's good too, but that would look like your party walking a tightrope of staying 150' from either side and hoping nobody notices you because they don't care who's out there, if they see them, either side is going to try to kill them.
In a straight up fight, the fact is that the crossbow has a range of 320 and spells have ranges of maybe 100-120. So WWI trench warfare won't really happen because with enough cheap and dirty arrows and enough crossbowmen, they'll slowly whittle away any position the wizards establish (or so it seems to me, a random idiot).
crossbows won't work any better than bullets did in WW1 when it comes to trench warfare....but even less effective because a board will stop a bolt/arrow. they'd be nothing more than a nuisance until the opponent came out of the trenches.
Right, I agree. But until you come out of your trench, you can't advance and, once you do, the Dwarves have two free rounds to pepper you with crossbow bolts. If the wizards dig a trench or a wall of force or a castle or whatever for cover, the dwarves crossbows can still keep their heads down while their heavy infantry charges and then it's swords and daggers.
It's actually even more one-sided than I thought because the dwarves are also favored in hand-to-hand fighting.
I just don't see a static line forming between two such different combatants. The wizards either have to use their spells to negate the dwarves advantages or else keep backing up until they're out of range..
Right, I agree. But until you come out of your trench, you can't advance and, once you do, the Dwarves have two free rounds to pepper you with crossbow bolts. If the wizards dig a trench or a wall of force or a castle or whatever for cover, the dwarves crossbows can still keep their heads down while their heavy infantry charges and then it's swords and daggers.
It's actually even more one-sided than I thought because the dwarves are also favored in hand-to-hand fighting.
I just don't see a static line forming between two such different combatants. The wizards either have to use their spells to negate the dwarves advantages or else keep backing up until they're out of range..
You are seriously underestimating the magic side of that fight
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
What's the range on a ballista or other siege equipment? HIding behind a board is great and all till it's wrecked ... or lit on fire by fantasy trope flaming arrows (or siege munitions).
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Right, I agree. But until you come out of your trench, you can't advance and, once you do, the Dwarves have two free rounds to pepper you with crossbow bolts. If the wizards dig a trench or a wall of force or a castle or whatever for cover, the dwarves crossbows can still keep their heads down while their heavy infantry charges and then it's swords and daggers.
It's actually even more one-sided than I thought because the dwarves are also favored in hand-to-hand fighting.
I just don't see a static line forming between two such different combatants. The wizards either have to use their spells to negate the dwarves advantages or else keep backing up until they're out of range..
The elves do have some light infantry but those are mostly meat shields for the dwarves to pick away at until spell casters get in close. The light infantry dont hold up well at all to the dwarven basic heavy infantry, so the elves can get in close, but wont last very long once they do, as their infantry back up will be mostly gone.
You are seriously underestimating the magic side of that fight
I don’t see it that way. I think I’m encouraging wizards to make the best use of their abilities. I don’t see their area of greatest advantage being standing still and trading punches.
You are seriously underestimating the magic side of that fight
I don’t see it that way. I think I’m encouraging wizards to make the best use of their abilities. I don’t see their area of greatest advantage being standing still and trading punches.
The chances of the dwarves even getting into melee are low. With the wizards themselves, anyway -- good luck in that trench against all the earth elementals burrowing into it though
You should skim through the wizard spell list even at mid-levels (4-6) and look at all the ways they have to a) neutralize or nerf ranged weapon attacks, and b) do damage from distance. The whole "lay down crossbow fire so the troops can advance" thing is doomed unless the dwarves have a big numerical advantage and can afford to take huge losses
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Turned the meteor swarm mortar into a fireball mortar to limit the spellcasting ability of the elven side, took advice and made much of the area under the top layer of dirt into loose stone to prevent digging and mold earth, and coming up with ways to safely utilize invisibility while minimizing the chances of getting pelted by a stray arrow. Ive decided to give the dwarves literally just a few low level magic users for buffing as well.
Thanks to everyones help, ive definitely started getting an idea of how to actually run this session. Any other suggestions? :)
Turned the meteor swarm mortar into a fireball mortar to limit the spellcasting ability of the elven side, took advice and made much of the area under the top layer of dirt into loose stone to prevent digging and mold earth, and coming up with ways to safely utilize invisibility while minimizing the chances of getting pelted by a stray arrow. Ive decided to give the dwarves literally just a few low level magic users for buffing as well.
Thanks to everyones help, ive definitely started getting an idea of how to actually run this session. Any other suggestions? :)
If you want to limit player options without outright saying "you can only pick mission A, B or C", try adding some sort of ticking clock, 'battle begins at dawn' scenario that only gives them a certain amount of time to work with if they want to try and tip the scales for one side. That eliminates plans like "we're going to sneak across the border of that neutral country next door to get behind the lines the long way around, see you guys in a week or two"
Although it's certainly a well-worn fantasy trope for the heroes' plans to go awry so that they miss the big battle entirely, only showing up to pick through the aftermath
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Turned the meteor swarm mortar into a fireball mortar to limit the spellcasting ability of the elven side, took advice and made much of the area under the top layer of dirt into loose stone to prevent digging and mold earth, and coming up with ways to safely utilize invisibility while minimizing the chances of getting pelted by a stray arrow. Ive decided to give the dwarves literally just a few low level magic users for buffing as well.
Thanks to everyones help, ive definitely started getting an idea of how to actually run this session. Any other suggestions? :)
If you want to limit player options without outright saying "you can only pick mission A, B or C", try adding some sort of ticking clock, 'battle begins at dawn' scenario that only gives them a certain amount of time to work with if they want to try and tip the scales for one side. That eliminates plans like "we're going to sneak across the border of that neutral country next door to get behind the lines the long way around, see you guys in a week or two"
Although it's certainly a well-worn fantasy trope for the heroes' plans to go awry so that they miss the big battle entirely, only showing up to pick through the aftermath
Ill be doing something similar to that. The longer the battle goes, ill be introducing new tactics, such as walls of force to move up, or longer range catapults, to let them know things are getting desperate. Ill probably play it off like "oh it took time for mages with these spells to make the trek out here from the capital to the border/it took time to make the new catapults".
Right, I agree. But until you come out of your trench, you can't advance and, once you do, the Dwarves have two free rounds to pepper you with crossbow bolts. If the wizards dig a trench or a wall of force or a castle or whatever for cover, the dwarves crossbows can still keep their heads down while their heavy infantry charges and then it's swords and daggers.
It's actually even more one-sided than I thought because the dwarves are also favored in hand-to-hand fighting.
I just don't see a static line forming between two such different combatants. The wizards either have to use their spells to negate the dwarves advantages or else keep backing up until they're out of range..
You are seriously underestimating the magic side of that fight
The magic users would utterly annihilate them, especially with preparation time, unless the non-magic users have some kind of advanced technology that effectively mimics a lot of what the casters can do.
Here's the best ways to take out an entrenched enemy position as a Wizard!
Meteor Swarm has a range of one mile and doesn't care if you're in a trench. Invulnerability makes them pretty non-threatening. But let's ignore 9th level spells for now since Wish is obviously pretty useful.
Whirlwind! 300 foot range and tosses everyone OUT of the trench! Project Image Go hang out in the enemy trench! Magnificent Mansion. Go with me here! You create a freaking demiplane in the middle of no man's land. When you or your buddies get there, you can go inside and take a rest but the enemy can't go into it. You can even put it in the enemy trench. Mirage Arcane Constantly make life utterly miserable for the enemy trench by turning it into unbearable living conditions! lasts 10 days per cast, range of 1 square mile. Etherealness Get into any useful position you like! Same goes for Teleport. Otiluke's Freezing Sphere has 300ft range Arcane Gate enables you to send your army through directly over the enemy trench. For 10 minutes. You can just dump summoned monsters into the trench this way. Transmute Rock enables you to burrow through the ground beneath the enemy trench and sap it. Ice Storm - 300 ft range, general damage and it's a cylinder so hits those hiding in the trench
Additionally, there are loads of ways to get a magic user in range to cast a Fireball if you spend 2 minutes looking into it. Fly, Greater Invisibility, or just protecting them among the melee, building any kind of vehicle... or just dress them like one of the regular troops.
However, the master-strike and the reason that trench warfare couldn't happen in a high magic setting (and actually this is the MOST UNDERRATED way to attack towns, castles etc. in the game), the 5th level spell Cloudkill has a range of 120 feet, but the deadly cloud also drifts 10 feet away from you per turn, and lasts 10 minutes (100 turns) so it can be cast from the safety of 1120 feet away and hit anything up to 1140 feet away, vastly outranging heavy crossbows. And remember, "The vapors, being heavier than air, sink to the lowest level of the land, even pouring down openings." So being in a trench is the worst place to be. Now, if you want to fly overhead and cast it then it instantly drops from the sky, lands on their heads and then remains in the trench. But even better! the best way to cast Cloudkill is to outflank the enemy trench (a Teleport or Dimension Door can get you there easily) and cast it long-ways down the trench rather than across it. Yes, this is how to bring chemical weapon warfare to D&D.
On one hand, I do recognize that the set up i have isnt necessarily realistic to what might happen in an actual war. I wanted to create a situation that was at a stand still, and im not looking for why one army might normally dominate another. I know I didnt optimize the magic users the best, and wasnt fully trying to either.
On the other hand, what you did give could be used by my PCs on a small scale to get what I was asking about, such as clearing out a small section of a trench or transporting a small strike team.
I suppose it goes without saying that any number of 9th level spell slots will always win against an equal number of crude devices that fling pointy sticks. I guess we should check back with the OP and get a better idea of what resources each side has before we make any tactical decisions..
I'm pleased that at least we all agree that TRENCH WARFARE IS NOT WHAT THIS FIGHT WOULD LOOK LIKE. That list of spells provided is almost exactly what I had in mind above when I wrote:
What I think would happen instead is that the wizards would get weird and start ambushing and charming and controlling and reshaping. The "No Man's Land" might be constantly filled with random spell effects and glyphs and death traps and paranoid fire teams of dwarves who shoot any non-dwarf on sight...
It's true that wizards have lots of ways to control the battlefield besides standing in a trench throwing fireballs. That's exactly WHY the line of engagement will look like an Hieronymous Bosch painting full of trigger-happy dwarves, rather than two lines of guys glaring at each other across a scorch-marked, arrow-littered field.
As for the side question of whether a specific army of wizards, HAVING CHOSEN TO DEFEND A TRENCH, are using their resources to maximum advantage - I still say they will eventually be paper cut to death by the grinding plodding inexpensive competent dwarves. The game is built to favor large numbers of disposable goons. But someday let's grab some dice and settle the matter, that's what they're there for.
And again, none of this should be read as crapping on the idea of a trench warfare scene for its own sake. I just thought it worthwhile to point out that if one wants trench warfare, one needn't give oneself a ton of work detailing the armies respective capabilities, because that puts the cart before the horse, imho. Just write a trench warfare scene.
I suppose it goes without saying that any number of 9th level spell slots will always win against an equal number of crude devices that fling pointy sticks. I guess we should check back with the OP and get a better idea of what resources each side has before we make any tactical decisions..
I'm pleased that at least we all agree that TRENCH WARFARE IS NOT WHAT THIS FIGHT WOULD LOOK LIKE. That list of spells provided is almost exactly what I had in mind above when I wrote:
What I think would happen instead is that the wizards would get weird and start ambushing and charming and controlling and reshaping. The "No Man's Land" might be constantly filled with random spell effects and glyphs and death traps and paranoid fire teams of dwarves who shoot any non-dwarf on sight...
It's true that wizards have lots of ways to control the battlefield besides standing in a trench throwing fireballs. That's exactly WHY the line of engagement will look like an Hieronymous Bosch painting full of trigger-happy dwarves, rather than two lines of guys glaring at each other across a scorch-marked, arrow-littered field.
As for the side question of whether a specific army of wizards, HAVING CHOSEN TO DEFEND A TRENCH, are using their resources to maximum advantage - I still say they will eventually be paper cut to death by the grinding plodding inexpensive competent dwarves. The game is built to favor large numbers of disposable goons. But someday let's grab some dice and settle the matter, that's what they're there for.
So after getting some advice from others on here, the meteor swarm is being changed to lots of fireball, reducing the spell level of the mages, and thus some options. I do also want to note that the spell casters, mostly above 2nd level spellcasting, are more rare. There are not thousands of 6th level casters or anything. The mages also have LOTS of light infantry to back them up, but dont stand well against the dwarves heavy infantry. Mostly meat shields, really. So the numbers are more or less even.
I actually really like the idea of trench warfare, and I was on a train when I came up with that list of spells so I had a lot of time to think about it xD I think that trenches are more realistic for fantasy than battlefield formations which would just all end up Fireball'd.
My rule of thumb when putting in casters is that there is only one 20th level spellcaster per nation in my world, and the next highest is like level 13. Then there are a few level 10s, but it's very rare to meet anyone who can cast a 3rd level spell. However, that's just how I do it.
If you have lots of higher level casters, then the enemy ought to have things to protect them. Maybe the dwarfs have gas masks to keep them safe from Cloudkill. Maybe Antimagic emplacements along the battle line protect them (big massive blocks of rune-engraved stone that take teams of 40 horses to drag around). Maybe they have a lot of bunkers under the ground to hide in. There are ways you can make anything work and it's a really fun subject.
I actually really like the idea of trench warfare, and I was on a train when I came up with that list of spells so I had a lot of time to think about it xD I think that trenches are more realistic for fantasy than battlefield formations which would just all end up Fireball'd.
My rule of thumb when putting in casters is that there is only one 20th level spellcaster per nation in my world, and the next highest is like level 13. Then there are a few level 10s, but it's very rare to meet anyone who can cast a 3rd level spell. However, that's just how I do it.
If you have lots of higher level casters, then the enemy ought to have things to protect them. Maybe the dwarfs have gas masks to keep them safe from Cloudkill. Maybe Antimagic emplacements along the battle line protect them (big massive blocks of rune-engraved stone that take teams of 40 horses to drag around). Maybe they have a lot of bunkers under the ground to hide in. There are ways you can make anything work and it's a really fun subject.
Gasmasks. Somehow i never once thought of gas masks. I kinda feel stupid. And this is why I was asking for help. I knew I was probably leaving out basic attack/defense ideas.
I really like the idea of the anti-magic giant blocks with runes in them. Maybe they wont stop a massive barrage of spells, but could definitely lessen the impact of a wave of spells.
plant growth is great for slowing down people in a large area
arcane archers with seeking arrows could be like snipers that fire at any one who sticks their head up and bursting arrows is another artillery option ( it recharges faster than fire balls
mirage arcane this spell can change the terrain in a pretty substantial way and probably hide a trench
As for how to run it, I'd say each side has one of each of the following:
Artillery such as arcane cannons, fire balls or bombs
Trench wall like a barbed wire, caltrops, wall of thorns or glyph of warding that they line up in front of the trench to make going in a little harder
A mine field at the back and sides to prevent flanking and to scatter around the field.
a special weapon like poison gas or cloud kill to deploy
a general infantry weapon/ attack
As for how to run it, I'd do it as a skill challenge/ maze The players have to plot a way through no mans land and come up with their own way to cover the crossing though each side might have a suggested plan. To do this I'd probably split the no mans land into a grid of about 100ft squares and make it a maze of things like caltrops, mines and other hazards. I'd do maybe 5 rows, 3 where only artillery can fire, 2 where both artillery and infantry can fire. They move a square every two turns (1 turn if they dash and make no attempt to mitigate being hit) dealing with what ever hazard is there and if possible doing something to avoid an artillery strike, otherwise they have to save from artillery, when they get to a certain range it's instead infantry they need to avoid being hit by and in the final layer there is a wall of some kind to get past like barbed wire.
So at the start I'd tell each of them to plot a route. Then I'd go round by round until they get to the end saying things like "you are in an artillery square, what do you do" they might say "I go low and try to sneak through unseen" then they roll stealth if they beat the score they don't have to save on artillery, if they fail they do. If they do something that might help but not completely protect like fog cloud then I'd give them advantage on the artillery save and they might also be able to help others. They might also be in a trap square in which case I'd say " this is a caltrop square, you can make a dex save to move through quickly or move slowly and safely" then they'd make a dex save and stealth. At the end of every round I'd trigger a special move like setting a square on fire or releasing a cloud kill just to mix it up.
In a straight up fight, the fact is that the crossbow has a range of 320 and spells have ranges of maybe 100-120. So WWI trench warfare won't really happen because with enough cheap and dirty arrows and enough crossbowmen, they'll slowly whittle away any position the wizards establish (or so it seems to me, a random idiot). Trench warfare is the equilibrium state between two forces who have similar weapons.
What I think would happen instead is that the wizards would get weird and start ambushing and charming and controlling and reshaping. The "No Man's Land" might be constantly filled with random spell effects and glyphs and death traps and paranoid fire teams of dwarves who shoot any non-dwarf on sight, but it will absolutely not look like a WWI movie. Maybe like a Vietnam movie. Or the one-take battle scene in Children of Men.
If you want trench warfare for cinematic effect, that's good too, but that would look like your party walking a tightrope of staying 150' from either side and hoping nobody notices you because they don't care who's out there, if they see them, either side is going to try to kill them.
crossbows won't work any better than bullets did in WW1 when it comes to trench warfare....but even less effective because a board will stop a bolt/arrow. they'd be nothing more than a nuisance until the opponent came out of the trenches.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Right, I agree. But until you come out of your trench, you can't advance and, once you do, the Dwarves have two free rounds to pepper you with crossbow bolts. If the wizards dig a trench or a wall of force or a castle or whatever for cover, the dwarves crossbows can still keep their heads down while their heavy infantry charges and then it's swords and daggers.
It's actually even more one-sided than I thought because the dwarves are also favored in hand-to-hand fighting.
I just don't see a static line forming between two such different combatants. The wizards either have to use their spells to negate the dwarves advantages or else keep backing up until they're out of range..
You are seriously underestimating the magic side of that fight
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
What's the range on a ballista or other siege equipment? HIding behind a board is great and all till it's wrecked ... or lit on fire by fantasy trope flaming arrows (or siege munitions).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Ok, I see your point there, fireball it is!!
From what i was seeing online, about 400ish ft. So the field is gonna be about 500ish ft.
The elves do have some light infantry but those are mostly meat shields for the dwarves to pick away at until spell casters get in close. The light infantry dont hold up well at all to the dwarven basic heavy infantry, so the elves can get in close, but wont last very long once they do, as their infantry back up will be mostly gone.
The chances of the dwarves even getting into melee are low. With the wizards themselves, anyway -- good luck in that trench against all the earth elementals burrowing into it though
You should skim through the wizard spell list even at mid-levels (4-6) and look at all the ways they have to a) neutralize or nerf ranged weapon attacks, and b) do damage from distance. The whole "lay down crossbow fire so the troops can advance" thing is doomed unless the dwarves have a big numerical advantage and can afford to take huge losses
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Ok, so with some suggestions, ive:
Turned the meteor swarm mortar into a fireball mortar to limit the spellcasting ability of the elven side, took advice and made much of the area under the top layer of dirt into loose stone to prevent digging and mold earth, and coming up with ways to safely utilize invisibility while minimizing the chances of getting pelted by a stray arrow. Ive decided to give the dwarves literally just a few low level magic users for buffing as well.
Thanks to everyones help, ive definitely started getting an idea of how to actually run this session. Any other suggestions? :)
If you want to limit player options without outright saying "you can only pick mission A, B or C", try adding some sort of ticking clock, 'battle begins at dawn' scenario that only gives them a certain amount of time to work with if they want to try and tip the scales for one side. That eliminates plans like "we're going to sneak across the border of that neutral country next door to get behind the lines the long way around, see you guys in a week or two"
Although it's certainly a well-worn fantasy trope for the heroes' plans to go awry so that they miss the big battle entirely, only showing up to pick through the aftermath
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Ill be doing something similar to that. The longer the battle goes, ill be introducing new tactics, such as walls of force to move up, or longer range catapults, to let them know things are getting desperate. Ill probably play it off like "oh it took time for mages with these spells to make the trek out here from the capital to the border/it took time to make the new catapults".
The magic users would utterly annihilate them, especially with preparation time, unless the non-magic users have some kind of advanced technology that effectively mimics a lot of what the casters can do.
Here's the best ways to take out an entrenched enemy position as a Wizard!
Meteor Swarm has a range of one mile and doesn't care if you're in a trench. Invulnerability makes them pretty non-threatening. But let's ignore 9th level spells for now since Wish is obviously pretty useful.
Whirlwind! 300 foot range and tosses everyone OUT of the trench!
Project Image Go hang out in the enemy trench!
Magnificent Mansion. Go with me here! You create a freaking demiplane in the middle of no man's land. When you or your buddies get there, you can go inside and take a rest but the enemy can't go into it. You can even put it in the enemy trench.
Mirage Arcane Constantly make life utterly miserable for the enemy trench by turning it into unbearable living conditions! lasts 10 days per cast, range of 1 square mile.
Etherealness Get into any useful position you like! Same goes for Teleport.
Otiluke's Freezing Sphere has 300ft range
Arcane Gate enables you to send your army through directly over the enemy trench. For 10 minutes. You can just dump summoned monsters into the trench this way.
Transmute Rock enables you to burrow through the ground beneath the enemy trench and sap it.
Ice Storm - 300 ft range, general damage and it's a cylinder so hits those hiding in the trench
Additionally, there are loads of ways to get a magic user in range to cast a Fireball if you spend 2 minutes looking into it. Fly, Greater Invisibility, or just protecting them among the melee, building any kind of vehicle... or just dress them like one of the regular troops.
However, the master-strike and the reason that trench warfare couldn't happen in a high magic setting (and actually this is the MOST UNDERRATED way to attack towns, castles etc. in the game), the 5th level spell Cloudkill has a range of 120 feet, but the deadly cloud also drifts 10 feet away from you per turn, and lasts 10 minutes (100 turns) so it can be cast from the safety of 1120 feet away and hit anything up to 1140 feet away, vastly outranging heavy crossbows. And remember, "The vapors, being heavier than air, sink to the lowest level of the land, even pouring down openings." So being in a trench is the worst place to be. Now, if you want to fly overhead and cast it then it instantly drops from the sky, lands on their heads and then remains in the trench. But even better! the best way to cast Cloudkill is to outflank the enemy trench (a Teleport or Dimension Door can get you there easily) and cast it long-ways down the trench rather than across it. Yes, this is how to bring chemical weapon warfare to D&D.
On one hand, I do recognize that the set up i have isnt necessarily realistic to what might happen in an actual war. I wanted to create a situation that was at a stand still, and im not looking for why one army might normally dominate another. I know I didnt optimize the magic users the best, and wasnt fully trying to either.
On the other hand, what you did give could be used by my PCs on a small scale to get what I was asking about, such as clearing out a small section of a trench or transporting a small strike team.
So thank you :)
I suppose it goes without saying that any number of 9th level spell slots will always win against an equal number of crude devices that fling pointy sticks. I guess we should check back with the OP and get a better idea of what resources each side has before we make any tactical decisions..
I'm pleased that at least we all agree that TRENCH WARFARE IS NOT WHAT THIS FIGHT WOULD LOOK LIKE. That list of spells provided is almost exactly what I had in mind above when I wrote:
It's true that wizards have lots of ways to control the battlefield besides standing in a trench throwing fireballs. That's exactly WHY the line of engagement will look like an Hieronymous Bosch painting full of trigger-happy dwarves, rather than two lines of guys glaring at each other across a scorch-marked, arrow-littered field.
As for the side question of whether a specific army of wizards, HAVING CHOSEN TO DEFEND A TRENCH, are using their resources to maximum advantage - I still say they will eventually be paper cut to death by the grinding plodding inexpensive competent dwarves. The game is built to favor large numbers of disposable goons. But someday let's grab some dice and settle the matter, that's what they're there for.
And again, none of this should be read as crapping on the idea of a trench warfare scene for its own sake. I just thought it worthwhile to point out that if one wants trench warfare, one needn't give oneself a ton of work detailing the armies respective capabilities, because that puts the cart before the horse, imho. Just write a trench warfare scene.
So after getting some advice from others on here, the meteor swarm is being changed to lots of fireball, reducing the spell level of the mages, and thus some options. I do also want to note that the spell casters, mostly above 2nd level spellcasting, are more rare. There are not thousands of 6th level casters or anything. The mages also have LOTS of light infantry to back them up, but dont stand well against the dwarves heavy infantry. Mostly meat shields, really. So the numbers are more or less even.
I actually really like the idea of trench warfare, and I was on a train when I came up with that list of spells so I had a lot of time to think about it xD I think that trenches are more realistic for fantasy than battlefield formations which would just all end up Fireball'd.
My rule of thumb when putting in casters is that there is only one 20th level spellcaster per nation in my world, and the next highest is like level 13. Then there are a few level 10s, but it's very rare to meet anyone who can cast a 3rd level spell. However, that's just how I do it.
If you have lots of higher level casters, then the enemy ought to have things to protect them. Maybe the dwarfs have gas masks to keep them safe from Cloudkill. Maybe Antimagic emplacements along the battle line protect them (big massive blocks of rune-engraved stone that take teams of 40 horses to drag around). Maybe they have a lot of bunkers under the ground to hide in. There are ways you can make anything work and it's a really fun subject.
Gasmasks. Somehow i never once thought of gas masks. I kinda feel stupid. And this is why I was asking for help. I knew I was probably leaving out basic attack/defense ideas.
I really like the idea of the anti-magic giant blocks with runes in them. Maybe they wont stop a massive barrage of spells, but could definitely lessen the impact of a wave of spells.
Some more trench warfare ideas
Some ways to get past trenches
As for how to run it, I'd say each side has one of each of the following:
As for how to run it, I'd do it as a skill challenge/ maze
The players have to plot a way through no mans land and come up with their own way to cover the crossing though each side might have a suggested plan. To do this I'd probably split the no mans land into a grid of about 100ft squares and make it a maze of things like caltrops, mines and other hazards. I'd do maybe 5 rows, 3 where only artillery can fire, 2 where both artillery and infantry can fire. They move a square every two turns (1 turn if they dash and make no attempt to mitigate being hit) dealing with what ever hazard is there and if possible doing something to avoid an artillery strike, otherwise they have to save from artillery, when they get to a certain range it's instead infantry they need to avoid being hit by and in the final layer there is a wall of some kind to get past like barbed wire.
So at the start I'd tell each of them to plot a route. Then I'd go round by round until they get to the end saying things like "you are in an artillery square, what do you do" they might say "I go low and try to sneak through unseen" then they roll stealth if they beat the score they don't have to save on artillery, if they fail they do. If they do something that might help but not completely protect like fog cloud then I'd give them advantage on the artillery save and they might also be able to help others. They might also be in a trap square in which case I'd say " this is a caltrop square, you can make a dex save to move through quickly or move slowly and safely" then they'd make a dex save and stealth. At the end of every round I'd trigger a special move like setting a square on fire or releasing a cloud kill just to mix it up.