I had a realization recently, as I have a new Player who insists that they want to play a Paladin of Protection, but really doesn't seem to have a good grasp on how a Paladin is to be played: If I want the Player to play more as a Paladin, give them more Paladin type quest elements - D'uh - seems obvious in retrospect; I'm slow, but I get there ... eventually ...
Of course, this applies to all Players and Characters - but I'm having some challenges coming up with ideas for some player/character types.
I've been asking the Players to come with long-term goals for themselves; some with more success than others - but "some are born to quests, some have quests thrust upon them", no?
I'd love to hear other people's ideas of what adventure arcs you would put in front of these characters :)
Paladin: Novice Player. Simple - give the Paladin something to protect, a village to rescue, a holy weapon to quest for, lost holy texts/items to recover, etc. - heap renown and praise on the Paladin for accomplishing great deeds for the church ( which he will, of course, deflect, as he is but a humble servant .... ).
Ranger: Has a tortured past, is on a path of revenge, wants to multi-class into Blood Hunter. Again - simple - throw clues as to his revenge targets in his path, allow him to find clues as to the locations of his revenge targets. Allow him to find the Blood Hunters. Give him a quest to prove he's worthy to join the blood hunters, etc. He also appears to be one those players that loves combat and to be "the best damn ______ that you ever saw" - in his case, for this character, Archer. Give him lots of combat where he can shine. Problem I'm struggling with as a DM is that he can take down the local BBEG pretty damn fast, in many encounters.
Fighter: disgraced and exiled from his home, committed ( through a religious vision ) to the concept of justice. He can probably "coat-tail" on the Paladin's quests for now. Long term, give him a new home, new place to fit it. Give him a great injustice to right. Heck - a small cultural group laboring under a great injustice, where he can liberate them through great feats of martial prowess would be great.
Bard/Rogue ( Inquisitive ): Problematic. Seems to delight in secrets, knowing things, lording information over people. Her actions recently kicked off a civil war in the Thieves Guild which holds sway over the entire island/nation they're in, and in which most of her family is involved - although she hasn't discovered that yet ( they're at sea right now ). Give her some adventure hooks to find and/or rescue family members, ways to defuse the war. Longer terms, give her a great secret to ferret out? Expose ( or join, or exploit ) some high-power secret cabal?
Cleric ( Trickery Domain ) / Rogue ( Arcane Trickster ) : Problematic. Novice Player. God is an aspect of Trickery/Chaos/Creativity. New enough player that they really don't know what they can do, or what they should know, and what they can ask about. Would likely benefit most from some focused "divine purpose/quest" - but I'm having problems coming up with something appropriate to their God/Domain. Complication: Player is my wife ( :o ! ).
Rogue ( Assassin ) / Warlock: Problematic. Character is only 1st level Warlock. Knows little of their Patron, but Patron is a Great Old One - cabal of similar Warlocks / Rogues are a "dark conspiracy" of influence brokers, and spies - which have historical roots in the ( homebrew ) campaign world. Player seems to enjoy playing up the "dark and morbid" aspect of their character, and tries to rely a lot on their Noble Background. Short term ideas: do this mission for your cabal, learn more about your Patron. Long term: ????
So ... anyone have ideas for story arcs - both long and short term - that you'd dangle in front of these Players/Characters?
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
The Warlock is an interesting one, and the cabal sets up some long-term stuff nicely. While they're allies for the time being, at a certain point you could have the Patron grow bored with his servants and eventually set them against one another. To the last Warlock standing, the gift of great power and the granting of a personal favour, to the remainder killed in his name, an eternity of servitude for their souls in the Patron's. This works nicely with the Assassin side of things as well. If the Warlock decides they don't want to play their Patron's game, they can still be caught up in it, as the other, more willing servants seek to slay the rest, your player included.
As for the Bard/Rogue, you've got the perfect setup there for some consequences that might prompt the character to second-guess themselves. If they delight in the influence that can turn nation-spanning guild against itself, remind them that this influence has consequence; if a family member or two are killed or injured during this, in the short term you have rescue missions but in the long term, what if this turns the remaining family against this character? She rescues a sister or father, only to have that person resent her for starting the conflict in the first place? This can go all sorts of places. If the character is unrepentant, her family become enemies that have a major advantage over her due to how well they might know her habits/morals/relationships. If the character realises the mistakes she's made, she might set out to win back their favour and set things right, perhaps even prompting a shift away from her chaotic and exploitative tendencies. This also sets up some inter-party conflict if that's what you're after: the paladin might support a classic quest for redemption, while the cleric dedicated to trickery and chaos might oppose it.
The Ranger. The Blood Hunters provide a good short-term quest, as you say there will have to be a proving ritual and the induction into the order itself. As for the player's drive to be the best combatant, and their ability to handle such combats almost too well, put them in a situation where they need to rely on their allies and friends (inside the Party or NPC allies if you have them established) rather than their own prowess at arms. Maybe face them with the kind of bosses you can't just shoot to death, something with more mental attacks or that dishes out a lot of debuffs. Maybe give them a nemesis that won't even come out and meet them in combat, so they have to work with the party to find another way to bring them down. This could perhaps be a local Duke or Count or Baron; someone with enough resources and influence that just walking up and sticking arrows in them isn't a solution (or if it is, you then have to fight your way past an army of local guardsmen, handle the resulting power vacuum, are the subject of a full criminal investigation ect).
The Cleric. Given the Domain, give them a 'long con' to pull, maybe on an NPC or faction within the world. Infiltrate the higher ranks of a Guild, steal the royal sceptre from King Whoever, trick a community into worshipping her God ect. Perhaps even something that's a secret from the other players and can be done surreptitiously in the background while the main events move along. This can eventually set up a dramatic reveal, and gives the player a challenge in making sure they can achieve these things while not giving the game away. This suits the whole 'chaos and trickery' thing. As for the issue of the player not knowing their capabilities, this is something you can address outside the game if need be. Hand them a printout with the info their character would know, and don't be afraid to just tell them 'your character already knows the answer to this question, it's [insert answer here]'.
The Fighter and Paladin are comparatively straightforward, and can even be rolled into one; they come across a land under the thumb of some evil, and lead the fight against it inspiring revolution, finding a new home. I'm partial to old-school Vampires for stuff like this as I find they make great villainous overlords, able to match the heroes both in wits and in deeds, but depending on the level and lore, you've got all sorts of options. A powerful dragon for higher levels, a human lord under the influence of a Mind Flayer for lower ones ect. So long as they have lots of minions to fight through and can provide a satisfying enough final showdown, this sort of story almost writes itself and there's a ton of influences to draw from across all forms of fiction.
If your players don't fully engage with these plots instantly, that's fine. Not every player will want a bespoke personal storyline and some will be happy just to travel around with the party engaging with whatever the main narrative of your setting is. Likewise, if you set up these plots and the players don't come back to them for a few sessions, they'll still be there as and when they do decide to investigate further so none of your prep work will be wasted. Kicking them off all at once is a danger as you could then find the party basically running off in 5 different directions, but you can slowly build towards a couple, resolve them and introduce the next couple.
Some really awesome ideas here, and I really appreciate the time and effort you put into your answer!
Warlock
I do like your approaches to the Patron getting tired of the Cabal. In this case, I don't think that quite works, as the cabal is pretty stable - stretching over generations in my campaign world. They're kind of like a mini-Zhentarim from Forgotten Realms. However, there are definitely factions within the cabal, and I can certainly see one of the factions making a play for power.
Another arc I can try and lay before the player is "trying to figure out what the Patron is really up to": a series of mystics, madmen, and strange relics to quest for, in order to discover the Patron's "true purpose", in which case they have to decide if they defect, or comply.
Bard/Rogue
I definitely think you're spot on for her thread ideas. The family is definitely fractured on this one already, with some having gone neutral and "gone to ground", one killed, and the family trading fleet fleeing for other waters until the war settles down.
I can't believe I didn't consider the "rescue your twin brother" angle! Thank you!
Ranger
I agree 100% on your points here. The Ranger already has had a brush with the supernatural - a malevolent spirit which was possessing the last adventures BBEG and which knew all about his tortured past, implying that it was one of many, and that they had manipulated and fed on the result suffering the civil war which claimed the Ranger's family ( since he's already on a revenge kick for the people that were responsible for his family's death ... expect maybe it wasn't just the people ). The spirit even inhabited the Ranger for a short span before he killed it in mental combat ( this encounter was used as an excuse for giving a Human Ranger dark-vision and primal sense as he absorbed some of the being's nature when he defeated it ). I've decided to spin this a bit as a) part of the creature is still alive in him, which will unfold in a series of bestial and disturbing dreams, where he will also get the distinct impression that he is being hunted because ... b) There is a Blood Hunter ( Ghost Slayer ) on the track of the being whose remnants are hiding in the Ranger's soul. This gives me an opening to introduce his Blood Hunter mentor to him, and sets the stage for a spiritual contest in which he attempts to expel and destroy the last remnants of the creature, and show he's worthy to be a Ghost Slayer.
He can then spend a long time tracking down the people and "things" that were responsible for the War that destroyed his home.
Cleric
This problem kind of solved itself in an odd way; the Player ( my wife ), decided to switch characters and it now planning on playing a Monk of the Way of the Shadow.
Paladin & Fighter
Agreed on these points. The interesting thing is the Ranger & the Warlock both come from an area loosely modeled on the Athenian Empire, right after Athens smashed the Thasian Rebellion, with the Ranger coming from the Thasian analogue, and the Warlock coming from the Athenian analogue.
This sets up some interesting party conflict, but the Thasian analogue could absolutely be the "land under the thumb of some evil", as they are currently punitively occupied by the Athenian analogue - so that engages the Fighter/Champion dedicated to Justice and whose whole character backstory and concept is about resisting corrupt government, the Paladin of Protection, who can protect the people against oppressive govenment.
Now ... if I tie in the Warlock's Patron as having a hand in, or influencing the War - either using the creatures that the Ranger is likely to be embarking on a war again, or opposing them as it wanted to solidify its influence over the region ( depending on whether I want the Warlock and Ranger finding themselves on the same, or opposite sides ), disappear some of the Bard's family into the region as they flee the shadow war of the thieves guild ...
I think I might just have hit upon my first major campaign arc, centered around war, justice, oppression, family, revenge, and redemption.
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
One idea I had while reading your Paladin's story....is to tease at their deity possibly losing faith in them as their champion.
Like, if you keep throwing more and more saving people quests into it, the Paladin might start leaning towards 'I am the best Paladin ever' internally while still trying to show that humble side, which could make the humble talking sound fake. The deity could easily determine this, and such could decide that a lesson in true humility would be needed to put the Paladin back on the right path. Slowly, as the Paladin keeps calling on the deity and his holy powers, they start becoming harder and harder to access, which could lead him to deciding he needs to visit a temple or something to commune with his deity. On this attempt, the deity could become quiet, confusing the Paladin. Later on, the Paladin has a vision or some sort from the deity, scorning them for their feign on humility; stating that maybe the Paladin has much more to learn. This can give a bit of a longer term mission and possibly the Paladin being more careful on their actions going forward, doing more to please the deity and helping others, rather than doing these actions for the internal ego. Possibly, a reward from the deity at the end of the quest after an epic moment from the Paladin, maybe resulting in a cool unique weapon directly gifted.
Just a thought or two I had while reading it :)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I had a realization recently, as I have a new Player who insists that they want to play a Paladin of Protection, but really doesn't seem to have a good grasp on how a Paladin is to be played: If I want the Player to play more as a Paladin, give them more Paladin type quest elements - D'uh - seems obvious in retrospect; I'm slow, but I get there ... eventually ...
Of course, this applies to all Players and Characters - but I'm having some challenges coming up with ideas for some player/character types.
I've been asking the Players to come with long-term goals for themselves; some with more success than others - but "some are born to quests, some have quests thrust upon them", no?
I'd love to hear other people's ideas of what adventure arcs you would put in front of these characters :)
Paladin: Novice Player. Simple - give the Paladin something to protect, a village to rescue, a holy weapon to quest for, lost holy texts/items to recover, etc. - heap renown and praise on the Paladin for accomplishing great deeds for the church ( which he will, of course, deflect, as he is but a humble servant .... ).
Ranger: Has a tortured past, is on a path of revenge, wants to multi-class into Blood Hunter. Again - simple - throw clues as to his revenge targets in his path, allow him to find clues as to the locations of his revenge targets. Allow him to find the Blood Hunters. Give him a quest to prove he's worthy to join the blood hunters, etc. He also appears to be one those players that loves combat and to be "the best damn ______ that you ever saw" - in his case, for this character, Archer. Give him lots of combat where he can shine. Problem I'm struggling with as a DM is that he can take down the local BBEG pretty damn fast, in many encounters.
Fighter: disgraced and exiled from his home, committed ( through a religious vision ) to the concept of justice. He can probably "coat-tail" on the Paladin's quests for now. Long term, give him a new home, new place to fit it. Give him a great injustice to right. Heck - a small cultural group laboring under a great injustice, where he can liberate them through great feats of martial prowess would be great.
Bard/Rogue ( Inquisitive ): Problematic. Seems to delight in secrets, knowing things, lording information over people. Her actions recently kicked off a civil war in the Thieves Guild which holds sway over the entire island/nation they're in, and in which most of her family is involved - although she hasn't discovered that yet ( they're at sea right now ). Give her some adventure hooks to find and/or rescue family members, ways to defuse the war. Longer terms, give her a great secret to ferret out? Expose ( or join, or exploit ) some high-power secret cabal?
Cleric ( Trickery Domain ) / Rogue ( Arcane Trickster ) : Problematic. Novice Player. God is an aspect of Trickery/Chaos/Creativity. New enough player that they really don't know what they can do, or what they should know, and what they can ask about. Would likely benefit most from some focused "divine purpose/quest" - but I'm having problems coming up with something appropriate to their God/Domain. Complication: Player is my wife ( :o ! ).
Rogue ( Assassin ) / Warlock: Problematic. Character is only 1st level Warlock. Knows little of their Patron, but Patron is a Great Old One - cabal of similar Warlocks / Rogues are a "dark conspiracy" of influence brokers, and spies - which have historical roots in the ( homebrew ) campaign world. Player seems to enjoy playing up the "dark and morbid" aspect of their character, and tries to rely a lot on their Noble Background. Short term ideas: do this mission for your cabal, learn more about your Patron. Long term: ????
So ... anyone have ideas for story arcs - both long and short term - that you'd dangle in front of these Players/Characters?
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
The Warlock is an interesting one, and the cabal sets up some long-term stuff nicely. While they're allies for the time being, at a certain point you could have the Patron grow bored with his servants and eventually set them against one another. To the last Warlock standing, the gift of great power and the granting of a personal favour, to the remainder killed in his name, an eternity of servitude for their souls in the Patron's. This works nicely with the Assassin side of things as well. If the Warlock decides they don't want to play their Patron's game, they can still be caught up in it, as the other, more willing servants seek to slay the rest, your player included.
As for the Bard/Rogue, you've got the perfect setup there for some consequences that might prompt the character to second-guess themselves. If they delight in the influence that can turn nation-spanning guild against itself, remind them that this influence has consequence; if a family member or two are killed or injured during this, in the short term you have rescue missions but in the long term, what if this turns the remaining family against this character? She rescues a sister or father, only to have that person resent her for starting the conflict in the first place? This can go all sorts of places. If the character is unrepentant, her family become enemies that have a major advantage over her due to how well they might know her habits/morals/relationships. If the character realises the mistakes she's made, she might set out to win back their favour and set things right, perhaps even prompting a shift away from her chaotic and exploitative tendencies. This also sets up some inter-party conflict if that's what you're after: the paladin might support a classic quest for redemption, while the cleric dedicated to trickery and chaos might oppose it.
The Ranger. The Blood Hunters provide a good short-term quest, as you say there will have to be a proving ritual and the induction into the order itself. As for the player's drive to be the best combatant, and their ability to handle such combats almost too well, put them in a situation where they need to rely on their allies and friends (inside the Party or NPC allies if you have them established) rather than their own prowess at arms. Maybe face them with the kind of bosses you can't just shoot to death, something with more mental attacks or that dishes out a lot of debuffs. Maybe give them a nemesis that won't even come out and meet them in combat, so they have to work with the party to find another way to bring them down. This could perhaps be a local Duke or Count or Baron; someone with enough resources and influence that just walking up and sticking arrows in them isn't a solution (or if it is, you then have to fight your way past an army of local guardsmen, handle the resulting power vacuum, are the subject of a full criminal investigation ect).
The Cleric. Given the Domain, give them a 'long con' to pull, maybe on an NPC or faction within the world. Infiltrate the higher ranks of a Guild, steal the royal sceptre from King Whoever, trick a community into worshipping her God ect. Perhaps even something that's a secret from the other players and can be done surreptitiously in the background while the main events move along. This can eventually set up a dramatic reveal, and gives the player a challenge in making sure they can achieve these things while not giving the game away. This suits the whole 'chaos and trickery' thing. As for the issue of the player not knowing their capabilities, this is something you can address outside the game if need be. Hand them a printout with the info their character would know, and don't be afraid to just tell them 'your character already knows the answer to this question, it's [insert answer here]'.
The Fighter and Paladin are comparatively straightforward, and can even be rolled into one; they come across a land under the thumb of some evil, and lead the fight against it inspiring revolution, finding a new home. I'm partial to old-school Vampires for stuff like this as I find they make great villainous overlords, able to match the heroes both in wits and in deeds, but depending on the level and lore, you've got all sorts of options. A powerful dragon for higher levels, a human lord under the influence of a Mind Flayer for lower ones ect. So long as they have lots of minions to fight through and can provide a satisfying enough final showdown, this sort of story almost writes itself and there's a ton of influences to draw from across all forms of fiction.
If your players don't fully engage with these plots instantly, that's fine. Not every player will want a bespoke personal storyline and some will be happy just to travel around with the party engaging with whatever the main narrative of your setting is. Likewise, if you set up these plots and the players don't come back to them for a few sessions, they'll still be there as and when they do decide to investigate further so none of your prep work will be wasted. Kicking them off all at once is a danger as you could then find the party basically running off in 5 different directions, but you can slowly build towards a couple, resolve them and introduce the next couple.
Hope that's of some use!
Some really awesome ideas here, and I really appreciate the time and effort you put into your answer!
Warlock
I do like your approaches to the Patron getting tired of the Cabal. In this case, I don't think that quite works, as the cabal is pretty stable - stretching over generations in my campaign world. They're kind of like a mini-Zhentarim from Forgotten Realms. However, there are definitely factions within the cabal, and I can certainly see one of the factions making a play for power.
Another arc I can try and lay before the player is "trying to figure out what the Patron is really up to": a series of mystics, madmen, and strange relics to quest for, in order to discover the Patron's "true purpose", in which case they have to decide if they defect, or comply.
Bard/Rogue
I definitely think you're spot on for her thread ideas. The family is definitely fractured on this one already, with some having gone neutral and "gone to ground", one killed, and the family trading fleet fleeing for other waters until the war settles down.
I can't believe I didn't consider the "rescue your twin brother" angle! Thank you!
Ranger
I agree 100% on your points here. The Ranger already has had a brush with the supernatural - a malevolent spirit which was possessing the last adventures BBEG and which knew all about his tortured past, implying that it was one of many, and that they had manipulated and fed on the result suffering the civil war which claimed the Ranger's family ( since he's already on a revenge kick for the people that were responsible for his family's death ... expect maybe it wasn't just the people ). The spirit even inhabited the Ranger for a short span before he killed it in mental combat ( this encounter was used as an excuse for giving a Human Ranger dark-vision and primal sense as he absorbed some of the being's nature when he defeated it ). I've decided to spin this a bit as a) part of the creature is still alive in him, which will unfold in a series of bestial and disturbing dreams, where he will also get the distinct impression that he is being hunted because ... b) There is a Blood Hunter ( Ghost Slayer ) on the track of the being whose remnants are hiding in the Ranger's soul. This gives me an opening to introduce his Blood Hunter mentor to him, and sets the stage for a spiritual contest in which he attempts to expel and destroy the last remnants of the creature, and show he's worthy to be a Ghost Slayer.
He can then spend a long time tracking down the people and "things" that were responsible for the War that destroyed his home.
Cleric
This problem kind of solved itself in an odd way; the Player ( my wife ), decided to switch characters and it now planning on playing a Monk of the Way of the Shadow.
Paladin & Fighter
Agreed on these points. The interesting thing is the Ranger & the Warlock both come from an area loosely modeled on the Athenian Empire, right after Athens smashed the Thasian Rebellion, with the Ranger coming from the Thasian analogue, and the Warlock coming from the Athenian analogue.
This sets up some interesting party conflict, but the Thasian analogue could absolutely be the "land under the thumb of some evil", as they are currently punitively occupied by the Athenian analogue - so that engages the Fighter/Champion dedicated to Justice and whose whole character backstory and concept is about resisting corrupt government, the Paladin of Protection, who can protect the people against oppressive govenment.
Now ... if I tie in the Warlock's Patron as having a hand in, or influencing the War - either using the creatures that the Ranger is likely to be embarking on a war again, or opposing them as it wanted to solidify its influence over the region ( depending on whether I want the Warlock and Ranger finding themselves on the same, or opposite sides ), disappear some of the Bard's family into the region as they flee the shadow war of the thieves guild ...
I think I might just have hit upon my first major campaign arc, centered around war, justice, oppression, family, revenge, and redemption.
Cool! :D
Thanks for your input! :D
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
One idea I had while reading your Paladin's story....is to tease at their deity possibly losing faith in them as their champion.
Like, if you keep throwing more and more saving people quests into it, the Paladin might start leaning towards 'I am the best Paladin ever' internally while still trying to show that humble side, which could make the humble talking sound fake. The deity could easily determine this, and such could decide that a lesson in true humility would be needed to put the Paladin back on the right path. Slowly, as the Paladin keeps calling on the deity and his holy powers, they start becoming harder and harder to access, which could lead him to deciding he needs to visit a temple or something to commune with his deity. On this attempt, the deity could become quiet, confusing the Paladin. Later on, the Paladin has a vision or some sort from the deity, scorning them for their feign on humility; stating that maybe the Paladin has much more to learn. This can give a bit of a longer term mission and possibly the Paladin being more careful on their actions going forward, doing more to please the deity and helping others, rather than doing these actions for the internal ego. Possibly, a reward from the deity at the end of the quest after an epic moment from the Paladin, maybe resulting in a cool unique weapon directly gifted.
Just a thought or two I had while reading it :)