Also, can you post a link or quote anything that supports this assumption about how spells travel? Specifically those that deal with teleportation. I'd like to see what I'm missing.
Oddly enough, misty step has a target of self and thus might not be blocked (depends whether the teleportation is an 'effect extending through the dome'), though this is rarely relevant to tiny hut since it's opaque. However, dimension door targets a location.
The rules for targeting spells is given in the PHB, and specifies a clear path to the target. Nothing in dimension door alters that rule.
Oddly enough, misty step has a target of self and thus might not be blocked (depends whether the teleportation is an 'effect extending through the dome'), though this is rarely relevant to tiny hut since it's opaque. However, dimension door targets a location.
The rules for targeting spells is given in the PHB, and specifies a clear path to the target. Nothing in dimension door alters that rule.
Save that you target yourself and up to one willing participant with Dimension Door. You will find that in the spell description. The destination is neither a target, nor a path. When you use a spell like fireball, you target a destination, aka "spot you can see".
The rule you cited says NOTHING about a straight line. Only a clear path.
Sadly, you know and understand all of this.
You're making up assumptions, and they're horribly inaccurate. I would be fascinated to witness Magic Missle with these assumptions.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Save that you target yourself and up to one willing participant with Dimension Door. You will find that in the spell description. The destination is neither a target, nor a path.
Dimension door has 'range: 500 feet', not 'range: self', so yes, the destination is the target.
Save that you target yourself and up to one willing participant with Dimension Door. You will find that in the spell description. The destination is neither a target, nor a path.
Dimension door has 'range: 500 feet', not 'range: self', so yes, the destination is the target.
It can be a place you can see, one you can visualize, or one you can describe by stating distance and direction, such as "200 feet straight downward" or "upward to the northwest at a 45- degree angle, 300 feet."
Please explain how you reconcile the very clear rules for picking a destination given by dimension door with your attempts to claim it can be thwarted by total cover
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Please explain how you reconcile the very clear rules for picking a destination given by dimension door with your attempts to claim it can be thwarted by total cover
Singularly poor writing.
I would also note that it doesn't matter very much, since almost anyone who can cast dimension door can also cast dispel magic.
Please explain how you reconcile the very clear rules for picking a destination given by dimension door with your attempts to claim it can be thwarted by total cover
Singularly poor writing.
So any spell with wording that invalidates your argument is "singularly poor wording". How convenient
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
So any spell with wording that invalidates your argument is "singularly poor wording". How convenient
No, WotC actually miswrote the spell; it doesn't do what they want it to do. Also, the original reason I was pointing out that block was 'proof spells go in straight lines'.
Dimension door has 'range: 500 feet', not 'range: self', so yes, the destination is the target.
Nope. Destination has to be in range. Target (aka: subject of teleportation) is self, plus a possible +1 that is same size or smaller, and willing. Please do try to read the entire text block, not just the part that supports your confirmation bias. I'm gonna do you a solid and help you with the Targets definition. In our discussion here, we're not talking about the area of effect, but the path that one travels when teleported. Think of this as moving without using Dash, or movement speed. It's almost like you magically disappear from one point, or space, and reappear in another - instantly.
Here's a quick shortcut:
Targets -
A typical spell requires you to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell’s magic. A spell’s description tells you whether the spell targets [creatures], [objects], or a [point of origin for an area of effect] (described below). - Three separate categories of targets. We're working with creatures.
Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all. An effect like crackling lightning is obvious, but a more subtle effect, such as an attempt to read a creature’s thoughts, typically goes unnoticed, unless a spell says otherwise.
No, WotC actually miswrote the spell; it doesn't do what they want it to do. Also, the original reason I was pointing out that block was 'proof spells go in straight lines'.
, ? (wait, whut?) Listen Gus, I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that you have some rare and austere source for you to make this claim. Why not just lead with the link? Seriously - pics or it didn't happen. Otherwise, this is gonna go down with the story about a SO that's from Canada, that no one would know, blah, blah, blah.... I'll even accept something from J.Crawford and the S.A.C.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
, ? (wait, whut?) Listen Gus, I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that you have some rare and austere source for you to make this claim. Why not just lead with the link? Seriously - pics or it didn't happen. Otherwise, this is gonna go down with the story about a SO that's from Canada, that no one would know, blah, blah, blah.... I'll even accept something from J.Crawford and the S.A.C.
It has a range of 500'. The only way that can be reconciled with the text of the spell is that the target is an area -- specifically, it's the area you appear in. Otherwise, it should be range self or touch.
So any spell with wording that invalidates your argument is "singularly poor wording". How convenient
No, WotC actually miswrote the spell; it doesn't do what they want it to do.
I just did a quick search of the forums, and you seem to be the only person who doesn't think dimension door works exactly the way it says it does
But again, this comes back to WotC not being the problem here. Spells do what you say they do in your game, my dude. If you think tiny hut is too powerful or dimension door is somehow busted, then just decide to change them. Make the decision that tiny hut works the way everyone here is telling you it works. Make the decision that dimension door actually takes a character where they visualize going without needing to worry about total cover
Or, y'know, keep banning some spells that are just fine and nerfing others into oblivion for no other reason than you prefer passing the buck onto someone else for your own choices
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I just did a quick search of the forums, and you seem to be the only person who doesn't think dimension door works exactly the way it says it does
I can tell you I agree with Panta. It's absolutely clear that, RAW, Dimension Door targets your destination, unlike Misty Step, which targets the caster. You can tell because the Distant Spell metamagic works on Dimension Door but not on Misty Step. What the visualization text does is guarantee you can Dimension Door while blinded or otherwise unable to see, not guarantee that you can teleport through solid objects like a brick wall.
But this is the DM advice forum, not the Rules forum - just popping up to demonstrate that at least two people agree that "the target of a spell must be within the spell's range" is the RAW. I fully agree that it makes sense to reconcile Dimension Door and Misty Step so that teleportation behaves more consistently, so allowing all teleportation spells to ignore total cover or banning them all from doing so are both perfectly acceptable house rules.
I think it doesn't come up much because the RAW is so obviously stupid that people ignore it. I'm not sure why everyone is so fixated on whether or not it stops dimension door, though; mid to high level casters have plenty of ways of dealing with a hut. The problem is with what it does to non-spellcasting enemies. Now, for higher tier "enemies that don't have spellcasting capabilities are irrelevant" is consistent with a lot of other mechanics, but that's really more intended to be a tier 3/4 phenomenon, not a tier 2.
I am not a fan of the spell mostly for the reason that it presents a cost free way of negating some fun adventure challenges (resting in a dangerous area). I was running a mega-dungeon with lots of wandering zombies and rats and stuff. But they were all negated by the Tiny Hut, but I was trying to play as close to RAW as possible. The only limitations I put on it were: you couldn't fire missile weapons out of the hut (if you are going to fight you need to put yourself at risk), and there needed to be an open enough area to cast the spell (they routinely wanted to rest in 10ft wide corridors). They didn't just use it for long rests. They used it for short rests, pretty much anytime they were not on the move, they used it as a "home base" before a fight (although that did prevent their wizard from participating). If you are not in a rush, why ever leave the tiny hut. I tried to describe the tedium, but they didn't care.
For my most recent campaign, I have made some other mods - the material component is now a specially made 2-person tent that costs 100gp weighs 20lbs. AND I have a general rule about ritual spells - any spell cast as a ritual requires concentration throughout its casting and duration. This latter rule means casters who want the Tiny Hut will want to prepare it (a small but not insignificant cost). This also helps with some other previous "cost free" spells that negate challenges" like water breathing or forbiddance.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Oddly enough, misty step has a target of self and thus might not be blocked (depends whether the teleportation is an 'effect extending through the dome'), though this is rarely relevant to tiny hut since it's opaque. However, dimension door targets a location.
The rules for targeting spells is given in the PHB, and specifies a clear path to the target. Nothing in dimension door alters that rule.
Save that you target yourself and up to one willing participant with Dimension Door. You will find that in the spell description. The destination is neither a target, nor a path. When you use a spell like fireball, you target a destination, aka "spot you can see".
The rule you cited says NOTHING about a straight line. Only a clear path.
Sadly, you know and understand all of this.
You're making up assumptions, and they're horribly inaccurate. I would be fascinated to witness Magic Missle with these assumptions.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Dimension door has 'range: 500 feet', not 'range: self', so yes, the destination is the target.
Please explain how you reconcile the very clear rules for picking a destination given by dimension door with your attempts to claim it can be thwarted by total cover
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Singularly poor writing.
I would also note that it doesn't matter very much, since almost anyone who can cast dimension door can also cast dispel magic.
So any spell with wording that invalidates your argument is "singularly poor wording". How convenient
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
No, WotC actually miswrote the spell; it doesn't do what they want it to do. Also, the original reason I was pointing out that block was 'proof spells go in straight lines'.
Nope. Destination has to be in range. Target (aka: subject of teleportation) is self, plus a possible +1 that is same size or smaller, and willing. Please do try to read the entire text block, not just the part that supports your confirmation bias. I'm gonna do you a solid and help you with the Targets definition. In our discussion here, we're not talking about the area of effect, but the path that one travels when teleported. Think of this as moving without using Dash, or movement speed. It's almost like you magically disappear from one point, or space, and reappear in another - instantly.
Here's a quick shortcut:
Targets -
A typical spell requires you to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell’s magic. A spell’s description tells you whether the spell targets [creatures], [objects], or a [point of origin for an area of effect] (described below). - Three separate categories of targets. We're working with creatures.
Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all. An effect like crackling lightning is obvious, but a more subtle effect, such as an attempt to read a creature’s thoughts, typically goes unnoticed, unless a spell says otherwise.
, ? (wait, whut?) Listen Gus, I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that you have some rare and austere source for you to make this claim. Why not just lead with the link? Seriously - pics or it didn't happen. Otherwise, this is gonna go down with the story about a SO that's from Canada, that no one would know, blah, blah, blah.... I'll even accept something from J.Crawford and the S.A.C.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
It has a range of 500'. The only way that can be reconciled with the text of the spell is that the target is an area -- specifically, it's the area you appear in. Otherwise, it should be range self or touch.
I just did a quick search of the forums, and you seem to be the only person who doesn't think dimension door works exactly the way it says it does
But again, this comes back to WotC not being the problem here. Spells do what you say they do in your game, my dude. If you think tiny hut is too powerful or dimension door is somehow busted, then just decide to change them. Make the decision that tiny hut works the way everyone here is telling you it works. Make the decision that dimension door actually takes a character where they visualize going without needing to worry about total cover
Or, y'know, keep banning some spells that are just fine and nerfing others into oblivion for no other reason than you prefer passing the buck onto someone else for your own choices
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I can tell you I agree with Panta. It's absolutely clear that, RAW, Dimension Door targets your destination, unlike Misty Step, which targets the caster. You can tell because the Distant Spell metamagic works on Dimension Door but not on Misty Step. What the visualization text does is guarantee you can Dimension Door while blinded or otherwise unable to see, not guarantee that you can teleport through solid objects like a brick wall.
But this is the DM advice forum, not the Rules forum - just popping up to demonstrate that at least two people agree that "the target of a spell must be within the spell's range" is the RAW. I fully agree that it makes sense to reconcile Dimension Door and Misty Step so that teleportation behaves more consistently, so allowing all teleportation spells to ignore total cover or banning them all from doing so are both perfectly acceptable house rules.
I think it doesn't come up much because the RAW is so obviously stupid that people ignore it. I'm not sure why everyone is so fixated on whether or not it stops dimension door, though; mid to high level casters have plenty of ways of dealing with a hut. The problem is with what it does to non-spellcasting enemies. Now, for higher tier "enemies that don't have spellcasting capabilities are irrelevant" is consistent with a lot of other mechanics, but that's really more intended to be a tier 3/4 phenomenon, not a tier 2.
I am not a fan of the spell mostly for the reason that it presents a cost free way of negating some fun adventure challenges (resting in a dangerous area). I was running a mega-dungeon with lots of wandering zombies and rats and stuff. But they were all negated by the Tiny Hut, but I was trying to play as close to RAW as possible. The only limitations I put on it were: you couldn't fire missile weapons out of the hut (if you are going to fight you need to put yourself at risk), and there needed to be an open enough area to cast the spell (they routinely wanted to rest in 10ft wide corridors). They didn't just use it for long rests. They used it for short rests, pretty much anytime they were not on the move, they used it as a "home base" before a fight (although that did prevent their wizard from participating). If you are not in a rush, why ever leave the tiny hut. I tried to describe the tedium, but they didn't care.
For my most recent campaign, I have made some other mods - the material component is now a specially made 2-person tent that costs 100gp weighs 20lbs.
AND I have a general rule about ritual spells - any spell cast as a ritual requires concentration throughout its casting and duration. This latter rule means casters who want the Tiny Hut will want to prepare it (a small but not insignificant cost). This also helps with some other previous "cost free" spells that negate challenges" like water breathing or forbiddance.