I've typically been ambivalent about Tiny Hut but I've really been thinking about it and I just don't think it can be justified. I fully appreciate a spell that allows the PC's to rest in safely, though considering Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion being 7th, I feel a third level spell should really only defend an hour's worth of sleep (maybe something like Rope Trick, a short termed extradimensional space). Tiny Hut is not just used for sleeping, it has the ability to be used as the ultimate fall back defense, serving as a combo Wall of Force and Globe of Invulnerability. Not only that but it lasts for 8 hours and no concentration, as opposed to 10 minutes and 1 minute with Concentration respectively. Arguably neither Wall of Force or Globe of Invulnerability are subject to Dispelling (though Wall of Force can be destroyed with Disentegration) but again, it is a more powerful combo of the two. Is this really a spell that can be considered defensible in terms of Balance? The casting time of 1 minute or 11 Ritually is an easy work around for clever players that, as I suggested, will use it as the ultimate fall back point, allowing all of their own spells and attacks to pass through while foiling the same from without, all but Dispel Magic which can be counterspelled (60' range notwithstanding).
Edit: I'm sure this is one of multiple threads that have been brought up in relation to the arguably broken nature of this 3rd level spell, but I also wanted a current line of thinking.
Well, I take most of the Tiny Hut literally... so it is a dome, which means half sphere, no floor, so you could tunnel into it. Further, only creatures and objects cannot get into the dome, and it blocks spells or magical effects. The interior keeps also only weather effects out. So, just bulding a bonfire around the dome, might get interesting effects, the flames can get into the dome. The dome should also not block flooding, as the rising water is not an object and also not a weather effect.
I know, this interpretation might be controversial, but I think, fair.
It has a casting time of 1-minute, which precludes most uses of Wall of Force. We got into an impromptu fight with a dragon and some other creature in a tower. I used Wall of Force to keep the dragon out while we finished off his buddy. Tiny Hut won't do that. Sure, you wouldn't use Wall of Force because it has a higher slot, but that's the point - use use Tiny Hut for camping for the night because it requires a lower level slot, you use Wall of Force when you desperately need that barrier up NOW, but at the cost of a higher slot.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Tiny hut is one of those spells that just screws up the game so much; it's effectively an indestructible 10 foot sphere that can effectively block corridors, passages, bridges, ledges and any other direction you don't want people coming from. This iss of course on top of how it absolutely guarantees that you can have a long rest pretty much whenever you feel like it so 10 minute work day.
I'd hope that going forward in 6rh they address these problems with it.
Unfortunately based on what I supposed would be called design philosophy (?) I don't see myself buying 6e, but I defiilnitely appreciate opinions that either agree with me on the spell, or provide good arguments and showcase areas I may have missed that demonstrate Tiny Huts legitimacy.
Like to be fair, 6th is still two years out so there is still a lot of wiggle room; the initial play test materials for 5th were a very different beast then what we got at launch.
Unfortunately based on what I supposed would be called design philosophy (?) I don't see myself buying 6e, but I defiilnitely appreciate opinions that either agree with me on the spell, or provide good arguments and showcase areas I may have missed that demonstrate Tiny Huts legitimacy.
If you disagree with what I said, that's fair enough; feel free to explain why. There's no need for snideness.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Unfortunately based on what I supposed would be called design philosophy (?) I don't see myself buying 6e, but I defiilnitely appreciate opinions that either agree with me on the spell, or provide good arguments and showcase areas I may have missed that demonstrate Tiny Huts legitimacy.
If you disagree with what I said, that's fair enough; feel free to explain why. There's no need for snideness.
What the hell? I was replying directly to Ashla_Mason. I read your post and kinda marked it as something to add to the pro/con reasons for the spell, but I wasn't even thinking about your post when I made mine. I don't even see how you could interpret my post as snide or such.
BTW, @Ashla, just want to say I get what your saying and the only reason I put more in about 6e concerns than the spell was because it's been on my mind. Obviously the thread is more about keeping, altering, or removing from a personal game.
allowing all of their own spells and attacks to pass through
Yes, if you ignore the text of a spell to make it more powerful, then it's going to seem overpowered for its level
Nine creatures of Medium size or smaller can fit inside the dome with you. The spell fails if its area includes a larger creature or more than nine creatures. Creatures and objects within the dome when you cast this spell can move through it freely. All other creatures and objects are barred from passing through it. Spells and other magical effects can't extend through the dome or be cast through it. The atmosphere inside the space is comfortable and dry, regardless of the weather outside.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
allowing all of their own spells and attacks to pass through
Yes, if you ignore the text of a spell to make it more powerful, then it's going to seem overpowered for its level
Nine creatures of Medium size or smaller can fit inside the dome with you. The spell fails if its area includes a larger creature or more than nine creatures. Creatures and objects within the dome when you cast this spell can move through it freely. All other creatures and objects are barred from passing through it. Spells and other magical effects can't extend through the dome or be cast through it. The atmosphere inside the space is comfortable and dry, regardless of the weather outside.
From where I'm standing, tiny hut is one of those spells that needs a rework; either it needs to be elevated to a much higher level or it needs to be less of an invincible power dome. Or attatch expendable components that have a fee that makes it less spammable.
Tiny Hut is wildly overpowered for its level, particularly given that it's a ritual. It's not a spell you cast in combat, but if you have the opportunity to prepare it tends to be an automatic win button against any foes that don't have dispel magic.
The easy fix is to just revert it to what it did in previous editions: Leomund's Tiny Hut (level 3) protects from weather, Leomund's Secure Shelter (level 4) creates a (lockable) building, with all the normal limitations and vulnerabilities of buildings (for example, you can't walk through the wall, attack, and walk back).
Like, the thing I'm thinking about with tiny hut is that If I'm doing a dungeon crawl and want to be sure that I'm not going to get ambushed the smart play is to ritual cast this spell in intersections to prevent people from coming up behind me.
Like, the thing I'm thinking about with tiny hut is that If I'm doing a dungeon crawl and want to be sure that I'm not going to get ambushed the smart play is to ritual cast this spell in intersections to prevent people from coming up behind me.
The spell collapses if the caster leaves its area.
if you have the opportunity to prepare it tends to be an automatic win button against any foes that don't have dispel magic.
Only against DMs who play monsters poorly/dumbly
If the party wants to sit in the dome for eight hours while their enemies gather and plan for the moment when it drops, they're welcome to, but that's far from an "automatic win button"
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Like, the thing I'm thinking about with tiny hut is that If I'm doing a dungeon crawl and want to be sure that I'm not going to get ambushed the smart play is to ritual cast this spell in intersections to prevent people from coming up behind me.
The caster has to remain in the hut, or it disappears. You can't just drop one at every intersection and go on your merry way
Like, almost every one of these "complaints" is already addressed by the text of the spell you're complaining about. The problem here isn't tiny hut
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Reread the spell. If you leave the area of the spell it ends. So essentially you only get to cast one at a time.
Plus If I run across a tiny hut guess who is camping out next to it to see who is home?
The spell essentially parks you in one place with no defense once it ends. Anyone outside can rest just as long and prep just as much.
As for defeating it a simple cantrip like mold earth can dig under it and remove all the dirt under it real quick. Once the bottom is open a fireball works wonders.
Of levitate a huge rock or just a bunch of heavy rocks or trees onto the top. Dome goes away and down they come.
It is essentially just a good tent against the elements and wandering normal animals.
If you could not defeat it your not thinking hard enough. Or your not very patient.
The only thing that makes it good is it's a ritual spell so if all your slots are used you can still protect yourself from the weather. Which is the only way I use it.
One of the issues with the counters (beyond Dispel Magic which is not a guarantee for wherever you go) is the assumption that the Dungeon will just field a small army outside the dome. Not only do some dungeons lack an infinite spawn point for monsters, there's also the question of spacing and the general challenge of the monsters. Most Parties will easily decimate even very deadly encounters if that's all they have to do that day. So monsters that pile up will get vaporized. The argument against that that I can see is Players only benefiting from a Long Rest once in every twenty-four hour period.
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I've typically been ambivalent about Tiny Hut but I've really been thinking about it and I just don't think it can be justified. I fully appreciate a spell that allows the PC's to rest in safely, though considering Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion being 7th, I feel a third level spell should really only defend an hour's worth of sleep (maybe something like Rope Trick, a short termed extradimensional space). Tiny Hut is not just used for sleeping, it has the ability to be used as the ultimate fall back defense, serving as a combo Wall of Force and Globe of Invulnerability. Not only that but it lasts for 8 hours and no concentration, as opposed to 10 minutes and 1 minute with Concentration respectively. Arguably neither Wall of Force or Globe of Invulnerability are subject to Dispelling (though Wall of Force can be destroyed with Disentegration) but again, it is a more powerful combo of the two. Is this really a spell that can be considered defensible in terms of Balance? The casting time of 1 minute or 11 Ritually is an easy work around for clever players that, as I suggested, will use it as the ultimate fall back point, allowing all of their own spells and attacks to pass through while foiling the same from without, all but Dispel Magic which can be counterspelled (60' range notwithstanding).
Edit: I'm sure this is one of multiple threads that have been brought up in relation to the arguably broken nature of this 3rd level spell, but I also wanted a current line of thinking.
Well, I take most of the Tiny Hut literally... so it is a dome, which means half sphere, no floor, so you could tunnel into it. Further, only creatures and objects cannot get into the dome, and it blocks spells or magical effects. The interior keeps also only weather effects out. So, just bulding a bonfire around the dome, might get interesting effects, the flames can get into the dome. The dome should also not block flooding, as the rising water is not an object and also not a weather effect.
I know, this interpretation might be controversial, but I think, fair.
It has a casting time of 1-minute, which precludes most uses of Wall of Force. We got into an impromptu fight with a dragon and some other creature in a tower. I used Wall of Force to keep the dragon out while we finished off his buddy. Tiny Hut won't do that. Sure, you wouldn't use Wall of Force because it has a higher slot, but that's the point - use use Tiny Hut for camping for the night because it requires a lower level slot, you use Wall of Force when you desperately need that barrier up NOW, but at the cost of a higher slot.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Tiny hut is one of those spells that just screws up the game so much; it's effectively an indestructible 10 foot sphere that can effectively block corridors, passages, bridges, ledges and any other direction you don't want people coming from. This iss of course on top of how it absolutely guarantees that you can have a long rest pretty much whenever you feel like it so 10 minute work day.
I'd hope that going forward in 6rh they address these problems with it.
Unfortunately based on what I supposed would be called design philosophy (?) I don't see myself buying 6e, but I defiilnitely appreciate opinions that either agree with me on the spell, or provide good arguments and showcase areas I may have missed that demonstrate Tiny Huts legitimacy.
Like to be fair, 6th is still two years out so there is still a lot of wiggle room; the initial play test materials for 5th were a very different beast then what we got at launch.
If you disagree with what I said, that's fair enough; feel free to explain why. There's no need for snideness.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
What the hell? I was replying directly to Ashla_Mason. I read your post and kinda marked it as something to add to the pro/con reasons for the spell, but I wasn't even thinking about your post when I made mine. I don't even see how you could interpret my post as snide or such.
BTW, @Ashla, just want to say I get what your saying and the only reason I put more in about 6e concerns than the spell was because it's been on my mind. Obviously the thread is more about keeping, altering, or removing from a personal game.
Yes, if you ignore the text of a spell to make it more powerful, then it's going to seem overpowered for its level
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Now see, this? *This* is snide and patronizing.
From where I'm standing, tiny hut is one of those spells that needs a rework; either it needs to be elevated to a much higher level or it needs to be less of an invincible power dome. Or attatch expendable components that have a fee that makes it less spammable.
Tiny Hut is wildly overpowered for its level, particularly given that it's a ritual. It's not a spell you cast in combat, but if you have the opportunity to prepare it tends to be an automatic win button against any foes that don't have dispel magic.
The easy fix is to just revert it to what it did in previous editions: Leomund's Tiny Hut (level 3) protects from weather, Leomund's Secure Shelter (level 4) creates a (lockable) building, with all the normal limitations and vulnerabilities of buildings (for example, you can't walk through the wall, attack, and walk back).
Like, the thing I'm thinking about with tiny hut is that If I'm doing a dungeon crawl and want to be sure that I'm not going to get ambushed the smart play is to ritual cast this spell in intersections to prevent people from coming up behind me.
The spell collapses if the caster leaves its area.
Only against DMs who play monsters poorly/dumbly
If the party wants to sit in the dome for eight hours while their enemies gather and plan for the moment when it drops, they're welcome to, but that's far from an "automatic win button"
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The caster has to remain in the hut, or it disappears. You can't just drop one at every intersection and go on your merry way
Like, almost every one of these "complaints" is already addressed by the text of the spell you're complaining about. The problem here isn't tiny hut
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
My bad.
The spell is exactly like Leomunds tiny hut.
Reread the spell. If you leave the area of the spell it ends. So essentially you only get to cast one at a time.
Plus If I run across a tiny hut guess who is camping out next to it to see who is home?
The spell essentially parks you in one place with no defense once it ends. Anyone outside can rest just as long and prep just as much.
As for defeating it a simple cantrip like mold earth can dig under it and remove all the dirt under it real quick. Once the bottom is open a fireball works wonders.
Of levitate a huge rock or just a bunch of heavy rocks or trees onto the top. Dome goes away and down they come.
It is essentially just a good tent against the elements and wandering normal animals.
If you could not defeat it your not thinking hard enough. Or your not very patient.
The only thing that makes it good is it's a ritual spell so if all your slots are used you can still protect yourself from the weather. Which is the only way I use it.
One of the issues with the counters (beyond Dispel Magic which is not a guarantee for wherever you go) is the assumption that the Dungeon will just field a small army outside the dome. Not only do some dungeons lack an infinite spawn point for monsters, there's also the question of spacing and the general challenge of the monsters. Most Parties will easily decimate even very deadly encounters if that's all they have to do that day. So monsters that pile up will get vaporized. The argument against that that I can see is Players only benefiting from a Long Rest once in every twenty-four hour period.