I have a player in my game who is planning to multiclass (they just hit level 3), and are wanting to go Tempest Cleric. Currently they are a Barbarian and plan to choose the Totem subclass with a focus on Bear. Nothing wrong so far, except that they asked for the ability to shift from the Shifter race (they're a Goliath) in exchange for the Cleric's heavy armor proficiency. Honestly, to me it sounds really broken to give up just a proficiency for the shifting, but wonder how other DMs would rule?
At my table it's a homebrew setting for the campaign, but rules-wise I'm trying to keep it core plus allowing some Critical Role content. Which I did make clear to all of my players from the beginning.
I'm considering offering the Lycanthropy rules or the Blood Hunter, Order of the Lycan as alternatives for the character to still be able to shift, but with appropriate setbacks to keep it from being OP. But again, would like some additional input from other DMs.
Nothing wrong so far, except that they asked for the ability to shift from the Shifter race (they're a Goliath) in exchange for the Cleric's heavy armor proficiency. Honestly, to me it sounds really broken to give up just a proficiency for the shifting, but wonder how other DMs would rule?
I agree with you.
Check out "Creating New Character Options" in the DMG for some inspiration. There are places where they discuss creating and modifying existing races and classes, questions you should ask yourself, that kind of thing. You may draw your own conclusions, but from my reading of that material and my own experience, I would say an armor proficiency is worth about half of a racial ability like shifting.
I have a player in my game who is planning to multiclass (they just hit level 3), and are wanting to go Tempest Cleric. Currently they are a Barbarian and plan to choose the Totem subclass with a focus on Bear. Nothing wrong so far, except that they asked for the ability to shift from the Shifter race (they're a Goliath) in exchange for the Cleric's heavy armor proficiency. Honestly, to me it sounds really broken to give up just a proficiency for the shifting, but wonder how other DMs would rule?
At my table it's a homebrew setting for the campaign, but rules-wise I'm trying to keep it core plus allowing some Critical Role content. Which I did make clear to all of my players from the beginning.
I'm considering offering the Lycanthropy rules or the Blood Hunter, Order of the Lycan as alternatives for the character to still be able to shift, but with appropriate setbacks to keep it from being OP. But again, would like some additional input from other DMs.
Thank you!
This is already going to be a very non-optimized multiclass -- as a barb, they're not going to be able to rage and cast/concentrate on those lightning and thunder spells tempest clerics love so much, or heal during combat, etc. -- so on the one hand, I wouldn't be too worried about them trying to get away with something broken. They're just seeing a feature they won't use (the armor proficiency) and trying to replace it with something that fits their character better
On the other hand, treating class and race features as interchangeable isn't a precedent you want to set in your campaigns. I'd talk further with the player to figure out what it is they want out of the shifting ability, and either homebrew a barb subclass that includes that feature or something like it (which sounds like a mix of Totem Warrior and Beast), or build the introduction of those abilities into the campaign. Have them go on a side quest to discover where these abilities come from/how to control them once they start to emerge, or introduce some lycanthropy or a homebrewed Cloak of Shifting into your world, something like that. A homebrew feat can handle the mechanics, but if they want something extra for their character, make their character earn it
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Sounds like you really need to talk to the player…. I’ve used intelligent items in the past that offer new powers if the player is willing to lose a proficiency. It’s worked well for divine classes as I normally homebrew the item to be something from their deity and tie it in with their religious practices.
There has to be a trade off though, sure the PC gets what they want, but it comes with conditions to appease their deity.
Like AntonSirius said, make the character earn it! Go somewhere dangerous, build a temple, worship this way or that way… you can use it as an opportunity to get some fun role play out of the player and drop some adventure hooks.
I wouldn’t let them, either. Giving up the heavy armor, which they wouldn’t actually use anyway since they’re barb, isn’t actually giving up anything. They’re getting something for nothing.
I thought that you only get some of the proficiencies when multiclassing anyway, and heavy armour was not one of them for a Cleric?
Page 164 of the Players Handbook has a chart, multiclassing into Cleric only gives you Light Armour, Medium Armour, and Shields. Barbarians already have this - the player would not gain any proficiencies at all from multiclassing!
I have a player in my game who is planning to multiclass (they just hit level 3), and are wanting to go Tempest Cleric. Currently they are a Barbarian and plan to choose the Totem subclass with a focus on Bear. Nothing wrong so far, except that they asked for the ability to shift from the Shifter race (they're a Goliath) in exchange for the Cleric's heavy armor proficiency. Honestly, to me it sounds really broken to give up just a proficiency for the shifting, but wonder how other DMs would rule?
At my table it's a homebrew setting for the campaign, but rules-wise I'm trying to keep it core plus allowing some Critical Role content. Which I did make clear to all of my players from the beginning.
I'm considering offering the Lycanthropy rules or the Blood Hunter, Order of the Lycan as alternatives for the character to still be able to shift, but with appropriate setbacks to keep it from being OP. But again, would like some additional input from other DMs.
Thank you!
I agree with you.
Check out "Creating New Character Options" in the DMG for some inspiration. There are places where they discuss creating and modifying existing races and classes, questions you should ask yourself, that kind of thing. You may draw your own conclusions, but from my reading of that material and my own experience, I would say an armor proficiency is worth about half of a racial ability like shifting.
This is already going to be a very non-optimized multiclass -- as a barb, they're not going to be able to rage and cast/concentrate on those lightning and thunder spells tempest clerics love so much, or heal during combat, etc. -- so on the one hand, I wouldn't be too worried about them trying to get away with something broken. They're just seeing a feature they won't use (the armor proficiency) and trying to replace it with something that fits their character better
On the other hand, treating class and race features as interchangeable isn't a precedent you want to set in your campaigns. I'd talk further with the player to figure out what it is they want out of the shifting ability, and either homebrew a barb subclass that includes that feature or something like it (which sounds like a mix of Totem Warrior and Beast), or build the introduction of those abilities into the campaign. Have them go on a side quest to discover where these abilities come from/how to control them once they start to emerge, or introduce some lycanthropy or a homebrewed Cloak of Shifting into your world, something like that. A homebrew feat can handle the mechanics, but if they want something extra for their character, make their character earn it
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Sounds like you really need to talk to the player…. I’ve used intelligent items in the past that offer new powers if the player is willing to lose a proficiency. It’s worked well for divine classes as I normally homebrew the item to be something from their deity and tie it in with their religious practices.
There has to be a trade off though, sure the PC gets what they want, but it comes with conditions to appease their deity.
Like AntonSirius said, make the character earn it! Go somewhere dangerous, build a temple, worship this way or that way… you can use it as an opportunity to get some fun role play out of the player and drop some adventure hooks.
I wouldn’t let them, either. Giving up the heavy armor, which they wouldn’t actually use anyway since they’re barb, isn’t actually giving up anything. They’re getting something for nothing.
I thought that you only get some of the proficiencies when multiclassing anyway, and heavy armour was not one of them for a Cleric?
Page 164 of the Players Handbook has a chart, multiclassing into Cleric only gives you Light Armour, Medium Armour, and Shields. Barbarians already have this - the player would not gain any proficiencies at all from multiclassing!
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They should choose "Path of the Beast" if they want to transform into a bear rather than "totem warrior".
ThorukDuckSlayer, they’re wanting to go tempest cleric, which is what gets the heavy armor proficiency.
And thanks everyone for the advice. I am going to talk to them and throw out the path of the beast for barbarian subclass.