From the spell description it does not list any visual effects that might clue an enemy into knowing you are hasted and dispelling it.
However it obviously does add abilities that do buff movement, allow another hasted action, and dexterity (AC and DEX saves). This to me seems pretty subjective though as the enemies have no idea what your base abilities were to determine if they are actually being enhanced.
It also really hurts when being dispelled as you basically lose a round of combat (other than reactions it seems).
So how do you guys play this?
Scenario 1: Player(s) hastes themself prior to entering battle so the enemies do not see the spell at all.
Scenario 2: Player(s) hastes themselves in the middle of combat in full view of enemies.
My view on scenario 1 would be that there should not be a way for the enemies to actually know someone is hasted without actually trying to use the identify spell (1 min casting time) or possibly if they already have detect magic going and they would see only the school of magic present.
On scenario 2 maybe an arcana check to see the school of magic. In scenario 2 the enemies obviously would know that the PC buffed themselves with something.
Someone who is hasted is obviously moving at superhuman speed, though without something like detect magic it may not be apparent that the cause is an ability that can be dispelled.
I think, from a monster's point of view, whether or not someone is Hasted specifically is not the main issue. The main issue is "who is the greatest threat?" If the EFFECTS of Haste make a player stand out as a threat, then it doesn't matter the source of their abilities, the monster just sees that this player can run circles around the whole battlefield, can dodge incoming attacks like crazy, and has 3 attacks per turn. It would be logical then for the monster (if they're intelligent) to try and take that player out first, or at least attack them until they stop having those abilities.
If the enemy is very smart, or even a spellcaster themselves, they might see the abilities; super speed, supernatural dodging, super fast attacks, and surmise that they might be Hasted, and knowing how the spell works might try to interrupt the spell to lose them a turn, since that would be an intelligent enemy behaving intelligently.
But again, source of ability doesn't matter in this case, only threat level. If I'm the same evil spellcaster and a party of adventurers attacks me with a Hasted commoner in tow, I might notice the commoner seems supernaturally fast, but they're still a commoner and not really a threat to me, so regardless of whether I know they're Hasted or not, I would ignore them.
Someone who is hasted is obviously moving at superhuman speed, though without something like detect magic it may not be apparent that the cause is an ability that can be dispelled.
So let's discuss this super human speed. It doubles the movement which typically means going from 30 to 60 or something similar. Plenty of classes can move this speed or more. Does this mean you would cast dispel on them thinking they are hasted? What if the person hasted did not move the entire amount of the new movement?
It adds an extra haste action. Most likely a single attack. How do you know it is a class that normally has one attack that now has two? Fighters get up to four normal attacks. Would you cast dispel on someone using 3 or 4 attacks hoping they are hasted?
It adds 2 to your AC and gives you advantage on DEX saves. A shield adds 2 to AC and several things give advantage on DEX saves.
So I think most people in their head envision this creature almost blurring as it moves around. However by spell description it really never says this and the benefits it gives other classes can do as well or better without it...so do you really know?
Someone who is hasted is obviously moving at superhuman speed, though without something like detect magic it may not be apparent that the cause is an ability that can be dispelled.
So let's discuss this super human speed. It doubles the movement which typically means going from 30 to 60 or something similar. Plenty of classes can move this speed or more. Does this mean you would cast dispel on them thinking they are hasted?
Maybe? I rarely cast dispel magic in the first place, my usual standard for dispelling magic is doing large amounts of damage to the spellcaster to break their concentration.
Someone who is hasted is obviously moving at superhuman speed, though without something like detect magic it may not be apparent that the cause is an ability that can be dispelled.
So let's discuss this super human speed. It doubles the movement which typically means going from 30 to 60 or something similar. Plenty of classes can move this speed or more. Does this mean you would cast dispel on them thinking they are hasted?
Maybe? I rarely cast dispel magic in the first place, my usual standard for dispelling magic is doing large amounts of damage to the spellcaster to break their concentration.
True but Paladins and Rangers get this as well and would not fail as often with damage.
Someone who is hasted is obviously moving at superhuman speed, though without something like detect magic it may not be apparent that the cause is an ability that can be dispelled.
So let's discuss this super human speed. It doubles the movement which typically means going from 30 to 60 or something similar. Plenty of classes can move this speed or more. Does this mean you would cast dispel on them thinking they are hasted? What if the person hasted did not move the entire amount of the new movement?
It adds an extra haste action. Most likely a single attack. How do you know it is a class that normally has one attack that now has two? Fighters get up to four normal attacks. Would you cast dispel on someone using 3 or 4 attacks hoping they are hasted?
It adds 2 to your AC and gives you advantage on DEX saves. A shield adds 2 to AC and several things give advantage on DEX saves.
So I think most people in their head envision this creature almost blurring as it moves around. However by spell description it really never says this and the benefits it gives other classes can do as well or better without it...so do you really know?
If this is a player seeing how fast an enemy is and asking if they're Hasted, I would allow them to make an Arcana check to determine so. If they succeed, I'd just say that the player can tell the enemy is under the effects of hastening magics. If they fail, I'd just shrug and let them draw their own conclusions.
Someone who is hasted is obviously moving at superhuman speed, though without something like detect magic it may not be apparent that the cause is an ability that can be dispelled.
So let's discuss this super human speed. It doubles the movement which typically means going from 30 to 60 or something similar. Plenty of classes can move this speed or more. Does this mean you would cast dispel on them thinking they are hasted? What if the person hasted did not move the entire amount of the new movement?
It adds an extra haste action. Most likely a single attack. How do you know it is a class that normally has one attack that now has two? Fighters get up to four normal attacks. Would you cast dispel on someone using 3 or 4 attacks hoping they are hasted?
It adds 2 to your AC and gives you advantage on DEX saves. A shield adds 2 to AC and several things give advantage on DEX saves.
So I think most people in their head envision this creature almost blurring as it moves around. However by spell description it really never says this and the benefits it gives other classes can do as well or better without it...so do you really know?
If this is a player seeing how fast an enemy is and asking if they're Hasted, I would allow them to make an Arcana check to determine so. If they succeed, I'd just say that the player can tell the enemy is under the effects of hastening magics. If they fail, I'd just shrug and let them draw their own conclusions.
What about NPCs/Creatures that might have dispel magic?
True but Paladins and Rangers get this as well and would not fail as often with damage.
Neither paladin nor ranger is proficient at constitution saves by default, and by the time you're thinking about casting spells like that you're also reasonably subject to being hit with massive damage effects resulting in very high concentration save DCs, not to mention that concentration is automatically broken by being incapacitated. To be honest, haste is on my list of 'spells to probably not cast' -- spells with V,S,M components and duration 1 minute cannot realistically be cast before combat (trying to do so probably initiates combat) and the actual effect, while not bad, isn't really stronger than other spells that don't have bad side effects when your concentration is broken.
Someone who is hasted is obviously moving at superhuman speed, though without something like detect magic it may not be apparent that the cause is an ability that can be dispelled.
So let's discuss this super human speed. It doubles the movement which typically means going from 30 to 60 or something similar. Plenty of classes can move this speed or more. Does this mean you would cast dispel on them thinking they are hasted? What if the person hasted did not move the entire amount of the new movement?
It adds an extra haste action. Most likely a single attack. How do you know it is a class that normally has one attack that now has two? Fighters get up to four normal attacks. Would you cast dispel on someone using 3 or 4 attacks hoping they are hasted?
It adds 2 to your AC and gives you advantage on DEX saves. A shield adds 2 to AC and several things give advantage on DEX saves.
So I think most people in their head envision this creature almost blurring as it moves around. However by spell description it really never says this and the benefits it gives other classes can do as well or better without it...so do you really know?
If this is a player seeing how fast an enemy is and asking if they're Hasted, I would allow them to make an Arcana check to determine so. If they succeed, I'd just say that the player can tell the enemy is under the effects of hastening magics. If they fail, I'd just shrug and let them draw their own conclusions.
What about NPCs/Creatures that might have dispel magic?
Then I might have them, while analyzing the threat levels of the party and how to subvert them, roll an Arcana check behind the screen to see if they recognize the Haste spell.
In most cases though, Haste is being cast in combat, and they can just see it cast. Since it only has a duration of up to 1 minute, you can't often cast it THAT MUCH in advance if initiative being rolled, so usually the bad guy can see what's going on.
If the PC casts Haste in battle, then the enemies in sight should roll an Arcana Check (I actually have a separate Spellcraftskill in my game), assuming they have some knowledge of magic, to see what the spell is based on the verbal incantation (V), the somatic gesture of the hands (S), and the piece of licorice that is produced in the spells casting (M). With a high enough check, I would say the enemy could discern that this is the Haste spell. Again, provided that this is something the enemy would actually be familiar with.
If the PC casts Haste pre-battle, I wouldn't say there is any physical indicator of the spell. Don't forget that Haste only lasts one minute, so if the PC casts the spell pre-battle, then they essentially lose anywhere from 6-60 seconds of the spell before battle begins, depending on how fast the combat encounter is engaged. So, the pro to casting pre-battle is that you don't risk the enemy counterspelling/dispelling you, but the con is that you lose a portion of the spell's duration. As the DM, you should definitely enforce this as it makes choices matter.
If the PC wants to cast Haste but it takes their character 30 seconds to get through the door, down the hall, and into the chamber with enemies, then they should only be hasted for 30 seconds in combat as opposed to the full duration of 60 seconds, since they already used up part of that time. But on the flip side, all the enemy sees is a very fast and agile opponent enter the fray.
The flavor text of any spell should never be a 100% definite thing upon which you can base your rulings as players can re-flavor anything in a way they wish as long as it stays mechanically the same. I had this discussion with a friend DM recently about Pass without Trace and if Truesight could see through its effects as it states 'it gets cloaked in shadow'.
So you don't have to justify it based upon the flavor text of the spell.
In both scenarios I think it would be very logical for a spellcaster to dispel a haste effect. Think of it in this way, If one of your monsters had haste cast on them, you would probably tell your party that they seem to be moving unnaturally fast. If in another way your party would notice that they are hasted they would also be quick to dispel it. Also, Dispelling it takes a spellcasters' full action and a 3rd level spell slot. Which could otherwise be used to cast a fireball or something. So dispelling a haste effect isn't the most detrimental thing that could happen to them.
If your party finds it to be unfair that you dispel their haste spell, just throw a fireball on them instead. They have nearly identical requirements for casting including the range and the fact you don't have to see the target/point as long as its within range. If the spellcasters loses concentration on the spell they basically waste a turn being stunned (stunned right? I know there is some very detrimental thing that happens)
However, you do have to allow your players to do the same stuff to your monsters as you do to them. So if you allow your monsters to spot the fact that a character is under effect of a spell, you should allow your players to do the same against your monsters.
If your players find it illogical that an enemy would notice that a character is under the effects of a haste spell, you could explain to them that it would also be unfair if you put them up against enemies that were under the effect of the spell and you didn't tell the party because 'they wouldnt notice it'.
True but Paladins and Rangers get this as well and would not fail as often with damage.
Neither paladin nor ranger is proficient at constitution saves by default, and by the time you're thinking about casting spells like that you're also reasonably subject to being hit with massive damage effects resulting in very high concentration save DCs, not to mention that concentration is automatically broken by being incapacitated. To be honest, haste is on my list of 'spells to probably not cast' -- spells with V,S,M components and duration 1 minute cannot realistically be cast before combat (trying to do so probably initiates combat) and the actual effect, while not bad, isn't really stronger than other spells that don't have bad side effects when your concentration is broken.
Keep in mind that Paladins and Rangers typically have pretty high CON saves (esp Paladins). Also items can give haste without any components (potion of speed, Black Razor).
Someone who is hasted is obviously moving at superhuman speed, though without something like detect magic it may not be apparent that the cause is an ability that can be dispelled.
So let's discuss this super human speed. It doubles the movement which typically means going from 30 to 60 or something similar. Plenty of classes can move this speed or more. Does this mean you would cast dispel on them thinking they are hasted? What if the person hasted did not move the entire amount of the new movement?
It adds an extra haste action. Most likely a single attack. How do you know it is a class that normally has one attack that now has two? Fighters get up to four normal attacks. Would you cast dispel on someone using 3 or 4 attacks hoping they are hasted?
It adds 2 to your AC and gives you advantage on DEX saves. A shield adds 2 to AC and several things give advantage on DEX saves.
So I think most people in their head envision this creature almost blurring as it moves around. However by spell description it really never says this and the benefits it gives other classes can do as well or better without it...so do you really know?
If this is a player seeing how fast an enemy is and asking if they're Hasted, I would allow them to make an Arcana check to determine so. If they succeed, I'd just say that the player can tell the enemy is under the effects of hastening magics. If they fail, I'd just shrug and let them draw their own conclusions.
What about NPCs/Creatures that might have dispel magic?
Then I might have them, while analyzing the threat levels of the party and how to subvert them, roll an Arcana check behind the screen to see if they recognize the Haste spell.
In most cases though, Haste is being cast in combat, and they can just see it cast. Since it only has a duration of up to 1 minute, you can't often cast it THAT MUCH in advance if initiative being rolled, so usually the bad guy can see what's going on.
Think scenario of opening door knowing the bad guys are behind it and pre-hasting.
If the PC casts Haste in battle, then the enemies in sight should roll an Arcana Check (I actually have a separate Spellcraftskill in my game), assuming they have some knowledge of magic, to see what the spell is based on the verbal incantation (V), the somatic gesture of the hands (S), and the piece of licorice that is produced in the spells casting (M). With a high enough check, I would say the enemy could discern that this is the Haste spell. Again, provided that this is something the enemy would actually be familiar with.
If the PC casts Haste pre-battle, I wouldn't say there is any physical indicator of the spell. Don't forget that Haste only lasts one minute, so if the PC casts the spell pre-battle, then they essentially lose anywhere from 6-60 seconds of the spell before battle begins, depending on how fast the combat encounter is engaged. So, the pro to casting pre-battle is that you don't risk the enemy counterspelling/dispelling you, but the con is that you lose a portion of the spell's duration. As the DM, you should definitely enforce this as it makes choices matter.
If the PC wants to cast Haste but it takes their character 30 seconds to get through the door, down the hall, and into the chamber with enemies, then they should only be hasted for 30 seconds in combat as opposed to the full duration of 60 seconds, since they already used up part of that time. But on the flip side, all the enemy sees is a very fast and agile opponent enter the fray.
Pre-hasting or casting haste behind total cover is another option to think about...and some items give haste without any casting.
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Hello fellow DMs, I have a question on this.
From the spell description it does not list any visual effects that might clue an enemy into knowing you are hasted and dispelling it.
However it obviously does add abilities that do buff movement, allow another hasted action, and dexterity (AC and DEX saves). This to me seems pretty subjective though as the enemies have no idea what your base abilities were to determine if they are actually being enhanced.
It also really hurts when being dispelled as you basically lose a round of combat (other than reactions it seems).
So how do you guys play this?
Scenario 1: Player(s) hastes themself prior to entering battle so the enemies do not see the spell at all.
Scenario 2: Player(s) hastes themselves in the middle of combat in full view of enemies.
My view on scenario 1 would be that there should not be a way for the enemies to actually know someone is hasted without actually trying to use the identify spell (1 min casting time) or possibly if they already have detect magic going and they would see only the school of magic present.
On scenario 2 maybe an arcana check to see the school of magic. In scenario 2 the enemies obviously would know that the PC buffed themselves with something.
Curious on your thoughts.
Thanks!
Someone who is hasted is obviously moving at superhuman speed, though without something like detect magic it may not be apparent that the cause is an ability that can be dispelled.
I think, from a monster's point of view, whether or not someone is Hasted specifically is not the main issue. The main issue is "who is the greatest threat?" If the EFFECTS of Haste make a player stand out as a threat, then it doesn't matter the source of their abilities, the monster just sees that this player can run circles around the whole battlefield, can dodge incoming attacks like crazy, and has 3 attacks per turn. It would be logical then for the monster (if they're intelligent) to try and take that player out first, or at least attack them until they stop having those abilities.
If the enemy is very smart, or even a spellcaster themselves, they might see the abilities; super speed, supernatural dodging, super fast attacks, and surmise that they might be Hasted, and knowing how the spell works might try to interrupt the spell to lose them a turn, since that would be an intelligent enemy behaving intelligently.
But again, source of ability doesn't matter in this case, only threat level. If I'm the same evil spellcaster and a party of adventurers attacks me with a Hasted commoner in tow, I might notice the commoner seems supernaturally fast, but they're still a commoner and not really a threat to me, so regardless of whether I know they're Hasted or not, I would ignore them.
So let's discuss this super human speed. It doubles the movement which typically means going from 30 to 60 or something similar. Plenty of classes can move this speed or more. Does this mean you would cast dispel on them thinking they are hasted? What if the person hasted did not move the entire amount of the new movement?
It adds an extra haste action. Most likely a single attack. How do you know it is a class that normally has one attack that now has two? Fighters get up to four normal attacks. Would you cast dispel on someone using 3 or 4 attacks hoping they are hasted?
It adds 2 to your AC and gives you advantage on DEX saves. A shield adds 2 to AC and several things give advantage on DEX saves.
So I think most people in their head envision this creature almost blurring as it moves around. However by spell description it really never says this and the benefits it gives other classes can do as well or better without it...so do you really know?
Maybe? I rarely cast dispel magic in the first place, my usual standard for dispelling magic is doing large amounts of damage to the spellcaster to break their concentration.
True but Paladins and Rangers get this as well and would not fail as often with damage.
If this is a player seeing how fast an enemy is and asking if they're Hasted, I would allow them to make an Arcana check to determine so. If they succeed, I'd just say that the player can tell the enemy is under the effects of hastening magics. If they fail, I'd just shrug and let them draw their own conclusions.
What about NPCs/Creatures that might have dispel magic?
Neither paladin nor ranger is proficient at constitution saves by default, and by the time you're thinking about casting spells like that you're also reasonably subject to being hit with massive damage effects resulting in very high concentration save DCs, not to mention that concentration is automatically broken by being incapacitated. To be honest, haste is on my list of 'spells to probably not cast' -- spells with V,S,M components and duration 1 minute cannot realistically be cast before combat (trying to do so probably initiates combat) and the actual effect, while not bad, isn't really stronger than other spells that don't have bad side effects when your concentration is broken.
Then I might have them, while analyzing the threat levels of the party and how to subvert them, roll an Arcana check behind the screen to see if they recognize the Haste spell.
In most cases though, Haste is being cast in combat, and they can just see it cast. Since it only has a duration of up to 1 minute, you can't often cast it THAT MUCH in advance if initiative being rolled, so usually the bad guy can see what's going on.
I would highlight the importance of V, S, M here.
If the PC casts Haste in battle, then the enemies in sight should roll an Arcana Check (I actually have a separate Spellcraft skill in my game), assuming they have some knowledge of magic, to see what the spell is based on the verbal incantation (V), the somatic gesture of the hands (S), and the piece of licorice that is produced in the spells casting (M). With a high enough check, I would say the enemy could discern that this is the Haste spell. Again, provided that this is something the enemy would actually be familiar with.
If the PC casts Haste pre-battle, I wouldn't say there is any physical indicator of the spell. Don't forget that Haste only lasts one minute, so if the PC casts the spell pre-battle, then they essentially lose anywhere from 6-60 seconds of the spell before battle begins, depending on how fast the combat encounter is engaged. So, the pro to casting pre-battle is that you don't risk the enemy counterspelling/dispelling you, but the con is that you lose a portion of the spell's duration. As the DM, you should definitely enforce this as it makes choices matter.
If the PC wants to cast Haste but it takes their character 30 seconds to get through the door, down the hall, and into the chamber with enemies, then they should only be hasted for 30 seconds in combat as opposed to the full duration of 60 seconds, since they already used up part of that time. But on the flip side, all the enemy sees is a very fast and agile opponent enter the fray.
The flavor text of any spell should never be a 100% definite thing upon which you can base your rulings as players can re-flavor anything in a way they wish as long as it stays mechanically the same. I had this discussion with a friend DM recently about Pass without Trace and if Truesight could see through its effects as it states 'it gets cloaked in shadow'.
So you don't have to justify it based upon the flavor text of the spell.
In both scenarios I think it would be very logical for a spellcaster to dispel a haste effect. Think of it in this way, If one of your monsters had haste cast on them, you would probably tell your party that they seem to be moving unnaturally fast. If in another way your party would notice that they are hasted they would also be quick to dispel it.
Also, Dispelling it takes a spellcasters' full action and a 3rd level spell slot. Which could otherwise be used to cast a fireball or something. So dispelling a haste effect isn't the most detrimental thing that could happen to them.
If your party finds it to be unfair that you dispel their haste spell, just throw a fireball on them instead. They have nearly identical requirements for casting including the range and the fact you don't have to see the target/point as long as its within range. If the spellcasters loses concentration on the spell they basically waste a turn being stunned (stunned right? I know there is some very detrimental thing that happens)
However, you do have to allow your players to do the same stuff to your monsters as you do to them. So if you allow your monsters to spot the fact that a character is under effect of a spell, you should allow your players to do the same against your monsters.
If your players find it illogical that an enemy would notice that a character is under the effects of a haste spell, you could explain to them that it would also be unfair if you put them up against enemies that were under the effect of the spell and you didn't tell the party because 'they wouldnt notice it'.
I hope I made my point clear?
Keep in mind that Paladins and Rangers typically have pretty high CON saves (esp Paladins). Also items can give haste without any components (potion of speed, Black Razor).
Think scenario of opening door knowing the bad guys are behind it and pre-hasting.
Pre-hasting or casting haste behind total cover is another option to think about...and some items give haste without any casting.